At least 3 dead, 15 injured after B.C. avalanche

I didn't read all of this but a couple of reports I saw jumped out at me. One seemed to say the crown was 7 -9 metres BUT maybe it really referred to the debris pile depth.

The more interesting one was about a 20 year old guy maybe local to revie and sounds like he's big into the sledding. He decided not to go out because he felt it was too dangerous due to recent activity. The 20 year old tried to talk his Mother out of going but she went anyway. She was one who was unaccounted for at first but has been found fine now it seems.

The dead guys are from Lacombe and Strathmore and as mentioned run an oil supply company. These places are pure prairie and are typical homes for a lot of the Revie weekend sledding crowd. I'm far from the slowest guy who drives highway 1 and when I get passed 8 out of 10 times it's a big diesel truck pulling 2 - 4 sleds. A lot of these guys have a risk mentality that goes way beyond safe choices.

Just last year 7died? out of a group of 14? and yet 200 can gather in a place like that and still ignore serious avalanche warnings. That's 200 people ignoring most common sense. That says an awful lot about the mindset of a large portion of these enthusiasts.

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Originally Posted by Fatfish

Okay, sorry to correct you and i am very glad you went in but it was not a class 4. Class 3 yes. 200 peeps hit? No. Estimated 40 - 50. There were 200 peeps at the event and luckily the were not all drinking beer in the slide path. That is not a stereo type either, there were lots of beer cans at the scene. Media likes to rough up the story a little. Nice that my tax bucks went to digging and heli ing out 35-40 sleds today. They dogs cant smell shit with all the petrol so they will probe it tomorrow. Thank Selkirk Tangires and CMH for being the first on the scene. Guess they had a hard time landing at the scene with all the sleds racing around in the way during the kaos and rescue efforts. So suprised and glad it went the way it did, not many deaths. Sad to say that heard one patron just passed away in the hospital. Have some pics but not allowed to post them. Sorry guys.

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were you up there to?

not to pick at a moot point but seeing as your critiquing my professional oppinon it sure seemed to meed the definition of a Size 4 to me since i could easily have "destroy a railway car, large truck, or several buildings".

I think there is a big difference between sled skiers, and sledders, i know there is cross over and I know that I'm generalizing but I still think that a pretty clear distinction exist specifically regarding the way the two groups mentally approach traveling in the mountains. The thing that I'm still trying to wrap my head around is that the hazard was high, the CAC had issued a special advisory and yet still people were pushing it in big terrain. I just can't figure out how sledder culture seems to have developed that encourages this suicidal risk tolerance.

Something has to be done to stem these insanely high sledder accident rates (19 our of 25 recreational avalanche deaths in BC in 2009 were sledders, this year I think it is about 7 out of 8). More training, yes. Better targeted and appropriate public forecasts yes. But only when sledneck culture undergoes a paradigm shift in its risk tolerance and grows out of its invincibility complex will we see a decrease in sledder deaths.

What is going to need to be done to bring that about? I have no idea, but the community needs to start taking snow saftey seriously. Hopefully the sledder industry will take note here and step up by investing in developing better public avalanche products though financial support of the CAC, the CAA and research programs like ASARC at U of C.

Nope. Roomates, Landlord and a bunch of other friends. Detailed pics though. Had to work. Looked gnarly.

Thanks for the pics, Erik. I've been waiting to see what it looked like and found this bit of rough footie at CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americ...ex.html?hpt=T2

Wow those pics are crazy, I can't even fathom that amount of snow coming down.

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Originally Posted by backcountryislife

There's nothing inherently athletic about getting off a lift & sliding to the bottom of the hill, but I'm not ignorant enough to make the same assumption that you have & say that all skiers are fat & lazy.

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Yet you are ignorant enough to not see the difference between lift accessed skiing and backcounty 'earn your turns'. I think Benny was being specific in his reference and comparison to backcountry skiing. Skiing a bunny slope takes limited skill and a credit line, backcountry DOES takes skill AND physical endurance.

At it's base level sledding only takes a credit line and opposable thumbs, the case of beer may be optional.

That isn't the same as saying that's all any sledder ever achieves he's only saying it is the minimum requirement. You and your friends may approach it much differently but that doesn't mean many out there (perhaps 200 or so last friday) don't put minimum intelligent thought into it.

