t doesn't matter if the roofers were stoners, tweakers, or something else altogether, it is still impressive. I am in awe.
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t doesn't matter if the roofers were stoners, tweakers, or something else altogether, it is still impressive. I am in awe.
Not at all. If you're a stoner you know what stoner mistakes are.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/...thology.87982/
IIRC, he had reported use rates of 1 oz/week which is nuts. Not exactly a lightweight. No wonder he has a warped perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
This is the norm, not the exception. A majority of people don't even enjoy the opioid high, and among those who do most have no interest in chronic use (this holds true across all classes of drugs, too). Personally, I enjoy the opioid high, but only occasionally and in small doses. 5 mg of hydro/oxycodone makes for a very enjoyable Friday night, and then I won't even think about it for 2-4 weeks. 10 mg just means a night of sleepless tweaker itching and a constipation the next day. Grosses me out just thinking about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Bottom line is that actual addiction rates for opioids really are quite low. The vast majority of opioid addicts already had a history of alcohol and illicit drug use before they started opioids, and most received them from friends, family or dealers, not doctors. For those who do become addicted, it is generally not because of the inherent addictive power of the drug:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...not-the-cause/
The opioid epidemic says a lot more about the failure of American society to prevent child abuse and domestic violence, treat mental illness, and ensure a basic level of financial security than it says about opioids themselves.Quote:
If we want to reduce opioid addiction, we have to target the real risk factors for it: child trauma, mental illness and unemployment. Two thirds of people with opioid addictions have had at least one severely traumatic childhood experience, and the greater your exposure to different types of trauma, the higher the risk becomes. We need to help abused, neglected and otherwise traumatized children before they turn to drugs for self-medicatation when they hit their teens.
Further, at least half of people with opioid addictions also have a mental illness or personality disorder. The precursors to these problems are often evident in childhood, too. For example, children who are extremely impulsive are at high risk—but on the opposite end of the scale, so, too are children who are highly cautious and anxious. To reach these kids, we don’t need to label them, but we do need to provide tools that are tailored to their specific issues to prevent them from using drugs to manage those issues.
The final major risk factor for addiction is economic insecurity and poverty, particularly unemployment and the hopelessness, social marginalization and lack of structure that often accompany it. For example, heroin addiction rates among people who make less than $20,000 a year are 3.4 times higher than in people who make over $50,000. To those who study the effects of inequality on health, it is no coincidence that the collapse of the white middle class has been accompanied by a rise in all types of addictions, but especially addiction to opioids.
As for other drugs, a sober review of the evidence shows that the dangers of methamphetamine are overhyped: https://www.opensocietyfoundations.o...d-20140218.pdf
While I can't provide data to support the idea, I find it unlikely that if all drugs were suddenly legalized people would start snorting cocaine, smoking PCP, etc. en masse. Most wouldn't even enjoy it, and generations of stigma don't disappear overnight. Measured use of psilocybin and MDMA could probably improve most people's lives. Bottom line, all drugs carry risks, but that is just as true of OTC drugs and numerous supplements (a virtually unregulated industry). The question is not whether any particular drug carries risks, the question is whether those risks outweigh the fiscal and social costs of prohibition. In nearly all cases, "hard" drugs included, prohibition is worse than the drugs. Also, this:
From here, a good read: https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/Quote:
“You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
John Ehrlichman--Chief domestic advisor to Richard Nixon
I think DBS is a firm believer in the correlation equals causation theory.
I manage the day to day operations of a comerical construction site with over 400 tradesmen/women. We drug test during hire, random, and at cause/accident. I have seen a few accidents where someone was drunk or using. No one should do any dangerous work or operate any vehicle or piece of equipment under any mind altering substance, weed included. But whether or not someone smokes or drinks after work is the least of my worries...
The catalyst to making weed legal is the testing. The current testing process shows positive if you used marijuana in the last 5-30 days. We need a test to know if you are stoned now, not if you were stoned sometime last week. Without that there is no way to enforce rules against driving/operating stoned.
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This.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
Probably fighting about the joint bogarting.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Oh fuck, Silver sucker is DBS?
Should have know, there couldn't possibly be two people that retarded.
