4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DudeLebowSKI

Just soften the tip ever so slightly and add 1cm of tip length with 1cm of additional splay.

---

I guess I should mention that for next year we've raised the tip height just a bit, which I think should work to do some of the same things here.

I think more tip splay would end up being detrimental in crud. More snaggy.

I've got some mounting point insight though. 4frnt just replaced my proto pair with a production run because of binding rip out number two. Big props.

I had mounted my original pair at 90cm from the tail do to the initial rip out I had on my first day.I had kind of noticed that the skis were more lively at 90cm, but it was hard to tell because I had like 4 hours on the original 88cm mount.

Fast forward. I mounted the new ones at 88cm and I can confirm they are less lively for sure. As an all around ski I liked the mount more at 90cm. The could carve a tight radius when you wanted and tracked straight fine. It was almost the best of both worlds. At 88cm the ski whats to stick to it's radius more.

BUT... In powder it's way better. And because these are powder skis I'll get used to the decreased nimbleness. If i was always skiing steep, denser powder, then I would like 90cm more. Even big faces (pucker face, no-name) they were perfectly fine. But I tested them out in 18" of fluff on sunday and they plane a lot better and want to porpoise more at 88cm (duh).

Now they ski more like chargers, where before I cheated and got the best of both worlds (except in powder). They were snappy in their turns but would straightline with the best of them. I do feel them putting me in the backseat more now, but that's stuff you adjust to (i did at the other mounting point anyway).

Because I don't get denser, non-crusted, steep, untracked pow all the time, I happy with original mount point. I'll adapt to the loss in snappy in crud and hardpack.

I can't imagine going further back though, but i'm a little guy. Maybe 89cm is my sweet spot, but i'll be damned if i remount these new ones.

^^ that sounds awesome 4frnt....same stiffness underfoot and in the tail....little more splay and slightly softer tip to bring back the porpoising effect of the ehp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maker

^^ that sounds awesome 4frnt....same stiffness underfoot and in the tail....little more splay and slightly softer tip to bring back the porpoising effect of the ehp.

---

Sounds good to me too 4FRNT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by otto parts

the shape is money, do wish they were 4.5 lbs and maaaaybe a bit more tip rocker.

---

Glad to help with the product dev 4FRNT, halfway there!:biggrin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huckwheat

Been debating that in my own mind since I skied 186 Ren.
--Do you have current EHP or original EHP 193 (which used to be different from other sizes too).

The no camber, early rise 193 (132-112-118) is a ski I have learned to love on big powder days at Squaw. I think the no camber is rough though when you get out of the deep. I love what a charging ski it is, how you can rarely go over the bars, and how the stiff tail helps you just STICK the s@#$ out of cliffs.

With the Renegade, I thought it railed groomer (granted it was still with some fresh around), and through choppy mank it was just amazing. I did need to make sure I was staying forward, as the slight rocker tail will let you get backseat and take a ride......but if you stay centered is is just awesome.

The above 2 facts have me questioning if I want a 186 or 196 Renegade......providing I kept the 193EHP for big days (straightlining and hucking). If the Renegade was for more average, or skied out snow, or just trees (which EHPs can be a bit much for)....the 186 could make sense.

The question I keep asking myself is IF I would end up just loving the Renegades for everything, and therefore want a bigger ski to charge big days too. I havent really reconciled how I would use the 2 skis and which are best for which.
---Would love more discussion from folks that have skied both.

---

HW- I am feeling in the same place-----> really leaning toward the Ren for a better suited fun shape spot in the quiver and torn between the two sizes. Some days the 186 seems possiblyperfect for tights and trees while still being more stable and damp than my CRJ.....others times I feel the 196 would be more daily driver and used more for days at bigger resorts especially being a bigger dude.

wonder if most the larger dude on 186's wish they could've bought 196's this year? and would love to hear thoughts...

also it seem like there are some divergent opinions (DUH) with some folks claiming it a big high speed stick, while others love its poppyness and ability to kill it on more technical lines. WHAT UP WITH THAT?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allTandA

also it seem like there are some divergent opinions (DUH) with some folks claiming it a big high speed stick, while others love its poppyness and ability to kill it on more technical lines. WHAT UP WITH THAT?