You blindly defending the worst of your sport's participants only reflects badly on those of you doing it right.

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Originally Posted by L7

You blindly defending the worst of your sport's participants only reflects badly on those of you doing it right.

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Well stated. Those people as a whole thumbed their nose at the deadly consequences and two paid the price. Does that mean we shouldn't look at the cold hard truth of the matter and put the spot light on a percentage of a particular user group who think its all funny to cheat death, but then cry ignorance when it all goes wrong? It's astounding anyone with any sort of basic avalanche safety knowledge would not be simply outraged at that type of behavior.

Well, I've been avoiding posting here even though I've been reading intently. But I figured I'd quote a fellow poster because I think he sums up what the vast majority of us in this realm are likely thinking. These people think it's the hot shit to be suicidal.

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Originally posted by eirikainersharp
I think there is a big difference between sled skiers, and sledders, i know there is cross over and I know that I'm generalizing but I still think that a pretty clear distinction exist specifically regarding the way the two groups mentally approach traveling in the mountains. The thing that I'm still trying to wrap my head around is that the hazard was high, the CAC had issued a special advisory and yet still people were pushing it in big terrain. I just can't figure out how sledder culture seems to have developed that encourages this suicidal risk tolerance.

Something has to be done to stem these insanely high sledder accident rates (19 our of 25 recreational avalanche deaths in BC in 2009 were sledders, this year I think it is about 7 out of 8). More training, yes. Better targeted and appropriate public forecasts yes. But only when sledneck culture undergoes a paradigm shift in its risk tolerance and grows out of its invincibility complex will we see a decrease in sledder deaths.

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Also, if you haven't checked out these pics you should, there's a link in another thread as well, but these spell it out. Avy's in low angle terrain, extensive connection of terrain features. The reporters are calling conditions up there "weird." That's a red flag when pro's say that. Check out the "around the clock" slide in this pic:

http://www.avalanche.ca/uploads/gall..._avalanche.JPG

And this one in low angle terrain.

http://www.avalanche.ca/uploads/gall..._Chilcotin.JPG

Here's the rest of 'em. Be safe out there.

http://www.avalanche.ca/cac/library/...feb-march-2010

a few years ago, a slide path just west of the A-Basin parking lot ripped out while the ski area was open. It just as easily could have been a path that dumped into the parking lot. If a slide buried the Beach, would we be passing judgment toward the skiers who were just there to enjoy their afternoon, drink some beer, and have a good time? Again, the "organized" nature of an event like this could easily lull people into a false sense of security, the same way we think we're safe when we're boozing in the Basin lot....

I mean, I'm the first to rip on idiot dumbshits with two stroke engines, but some of the bullshit in this thread is just mind boggling. Take your ignorant hate somewhere else, fucktards.

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Originally Posted by Fatfish

Nope. Roomates, Landlord and a bunch of other friends. Detailed pics though. Had to work. Looked gnarly.

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Sounds like you would have been there if you didn't have to work?

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Originally Posted by Lone Star

a few years ago, a slide path just west of the A-Basin parking lot ripped out while the ski area was open. It just as easily could have been a path that dumped into the parking lot. If a slide buried the Beach, would we be passing judgment toward the skiers who were just there to enjoy their afternoon, drink some beer, and have a good time? Again, the "organized" nature of an event like this could easily lull people into a false sense of security, the same way we think we're safe when we're boozing in the Basin lot....

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Apples to oranges. Hell, more like comparing soy beans to leaded paint. Perhaps if you were watching a bunch of sledders highmarking above you, but even still a slide path above a ski resort parking lot is likely to be a more controlled area than the full backcountry.

Certainly there should have been many among the 200 that realized the stupidity of the situation, but unfortunately it seems that some of the 'best', 'most experienced' sledders were the ones actually creating the problem, not mitigating it.

Yes, for sure. Not as a spectator if thats what you are thinking! The friends of mine that were there are SAR. I am so glad there wasn't more fatalities. Some people have horse shoes up their asses.