Great post. Back before the current era of concern about opioid addiction it was estimated that the risk of opioid abuse in people receiving appropriate therapeutic opioids was about the same as the risk of substance abuse in the general population. (About 6% of adults abuse alcohol.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I do think there are other factors besides trauma and life history that make people prone to addiction although those are very important. One is current life circumstances--if one is jobless, living in a bad neighborhood, in jail, etc substance abuse offers a temporary way out. One is probably biological--for some people the pleasure caused by mind-affecting drugs is particularly intense. Another is availability. Alcohol is the preferred drug of abuse because it's easily available. (Twice the deaths annually compared to opiates.) Most middle and upper class adults would have a hard time getting their hands on illicit opiates, but as the epidemic spreads more and more people know someone who knows someone who can direct them to a pill mill or heroin dealer.
I suspect that a bigger factor in on the job accidents is fatigue and lack of sleep. Not to mention the damage done by sleep-deprived doctors (only doctors in training have their hours restricted) and nurses working doubles and rotating shifts--probably a bigger danger than substance abuse by providers.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
I dunno about the original topic, but sure would like to see ANY southeastern state legalize weed. That would be about the most I'd hope for in my lifetime. Somwhere east of the miss. and south of say west va.
Well it's legal in Maryland although they are dragging their damn heels about it. Medical just got on line like 2 weeks ago in a limited rollout and there's no dates set for Rec yet but the voters approved it so it should be coming. That's probably as close as you'll get for a while. Maybe Georgia will come through for you? Or North Carolina? Those would seem to be the only 2 shots if you're not counting Florida.
^I thought it was only medical in MD. I should maybe pay attention, and shit.
I see you damaged yourself, hope you're getting better.
No it's legalized and rec sales should be coming but the politicians are doing everything they can to thwart the will of the people as expressed through the vote. Mass has been doing the same exact thing for about 2 years longer and rec stores are finally supposed to open there this July so maybe Maryland will follow a similar timetable.
And thanks yeah I'm kinda damaged goods but I am feeling better.
Back in HS I had a few beers at lunch and wrote the big power mechnics test, afterwards some one asked Teach what the marks were like ?
Teach said they were pretty bad but there was one perfect score and it was XXX-er, my good buddies pointed out I'd had been drinking, teach said " So ... maybe thats the way to write a test ? "
there were a lot of stoners in that ^^ class including a number of very good drug dealers
Still waiting for Truckee to come up with a plan. The current "emergency" ordinance bans all marijuana sales--medical and rec--including delivery which has been the only way to get it in the past. Don't know if my dispensary is still delivering (a vape cartridge lasts me forever). The jackasses on town council think they're keeping weed out of Truckee--per capita use is probably as high here as anywhere in the country. Meanwhile Sacramento was open for business for rec on day 1. Might have to drive down there.
Ugh. I hate that shit. Sounds like the council all needs to hit that cart too and rethink things.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Why would you drive from Truckee to Sac just for a vape cart?
Less distance/money to hit Reno where all weed products are much better tested for clean.
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...41&oe=5AE4546A
I believe the distinction needs to lie in what drugs are more likely to make a person react violently toward others. I don't mean by way of simply driving while intoxicated, since that is already quite illegal in every capacity. Whereas alcohol, weed, and even some of the hard stuff can alter ones behavior to a certain extent, there is quite a difference in how one reacts to say, Bath Salts. That stuff's screwed up and can too often cause a person to react with violence.
Personally, I'm for federal decriminalization of ALL substances (not necessarily "legalization"), and then leave it up to the states what they want to bother dealing with.
That was you in dazed and confused?Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Or Incline. But Sac is a chance to see my kid and he isn't coming up here until it snows.Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
Talk about kids buying alcohol--when my kid was 17 he goes into a liquor store/convenience store and asks for Red Vines. Clerk comes back with a bottle of red wine.
Isn't there a place in Incline Village?Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
sessions has had a bug up his ass about weed his entire careerQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless
Why can't these things be decided based on facts?
It's cheaper to put chronic homeless people up in cheap apartments than it is to care for them on the streets.
They go to the ER less. They commit less petty crimes. They aren't pissing in the street, scaring the citizens, pooping in the parks or angering business owners.
They have better access to mental health treatment, medical care. Stability allows some to even improve their lives, hold down jobs, etc etc..
And it costs less money!