---

And why couldn't a ski do both? They charge when you want them to, but they have enough nimbleness and responsiveness to work in tighter spots, granted they're no JJ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D(C)

And why couldn't a ski do both? They charge when you want them to, but they have enough nimbleness and responsiveness to work in tighter spots, granted they're no JJ.

---

well that's what I want to hear!!:biggrin::biggrin:

DO WANT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allTandA

also it seem like there are some divergent opinions (DUH) with some folks claiming it a big high speed stick, while others love its poppyness and ability to kill it on more technical lines. WHAT UP WITH THAT?

---

I agree with D(C). And actually, I don't think there's any divergent opinions on those particular points. Everyone seems to agree that the ski charges like a mutha, is poppy, and maneuverable. It rocks. The only mixed opinions on this ski have to do with float in pow/mounting point.

I love the 186. Could be a little bigger, like 191 but 196 is an AK, cat, Heli ski IMO. But as always there will be guys skiing 202 138's looking for 212. I just think 186 and 196 is a big gap.

^^ My nuts ache for those 196s. My head says "why?" I probably won't spring for them unless my situation changes and I'm skiing bigger mountains more often. If I was, though, or I was a bigger guy (5'9" 155lbs), I wouldn't hesitate to go with the longer length. As a smaller guy skiing tiny hills most of the time, I wish I had the longer length in addition to the 186, but not as a daily driver.

Soft, heavy spring snow, I really begin to notice that tail if I get at all backseat. The width bugs my knees a little bit on hard or chattery snow. Otherwise, though, totally confidence inspiring. There's so much there to get into, but they're still easy to pilot and have great manners in all conditions.

whoooEEEEEE!

maybe its the alcohol

maybe its the bellyful of schnitzel

but I am liking the commentary and feeling like the 196 might be right on.

#208 of the 10/11 Renegade run has come alive in a Dynafit setup mounted at 88cm. Considered the 112RP, but couldn't resist a proper wood core, sandwich ski that is handbuilt on the continent. Going to drive them with Maestrale 's. Ski tech came out from the back sayin "those are hottest boards to come through our shop in a looooong time". I said, "oh, did you mount them?" and he replied "Uh no, our most experienced guy did 'em". Nice.

Coming off an R:Ex..guess I'm in for an eye opener. Can wait to get them where they belong. Many thanks toBanff Ski Stop & mtnlion for making it happen and TGR for hosting this place (get your flicks every year). Most of all thanks to Eric, Cody & the crew for putting their heart into this ski.

So, when might 196 be available? How big is the run, and how much are they? Do we need to preorder, or can we get them.

^^ to amplify on that - will it continue to be a white room, small run for the 186?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BC_Mike

#208 of the 10/11 Renegade run has come alive in a Dynafit setup mounted at 88cm. Considered the 112RP, but couldn't resist a proper wood core, sandwich ski that is handbuilt on the continent. Going to drive them with Maestrale 's. Ski tech came out from the back sayin "those are hottest boards to come through our shop in a looooong time". I said, "oh, did you mount them?" and he replied "Uh no, our most experienced guy did 'em". Nice.

Coming off an R:Ex..guess I'm in for an eye opener. Can wait to get them where they belong. Many thanks toBanff Ski Stop & mtnlion for making it happen and TGR for hosting this place (get your flicks every year). Most of all thanks to Eric, Cody & the crew for putting their heart into this ski.

---

glad that worked out for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huckwheat

So, when might 196 be available? How big is the run, and how much are they? Do we need to preorder, or can we get them.

---

Same small-run from the White Room for all of the Renegades. Exact quantities are TBD, but probably around 300 total for both sizes. Pricing, pre-order and shop order dates to come, but you can always call your local shop and tell them you want a pair for their orders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4FRNT

Same small-run from the White Room for all of the Renegades. Exact quantities are TBD, but probably around 300 total for both sizes. Pricing, pre-order and shop order dates to come, but you can always call your local shop and tell them you want a pair for their orders.

---

Have any of your guys been out on the 196 yet? That thing must be a monster, based on the burl of the 186.

Yeah, Sterbenz skis them every day now. His exact words when he saw them were, "I'm back!" :)

I took them out on Sunday to Alta for an 8-12 inch day. All I can say is that they're rocket ships. So fast, so stable, but you can still shut them down no problems because of the shape.