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Originally Posted by Lone Star

a few years ago, a slide path just west of the A-Basin parking lot ripped out while the ski area was open. It just as easily could have been a path that dumped into the parking lot. If a slide buried the Beach, would we be passing judgment toward the skiers who were just there to enjoy their afternoon, drink some beer, and have a good time?

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That slide path is controlled by CDOT with helicopter bombing. I was present for one of those bombings. It was all done very safely. Not with snowmobiles doing tricks up there while we all stood in the parking lot, watching and cheering.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

That slide path is controlled by CDOT with helicopter bombing. I was present for one of those bombings. It was all done very safely. Not with snowmobiles doing tricks up there while we all stood in the parking lot, watching and cheering.

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you wouldn't know the difference between "safe" and "unsafe" control work.... I'm not talking about the Professor, you fucking moron.
http://avalanche.state.co.us/acc/acc...ident=20050520

blaming the injured and dead isn't going to help prevent an accident like this again. go fuck yourself and die in a grease fire.

This thread is done. Be safe out there.

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Originally Posted by L7

You blindly defending the worst of your sport's participants only reflects badly on those of you doing it right.

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I'm not blindly defending them, and a number of times I mention how absolutely ignorant & stupid it was to be sitting there like that.

What I AM defending against is the obnoxious over generalization that pops up it's head OVER & OVER in this thread.

Then you call me ignorant for comparing to to resort riding instead of bc. I've spent 20 years hiking, touring, & splitboarding before I ever touched a sled. I know & also directly compared a day of hiking for turns to a day of sledding. It's a hard thing to compare. Even pushing on the hikes on each lap I'm much more tired at the end of a day sledding.

It's ok though, no matter what I say, you won't get it. If you haven't put in the time on a sled you honestly don't have a clue what it's like. I sure didn't.

Anyone know how many times it had been climbed before the slide ran? The avalanche reportedly ran at 3pm, so I'm just curious if people had been hitting it all day long.

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Originally Posted by Lone Star

a few years ago, a slide path just west of the A-Basin parking lot ripped out while the ski area was open. It just as easily could have been a path that dumped into the parking lot. If a slide buried the Beach, would we be passing judgment toward the skiers who were just there to enjoy their afternoon, drink some beer, and have a good time? Again, the "organized" nature of an event like this could easily lull people into a false sense of security, the same way we think we're safe when we're boozing in the Basin lot....

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If you guys were sitting there in an obvious slide path under extreme avie conditions, cheering on a few numbskulls who then somehow triggered the slide on top of you, well then, that would be fodder for more than a few new Summit county jokes.

Goldenboy,
it didn't sound like they were there long from the reports I've heard. Sounds like it didn't take much to make this timebomb drop. They had just recently moved to that location, a decision that dropped the amount of participants to an extent, because many did not think it was a smart choice.

One problem with the events like this is they go 100% against the rules that the rest of us live by, 1 person/machine on an aspect at a time (I see this rule broken by skiers on a daily basis where I ride btw), these guys have 2 to 6 at a time cranking up at once (and then the people that were in the path at the bottom/bench).
Also it sounds like what set it off was a guy climbing over the top of a guy that was stuck, again a dead set rule that MOST of us follow. If you look at the pics of the location & the way the spectators were laid out, it looks to me that many of them thought they were out of the main slidepath, but that doesn't look terribly realistic to me. I don't think I'd hang on that bench even in good (low danger) conditions.

This was not a real event ,just a bunch of skilled experianced BC sledders doing what they would have been doing anyway which is exercising poor judgement in the name of thrills & spills ,you read any of the mudsnow forum and they are all about aviy being part of the game .... this IS what they do

Cash Heed the attorney general of the province did a flyover by chopper ... which tells me that the BC gov is taking more than a passing interest in the situation

I wonder what will come of that, the gov has the authority to close an area to motorized travel

I could you see an MLA standing up in the legislature and addressing the gov on this (with CTV coverage of course as follow on to the aviy coverage) it will go kinda like ..."honorable mr speaker will the governnment save sledders from themselves and how could they do that ?"

[QUOTE=eirikainersharp;2793437]

Something has to be done to stem these insanely high sledder accident rates (19 our of 25 recreational avalanche deaths in BC in 2009 were sledders, this year I think it is about 7 out of 8).