Why are we so stuck on punishment... or worried about someone getting something for free?
It fucking sucks to be homeless. It fucking sucks to be an addict. Those people have terrible lives. Nobody just chooses to be that.
So why can't we make policy.. drug policy, social service policy based on what has been proven.. evidence based, like look at the success the heroin clinics have had in Europe for example...
Why are we so stuck in this pseudo-Christian punishment mode?
What is best for society is for the majority to be productive members of society. Let's work on that instead of focusing on the failures of people born with the deck stacked against them...
Ohh and fuck you skicougar.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Both of these are fkna spot on.
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Attachment 220932
Haha. Yup! Too true. It is baffling what is legal versus illegal based on it coming in pill form from a pharmaceutical company. If this entire issue hasn't exposed lobby power for what it is, then I don't know what will.Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
oxycotin?
Stoners with good intentionations but litttle capacibility to speil rite;
I keep looking at the "Where Do You Draw The Line On Drug Legality?" thread title and seeing " Where Do You Draw The Line On Drug Quality ? "
Money makes the world go round. It always has and always will.
And we should be doing everything in our power to change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless
Shit like bath salts and spice would cease to exist if the regular drugs people really wanted were legal. Also, of all the drugs that increase the probability of violence toward others alcohol is #1 by far.Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
Because this is America, where everyone can be a Fortune 500 CEO and if you are poor, homeless or an addict it's solely the result of your own shitty life choices. The only righteous path for you to improve your lot in life is to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and not be a sad little leech begging for help. Helping you would only reinforce your dependence and sense of victimhood. Unless your parents are billionaires, in which case it is your birthright to inherit the entirety of their wealth and live a life of leisure and luxury without ever having to work a day in your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
I kid. Great post, probably your best ever. What really kills me is that we don't apply the warped addict logic to other preventable medical conditions. Yes, someone addicted to heroin made some bad choices in their life. So what? Someone with Type 2 diabetes made some pretty shitty lifestyle choices too, but if they refuse to change their lifestyle we don't refuse to provide them with necessary medical care. Using Drug War logic, insulin and blood sugar test kits should be illegal and possession of them should carry lengthy minimum sentences in Federal prison.
And yes, fuck SkiCouger.
i've heard people say this beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
but i haven't seen anything substantive to back it up
you got a link?
This country is really messed up when it comes to drugs (guns too but thats another story) . Like everything else in the USA it is driven by money. My wife who was feeling sad after her mother died was put on anti depressants by a nurse that failed to inform her how addictive they are and was on them for years. I was really pissed that they would loosely prescribe strong meds because she was crying that day (Normal for losing a parent to illness). Fast forward 15 years and I happened to take home some of the space chocolates(cannibis edibles) from the BBI17 last year and she loved it. I don't really drink much or do drugs so we have never had anything like that around the house. So I started buying her edibles and she has completely weened herself off of her anti anxiety sleeping pills and anti depressants and I am thrilled. She takes them at bedtime and some nights not at all. One in six Americans are on antidepressants and pharmaceutical companies probably push doctors to prescribe them. It sucks that we can't travel to other states where she can take her edibles legally. They legalized all drugs in Portugal a while back and drug usage has fallen across the board. I was listening to an interview with Dr. Drew who started as an MD and he was saying that 15 years ago doctors were being sued for causing too much pain and suffering in their patients and were pressured to prescribe opioids and here we are now. He said that some of his patients on Celebrity Rehab had gotten completely clean for months and sometimes longer only go to another doctors office for some sort of pain meds and would get hooked and would be dead within a week. I think it costs $75k a year to keep someone in jail and to put people in prison for marijuana on my dime as a tax payer really pisses me off.
While I'm not entirely sure how I'd feel about applying their model to our nation since I maintain that every country is unique and thus requires unique approaches to just about everything, but Portugal is a VERY fascinating case study in regard to their handling of drugs.
The drug stats across Europe are really interesting and WILDLY all over the place in regard to the impacts of their various drug laws let alone the roots of their various drug abuses, so its tough to say that what works for this country will work for that country. Still, Portugal's approach is definitely worth seriously examining.
