Did you even read my responses to this thread? I think people should be allowed to use the restroom/locker room where they feel the most comfortable.
Going into the women's locker room just to ogle them is childish and ridiculous and harmful to transgendered people..
We should do a "least icky" spread sheet/list:
Identifies as male and is attracted to women: Men's Locker room
Identifies as male and is attracted to men; Women's Locker room
Identifies as Female and is attracted to women: Men's Locker room
Identifies as Female and is attracted to men: Women's Locker room
How the fuck you would ever enforce that is beyond me, in addition to the simple fact that straight men like gay women... a lot, judging from porn.
Or, of course, we could just stick to the tried and true method of "Have a dick? Men's room. No dick? Women's room" and be done with it.
There is sense in what you're saying, but you also have to have a way to prohibit men from going into a women's locker room to ogle them. And it has to be a legally defensible way. That's the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Most people who have given any thought to this issue, and have some understanding of transgendered people, can see that there's a problem here, and someone who is biologically male but feels female, dresses as a female, identifies as female, takes hormone therapy, etc, "belongs" in the women's restroom. But how to make that happen is trickier. The earlier suggestion of "dresses in women's clothes" is not a workable legal solution. But I'm not sure there is one. It may seem black and white to you, it sure seems that way by your posts, but you haven't even allowed for the possibility that this is complicated, and that someone who is sympathetic to the plight of trans folks might not see it the way that you do.
I can always dream of being the meat in a Danno sandwich. Either that or I'm a lesbian in a man's body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
What if I told you that as a heterosexual male I'm far more comfortable being naked in the company of women than men? It's a bullshit new-age argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
What about a really big clit?
The truly amazing thing is that South Park, of all things, came up with a great solution: A third restroom (locker room by extension.)
you sound like a 10 year old.. he got two cupcakes and I only got one wahhhh mommy! the transgender guy gets to go in the womans locker room and I cant...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
thinkin outside the boxQuote:
Originally Posted by Mazderati
Which is why the only workable solution is: Biological Male: Men's room (despite some possible ogling/sexual assault from gays) and Biological Female: Women's room (despite possible ogling/sexual assault from lesbians.) Maybe throw in a third room for "It's complicated" and track what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
ok so are you going to station someone at the door to check penises and vajayjays?
New angle to the Monty Hall problem.
Seems that the patrons are on it, no? Are you going to have everyone fill out a questionnaire and show some kind of proof? Kinda easy to lie about how someone "identifies."Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
exactly. and what about people in the process of gender reassignment? What if they're taking hormone therapy? You think chicks will be happy about some person in their restroom who has a beard, just because that person hasn't yet had the surgery? You think guys will be ok with someone in their restroom who has boobs and is in a dress? Do you think that person with boobs and a dress is safe in every men's restroom?Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
I don't have the answer. But acting like there's a simple two-restroom answer and we're all stupid for not seeing it is, well, stupid.
That said, Tipp is right (that South Park is right), the only real solution that works is 3 restrooms.
Transgendered people and other "freaks" are at the most risk of violence and are subject to constant abuse and isolation and not belonging.
They do not want to make a scene. Its people like you.. ohhh no a gay guy seen my penis so I should get to ogle in the womans locker room.
Have you considered that its not about ogling, its about taking a piss or shit or changing your clothes?
In the case of restrooms, a single room would be fine if all men could actually be trusted to piss in the correct place and not completely fuck up the toilets. But anyone that's been in the men's room at a truck stop can attest that no, men cannot be trusted with that simple task.
As for changing rooms, how hard is it to just turn towards the wall and quickly change? There's no fucking reason to prance around.
My understanding is that women are no better in this regard than men.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
False, maybe you don't but the majority of hetero/bi-wymn have much less of an issue being naked around other women than their male counterparts.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
False..Quote:
probably because its extremely rare for gay guys to sexually assault heterosexual men.... ?
So we're literally talking about in a best case scenario .01% of the population. For a country the size of America that equates to 50000 people. Why not just pay for the damn operation and let the world get on with itself. For a one time billion dollar investment we can avoid ever having this conversation again.
Hey Iran does it. With thoroughly mixed results, but it's a bit more complicated thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Deebased
Get rid of restrooms and make everyone wear a diaper.
The bullshit of my wife needing to stop at every rest stop on the way to VT each weekend would stop as well. The trip takes 1/2 hr longer than it should.
Yeah, cause separate but equal works so well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Actual solution: all bathrooms/locker rooms are gender neutral.
Said areas could be built with hanging curtains to provide privacy.
If incidents of rape/assault increase we can drastically increase punishment for those offenses.
Can't wait to share a good dump with a chick sometime. USA!
I think I can speak for the citizens of vt here. You should probably stay home instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberridge
I can't. They depend on me and others to spend our $ there. There are no jobs or industry to support them otherwise. Bernie for President.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirshredalot
I want to start exporting vt maple creemees to help their economyQuote:
Originally Posted by Timberridge
How the hell do you know how woman feel about nudity and how they act in locker rooms? Have you been reassigned? Nttawwt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebased
As for paying for gender reassignment, I'm not 100% against that.
All restrooms should be one person at a time anyway. Solves a bunch of the issues. And I don't really think anyone wants to be around when I am working out a growler. I know that I am much more comfortable when I have privacy and don't have to worry about the courtesy flush unless of course my own eyes are watering and my nostril hairs have been singed. As far as changing rooms? Same solution. Lockers in a common area. Everything else is single occupancy. That way one can share some common infrastructure.
I do think third "neutral" facilities is the way to go, but logistically it's not going to happen overnight.
Why would you need curtains for privacy? If the goal is to change the way we think of about nudity and gender equality then that only perpetuates the way we think.Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboyshredder
It sounds like what you would really like is single occupancy restrooms and showers/changing rooms.
Maybe he's close friends with some women and they talk about it. Not all men are woman haters who can't have conversations about these types of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Why are you against paying for gender reassignment?
That's what it's like at my gym. And that's why there's no way in hell my 5 year old daughter is going in there with me!Quote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer Drinker
Battleshits!
What you need is 3 options. Men, Women, and Androgynous Bowie.
http://traditioninaction.org/movies/...28_Bowie_1.jpg
Sounds like the start of a gay penthouse forum letter.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
How often do you take your daughter to the gym with you? Is this a common on thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Vocabulary word of the day: protandrous hermaphroditeQuote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
The common clownfish (A. ocellaris) is a small fish which grows up to 11 cm (4.3 inches). Its body has a stocky appearance and oval shape. A. ocellaris is a diurnal fish. It is a protandrous hermaphrodite, which means the male can change its gender to female during its life, and lives in a harem in which an established dominance hierarchy manages the group and keeps individuals at a specific social rank. It is aggressively territorial and is completely dependent on its sea anemone.
I'm not completely against it. That's what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronWright
He's talking out his ass from his bs puritan stance... in general, women are far more often self conscious about their bodies than not, and women are often extremely cruel to each other.
From what I have heard, men are less cruel and less self consious...
well, our gym has a playroom/daycare, so we do take her sometimes, and they have some kids programs too. Plus they have an outdoor pool so in the summer I imagine we'll take her even more. She doesn't work out with us, if that's what you're wondering.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
some people just want to argue every point, but yes, this is generally true from everything I have witnessed in my life and everything I have read in my life. It is just a generalization, so not everyone fits this of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79