What people need to understand is the difference in ratio of sledders in the back country to skiers. How many unguided skiers are out in the b/c in BC on a Saturday, maybe 1000, 2000? There is that many sleds in Revy each day, now multiply that by every sled town in BC. There is going to be more sledders involved due to numbers.

There was many mistakes made this weekend by many people, first by the so called organizers of the event. Worst conditions in years and it goes ahead??? It is tragic people got hurt and died.

I would bet many of the people up there would not have been there if the event was not held.

Regardless, in my opinion there is way too many noobs laying down money for big machines they should not have and don't have time to attend an avy class. They get one or 2 weekends a year to "hit the big hills" and they do regardless of the conditions.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

This was not a real event ,just a bunch of skilled experianced BC sledders doing what they would have been doing anyway which is exercising poor judgement in the name of thrills & spills ,you read any of the mudsnow forum and they are all about aviy being part of the game .... this IS what they do

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If that's how they ride up there, that's scary.

How do you mean avy's are part of the game? They're ALWAYS part of the game in the BC, that's reality, but I doubt you hear people saying, "yeah I climbed over my buddy today & set off a slide, it was SOOO cool, think I'll do it again next weekend" I just don't see any of that kind of mentality. I'm on snowest & Backcountryrebels & have never seen anything even close to the type of mentality that you describe. Maybe it's different up in Canada eh? Maybe I'm just making the wrong stereotype.

I wish people would stop posting threads about people dying, because EVERY time it just turns into a bunch of fucks like Benny posting about how hardcore they are that they could never accidently get into a bad situation. Since some people that aren't nearly as smart and badass as fuckers like Benny, they deserve to die and, in fact, their death is sometimes funny. Fuck you guys that are posting anything other than condolences

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Originally Posted by pano-dude

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Originally Posted by eirikainersharp

Something has to be done to stem these insanely high sledder accident rates (19 our of 25 recreational avalanche deaths in BC in 2009 were sledders, this year I think it is about 7 out of 8).

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What people need to understand is the difference in ratio of sledders in the back country to skiers. How many unguided skiers are out in the b/c in BC on a Saturday, maybe 1000, 2000? There is that many sleds in Revy each day, now multiply that by every sled town in BC. There is going to be more sledders involved due to numbers.

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I'm not so sure, I bet on a Saturday there are almost as many cars in Rogers Pass as there are in the Quartz, and Boulder parking lots. When you keep in mind that most skiers actually carpool to the trail head I wonder if there are many more snowmobilers.

Regardless, the relative number of snowmobile fatalities is on the rise. A decade ago backcountry skiers were that primary risk group for recreation avalanche involvement. But sledder fatalities have been steadily taking up a bigger and bigger portion of the pie each year. This can't be explained completely by saying there are more sledders now than there were a decade ago, although the growing popularity of the sport is more than like likely one contributing factor. More powerful machines which let people get up in to serious terrain is another. But both of these are coupled with the fact that mountain sledding is still in its adolescences. People have been skiing big mountainous terrain for the last 50 years. Skiing has suffered losses, its grown up and a culture of safety has developed (not to say that skiers don't take stupid risks frequently). I'm just not sure sledding is there yet.

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Originally Posted by pano-dude

There was many mistakes made this weekend by many people, first by the so called organizers of the event. Worst conditions in years and it goes ahead??? It is tragic people got hurt and died.

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Case in point.

On another note:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...stigation.html

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B.C. Solicitor General Kash Heed flew over the site of the avalanche on Sunday and said it's fortunate more people weren't killed.
Heed said the provincial government is looking at ways to make the backcountry safer, but remained unwilling to impose restrictions on backcountry use. In B.C. no licence is required to operate a snowmobile.
"As we go forward we will determine what we can do to make this safer," said Heed.

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and a little video of the post slide carnage:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americ...Top+Stories%29

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Originally Posted by backcountryislife

If that's how they ride up there, that's scary.

How do you mean avy's are part of the game? They're ALWAYS part of the game in the BC, that's reality, but I doubt you hear people saying, "yeah I climbed over my buddy today & set off a slide, it was SOOO cool, think I'll do it again next weekend" I just don't see any of that kind of mentality. I'm on snowest & Backcountryrebels & have never seen anything even close to the type of mentality that you describe. Maybe it's different up in Canada eh? Maybe I'm just making the wrong stereotype.