Because we're a country full of pseudo-Christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Well, I've seen enough bar fights to say this is likely true. The difference between alcohol and something like bath salts though, is that alcohol lowers inhibitions and thus revealing a person's inner man or current feelings. So if a person is by nature a figher, but societal norms tend to keep him in check, when that person gets drunk, the fighter comes out. If a person is happy-go-lucky by nature, then that tends to get amplified. Same with a depressed person (the WORST to drink with).Quote:
Originally Posted by acinpdx
Whereas some drugs will ALTER the mindset entirely, like that psycho in Miami for example. Remember the whole "cannibal" zombie attack?
Still. For every bath salts incident, there are probably thousands of alcohol related attacks. Again, it's that inner-man that comes out raging and that is never cool.
What about taking health into account? Hard to say this without being hypocritical since alcohol and tobacco cause a myriad of long term health issues and already cost our system a fortune, BUT I think the brain and other physical damage from some of the gnarlier stuff like meth happens WAY, WAY, WAY quicker and far worse.
This whole topic is a really good one. It's tough to definitively draw a line on drug legality. That's perhaps why my stance is on blanket decriminalization. Offering health and human services to those who need it. Probably cheaper and more helpful in the long run when you can nip something in the bud before catching somebody on the tail end of long term abuse where they're REALLY screwed. Seems more likely that someone will reach out for or even accept help if they're not as scared of getting in trouble. I don't know, though.
Put Chicken in a Biskit in the lunchroom. That'll weed them out.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
This kind of thinking is the problem. There are some cultural differences but human nature is the same everywhere. American exceptionalism is bullshit. Every time a logical and humane solution is proffered one group of people shrieks, "That'll never work here!"Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
https://www.nap.edu/read/4421/chapter/5Quote:
Originally Posted by acinpdx
"Alcohol is the drug that is most prevalent in individuals committing violence and those who are victims of violence. This association applies to various types of violent behavior and aggressive tendencies. Experimental studies have repeatedly demonstrated that alcohol causes an increase in aggressive behavior, in both animals and humans. Despite its apparent limitations, laboratory research represents the primary avenue to delineate the causative relationship among alcohol, aggression, and violence.
Alcohol's action on the brain mechanisms for aggressive behavior is modulated by genetic predispositions, learned expectations, social restraints, and cultural habits. Recent progress in understanding the actions of alcohol on brain serotonin and GABA systems may eventually offer diagnostic tools for individuals at risk and therapeutic options for intervention.
The violence associated with cocaine-crack is substantially different in nature and context from the aggression-enhancing effects of alcohol. Violent behavior under the influence of amphetamines, cocaine, LSD, and PCP is rare in the general population, but is considerably more likely in those individuals whose psychopathology predates the drug use. Significantly, most of the violence associated with cocaine and narcotic drugs results from the business of supplying, dealing, and acquiring these substances, not from the direct neurobiologic actions of these drugs.
We need to identify those individuals in whom either alcohol, opiates, cocaine, amphetamines, PCP, LSD, or other hallucinogens promote violent and aggressive behavior by attending to the precise pharmacologic conditions at the time of the violent act; the individual's physiologic conditions; the genetic, developmental, and social background; and the prevailing social conditions. Clearly, alcohol and other drugs of abuse differ markedly from each other in terms of pharmacology and neurobiologic mechanisms, dependence liability, legal and social restraints, expectations, and cultural traditions; no general and unifying principle applies to all of these substances. It should not be surprising that the conditions that promote violence in individuals under the influence of alcohol cannot be simply extrapolated to cocaine-crack or to narcotic drugs. Rational intervention strategies need to be based on an adequate understanding of the specific circumstances, individuals, and pharmacologic conditions that are implicated in any specific type of violent act."
https://www.opensocietyfoundations.o...d-20140218.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
"Evidence presented in this report suggests that illicit ATS use, primarily methamphetamine use, has become the new crack cocaine with respect to sensational media reporting about the extent of ATS use and hyperbolic description of the disastrous consequences of methamphetamine addiction. It has taken nearly three decades for the public to come to a superficial understanding that the deleterious effects of crack cocaine were greatly exaggerated in mass media and government statements. The monetary and human costs of our earlier misunderstandings about crack cocaine are incalculable. Today, unfortunately, much of the public information about methamphetamine has little foundation in evidence. Overblown worst case anecdotes are usually disseminated uncritically by the popular press and accepted as sound evidence by an undiscerning public."