Sterbenz made them look pretty damn good under less than perfect snow conditions at the Monday demo at Stevens Pass. Of course he's pretty damn good...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spindrift

Sterbenz made them look pretty damn good under less than perfect snow conditions at the Monday demo at Stevens Pass. Of course he's pretty damn good...

---

He seemed to be enjoying himself at Retallack last week as well.

http://chadspectorphoto.com/coppermi...1/_MG_1441.jpg

Well, I talked with Matt and Cody, and we decided to go ahead and get the pre-order page up. We have 186 and 196 available. $849.99 is all it takes to ensure you have the best ski ever.

http://www.4frnt.com/xcart/product.p...cat=347&page=1

Really like the stiffness of the 186. I could maybe see a slightly softer tip in the 196 being nice, but if you do indeed soften up the 186 at all I'm glad I got the first batch.
As far as more rocker in the tip, not really sure how that would be. The ski shape seems perfect, but could help with float I suppose, as long as they don't lose their high speed stability/non-hookiness.
I really want the 196s. Only problem is I went broke buying the 186s early season this year and never recovered. Really hope they aren't all gone before I get the funds.

Damn, I really want TLT 5P but those 196:ers looks soooo good. What to do...

When do you expect to deliver?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EEC

but if you do indeed soften up the 186 at all I'm glad I got the first batch.

---

The 186 will be softened?

4FRNT - can you outline ALL of the changes to the 186 Renegade and how/if they translate to the 196? What I've got now is a 1cm higher tip. Current rumors though, just in this thread, include more rocker and a softer ski. Nip this shit in the bud.

If you read back, there aren't any 'rumours' about a softer ski. There are a couple of mag requests for a slightly softer tip for better floatation. 4FRNT responded saying that they were putting slightly more rise in the tip to address the floatation. I assume that, apart from that, the skis will be identical to the inaugural run.

I'm assuming the same thing, but all it takes is a "if next year's is softer" for the rumor to start. Just looking for clarification on these points, especially on something as subjective as flex.

Depending on how much more tip rise they add, I may sell my current 186's and buy next year's 186. The current shape and flex are money.

I agree. I like them enough that I'm thinking about selling mine too, just so that I can buy minty new ones (not that mine aren't still minty) - but only if there aren't significant changes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DudeLebowSKI

If you read back, there aren't any 'rumours' about a softer ski. There are a couple of mag requests for a slightly softer tip for better floatation. 4FRNT responded saying that they were putting slightly more rise in the tip to address the floatation. I assume that, apart from that, the skis will be identical to the inaugural run.

---

This is correct. We aren't making any flex or shape changes to the Renegade this year. The 196 will be identical to the 186 other than it's dimensions.

The only two changes being made are the slight increase in tip height and we changed the construction of our tip and tail fill to make it a little more durable (this won't affect how the Renegade skis at all).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moralkaka

When do you expect to deliver?

---

Delivery date should be sometime in October/early-November. We'll have a better idea once construction starts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4FRNT

Delivery date should be sometime in October/early-November. We'll have a better idea once construction starts.

---

Hopefully before the snow falls this time around. That wait just about killed me... :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D(C)

Hopefully before the snow falls this time around. That wait just about killed me... :D

---

Yeah, for sure. We will not face the same delays as we did last year. We learned a TON, and are working now to get the process dialed in before we press the first skis this summer.

Since you're obviously watching this thread, 4FRNT - what kind of plans do you have for a skinnier Renegade?

Dear 4frnt,

Could you please make a version of the current EHP, but with a twin tip (ie. put long low profile rise, just like the regular tip at the front of the ski, but at the tail of the ski)?

Thanks,
iscariot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Since you're obviously watching this thread, 4FRNT - what kind of plans do you have for a skinnier Renegade?

---

Eric wants to update the EHP for 12/13 using what we learned making the Ren. How major or minor those changes will be, or what it will all come out like in the end is still up in the air.

We've got to do a bunch of testing, prototyping, etc before we make any decisions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4FRNT

Eric wants to update the EHP for 12/13 using what we learned making the Ren. How major or minor those changes will be, or what it will all come out like in the end is still up in the air.

We've got to do a bunch of testing, prototyping, etc before we make any decisions.

---

That's a great idea! You can mark me down for a pair.

For the record


I am drinking the Kool-Aid

fondled the 196s today. they are tanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mc_roon

fondled the 196s today. they are tanks

---

Wish my income was higher. Considering heavily thinning my quiver/cooking meth.