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I see a laugh in the face of danger/ balls to the wall/ If I die doing this that is just what happens mentality

Here is a quote from DAN123 in the clemina video thread that I posted a few pages back , I think this is maybe not entirely a mainstream sledneck view BUT not unusual in view of the fact that while some choose not to climb turbo some did ... I wonder what the ratio of people who chose to climb vs those who backed away was ?



"I realise most people die in class 2 or 3 avalanches,,and only few a due to
blunt force trama and you could be 3m under.....

Class 4 and 5 are acctually qyite rare...
reread your post:yes if you break you neck your done,,no matter how it happens thats true..
But point was,,Alot of people could be saved that aren't.But that a risk we take

I,ve been riding back country snowmobiling since 94 and if I never climbed
any hills due to dangerous conditions,well that would be every year...

IMO 2002 was worse contions than this year,,,lots of people got
killed this year,,and if the goberment shut me down I'll be more pissed
than you could imagine...

But i know what back country riding is about people DIE DOING THIS
EVERY YEAR!!!(27 in 03) I SAY SO WHAT,,you stay don't climb,,So you be
safe,, please stat home,,next year too would ya "



I think eirikainersharp has a good handle on whats up .

in any case just trying to understand whats up ,there is no point in judging ,cuz if they want to kill themselves who am I to stop them ... the only question in my mind is have they fucked themselves over enough so the government will step in ?

I see what you're saying. On the other hand I also boat class V (don't own a dirtbike, jeep, or atv, shocker I know!)& people die doing that. We're not happy about it, we don't try to increase the odds, but we're not back doing class II either.

Different folks have a different acceptable levels of risk, the issue to me is when others get dragged into your level of risk when they may not know the difference. In general in sledding the risk is VERY contained to the one taking it, as unlike skiing where we tend to go up in a group & down in a group (one at a time, but on the same slope) on sleds you choose what YOU are comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by backcountryislife

If that's how they ride up there, that's scary.

How do you mean avy's are part of the game? They're ALWAYS part of the game in the BC, that's reality, but I doubt you hear people saying, "yeah I climbed over my buddy today & set off a slide, it was SOOO cool, think I'll do it again next weekend" I just don't see any of that kind of mentality. I'm on snowest & Backcountryrebels & have never seen anything even close to the type of mentality that you describe. Maybe it's different up in Canada eh? Maybe I'm just making the wrong stereotype.

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The comments are more along the lines of "well it could happen to anyone and it was just an act of nature and part of the risk of being out in the backcountry". It's more ignorance (i know that's a loaded term) then not caring.

and i suspect its just a minority of sledders who have that attitude but their behaviour might impact the recreation of all sledders.



I'm not sure anyone wants this - government regulation.

but it wasn't hard to foresee this incident sparking calls for more regulation http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1500520/

Vibes to all involved...all the finger pointing and fighting here isn't going to change anything....the bottom line is AVI AWARENESS is needed with more of influx of poeple coming into the moutains on sleds, snowboards and skiis.....be safe to all

BCIL I been in boating for longer than I will mention , I never boated more than IV ,know people who do or did (they didn't die they quit ) and while people die in boating accidents every year l don't think ever seen quite the same wide spread attitude of acceptance as in sledding


I think ignorance is a thing of the past ,now they accept the danger and they just don't care


according to the Shock Doctrine NOW is the best time to change things ,joe sledder could have fucked it up for himself which is his own problem cuz I don't own one ...the question is how will it affect the rest of us BC users of crown land in BC ?

The sledders are learning something, they carry the gear and some know how to use it. Its amazing more people weren't hurt or killed.

They now need to learn to respect the snow conditions and terrain.

You can go out in high/considerable, just choose your terrain wisely. But if snow is sliding even in moderate terrain... then it might be best not to go out.

I guess it will take more time for them to figure out the other parts to the equation.
This group didn't consider either.

I think the money the guys over at snow and mud are raising will be for the lawsuits once the blame game starts happening.

Sure does look like they're not going to take responsibility for their decisions.

The Blame game is already beginning.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Av...582/story.html

I find this incident fairly maddening. Yes, it's terrible that people died and it's amazing that it wasn't worse.

I think finger pointing is appropriate, actually. the organizers should have stepped up and called it off, or at the very least, had a roped off area that was a safe zone where spectators had to stay.

It's like someone had a big party in a condemned building. they were given clear warnings about the building being not up to code, that the roof was likely to cave in because it was not supported, and possibly some of the organizers were in construction and knew the building was in terrible shape, but they went ahead, had the party, and the roof caved in. Would people say, oh it's a risk of having parties? No. They would be pissed and the organizers would probably be subject to criminal charges.

eta- it's great that they had gear, but that doesn't change the fact that the event was held where and when it was. A guy who was involved in it was on cbc this morning saying that avys are a risk of the sport, it's an extreme sport, we know it can happen, blahblahblah. Fine. Then mitigate your risks. Keep the spectators safe (do the X games let spectators stand in the middle of the motocross pit? no.) and have your own first aid, searchers, and heli on hand to deal with the potential repercussions. It's one thing if you are doing it on your own, but this was an organized, advertised event.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

BCIL I been in boating for longer than I will mention , I never boated more than IV ,know people who do or did (they didn't die they quit ) and while people die in boating accidents every year l don't think ever seen quite the same wide spread attitude of acceptance as in sledding


I think ignorance is a thing of the past ,now they accept the danger and they just don't care


according to the Shock Doctrine NOW is the best time to change things ,joe sledder could have fucked it up for himself which is his own problem cuz I don't own one ...the question is how will it affect the rest of us BC users of crown land in BC ?

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I agree that NOW IS the time to try to change the way people think about the BC, that's why I talk to people about this kind of thing. I also feel that if more skiers were open minded about sledders being equal users in the BC & they exchanged info & ideas more freely, we would ALL be much better off in the future.
There's a freeheeler that rides where I do and is there nearly as much as I am, this guy & I talk nearly every day about the conditions. I help him find out where it's sketchy & where there's good snow. If others realized that sledders see 100 times the amount of terrain they will on an average day they might be more interested in finding out what they have to share & in talking to the other side you may also find out that they're people, not stupid rednecks. Hell, they MIGHT even give you a yank to the top & save you an hour of touring so you can get another lap!


As for the boating side, I personally feel that it's the EXACT same thing. One of my good friends died again last year (miss you DIRK!!!) and though it was a sad day & we hopefully learn from what happened, we are still boating the same run and have no plans to stop. I've been boating for quite a while & riding BC for MUCH longer, I've lost a number of friends & Acquaintances to class V & V+ & have never (and hope it stays this way) lost a friend on the snow. I think the atmosphere is different, but overall the level of education is likely lower in the river than it is with the average sledder.

Also in the river there is a device that costs less than $30 that could have saved another friend of mine's life, but I only know a few people that carry them, on the other hand I don't know anyone who sleds without a beacon & most are buying or saving for avy packs now.

The quotes by the snowmobiler in the Globe and Mail article are nothing short of ridiculous.

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Rob Blair, a Calgary snowmobiler who has spent decades riding into the outer reaches of British Columbia's powder, compared what he does to skiers "on Warren Miller films. It's basically the same thing, except we're going up," he said.

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Same thing except for the fact that we're not riding 600lb machines with 300+ horsepower.

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Many snowmobilers are worried that the public will see the weekend's tragedy as evidence of gasoline-mad rednecks recklessly playing on the mountain. Anyone - snowmobilers, skiers or snowshoers - encounters avalanche risks in the backcountry, they say. And regulating only snowmobilers is an unfair attack on those who don't possess the athleticism to ski their way into danger.

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It is evidence of gasoline mad rednecks playing recklessly. Has it occurred to anyone that if you don't possess the athleticism or know how to be in the backcountry maybe you shouldn't be in an unguided situation in the first place?

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Snowmobilers pointed out that heli-skiers were also on the mountains this weekend.

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Of course they were, but there wasn't a heli skiing festival where all of the participants were trying to ski down the sketchiest slopes they could find. That coupled with the fact that the spectators were standing at the bottom of a massive avalanche path, and none of the avalanche savvy people made them move. No backcountry skiers died this weekend, and they were all out in the same sketchy snow conditions. It comes down to people making responsible decisions given the parameters defined by the snowpack. Very few responsible decisions were made at the Big Iron Shootout and it is nothing short of a miracle that more people didn't die.

More interesting comments in another G&M story:

Avalanche victims remembered amid questions about event
Nathan VanderKlippe and Josh Wingrove
Revelstoke, B.C. and Edmonton — Globe and Mail Update

It was supposed to be one of the last runs of the day, a shot up the vaunted Turbo Bowl on a high-powered snowmobile by one of the more experienced riders among Nathan Knox's friends.

So, Mr. Knox, 32, joined his girlfriend and seven others from their Calgary-area group to watch their friend, Shay Snortland, attempt the feat on Boulder Mountain in the idyllic ranges of Revelstoke, B.C. Mr. Snortland made it up the hill, but wouldn't make it down alive.

"We all found a good place to watch, and Shay decided he was going to go up, and he got stuck at the top. Our whole group, the other nine of us, were at the bottom watching him waiting for him to come down. And he never came down. Instead, an avalanche did," Mr. Knox told The Globe and Mail Monday.

Well back of the hill stood Mr. Knox and Kurtis Reynolds, a father of two who worked for Mr. Snortland's oil field company. They stared as the avalanche gained steam, rolling towards them and dozens of people attending the event Saturday, known as the Big Iron Shootout.

"Ever been on an airplane when you're flying into a wall of a cloud? It's just a huge wall, looks like a big fluffy cloud. but it ain't soft and fluffy. There's trees, and snowmobiles and people. You're just in a big blender," Mr. Knox said. The avalanche struck them all. Mr. Knox was rolled under, but would soon find himself under only half a foot of snow, able to wriggle free. His girlfriend was "lucky," he says -thrown free and landing atop the snow. Mr. Reynolds wasn't as fortunate, being swept by the rolling snow and dying.

"I'm lucky to be talking to you here today," Mr. Knox said.

Rushing to the scene, veteran snowmobiler Mark Shaede feared the worst.

"It was by far the biggest [avalanche] I've seen on that particular face, if not anywhere on that whole mountain," recounted the owner of Revelstoke Snowmobile Tours Ltd. "It was a once-in-20-years slide, I'm sure."

Both men were married with children, according to interviews and local media reports. Mr. Snortland is survived by his wife Janine, daughter Miya, 6, and daughter Ilea, 4, his sister-in-law told The Globe. Mr. Reynolds also had a wife and two children in tiny Strathmore, Alta., east of Calgary. His wife declined comment Monday, but told the Calgary Sun her husband was just a spectator and novice snowmobiler.

“It was his second time ever on a sled. They just wanted to go watch," she said. "He said, ‘honey, we know, we’ll be careful.'"

Mr. Snortland was a "man's man," Mr. Knox said.

"He would have been the guy, if the shoe would have been on the other foot, he would have been the guy running around, helping get people out. He would have froze himself giving people his clothes and gloves, instead of him wearing them. He was just a very, a really, really - just a good guy."

He said he hadn't spoken with Ms. Snortland or Ms. Reynolds.

"I just can't imagine what they're going through."

A few dozen people were struck by the avalanche. RCMP said in Revelstoke Sunday night that everybody involved is believed to be accounted for, and that the death toll will stay at two, with 30 others injured.

Corporal Dan Moskaluk said police had canvassed hotels, hunted for abandoned vehicles, and had received no reports of anybody missing.

"We're in a far different situation than we were just over 24 hours ago with a report of over 200 people being possibly affected by this slide," he told reporters.

"We're very fortunate ... though we do have two fatalities as a result of this incident."

The Big Iron Shootout is a loosely organized, non-sanctioned annual event. Its organizer is known through the snowmobile community as "Ozone Dave," or Calgary sunglasses store owner David Clark. Mr. Clark's whereabouts where unknown Monday. The phone at his store went unanswered, another line had been disconnected, and the Calgary Herald reported he'd checked out of his Revelstoke hotel.

"I think you're going to find a lot of people who want to know [where he is]," Revelstoke Councillor Steve Bender said. "The last I'd heard, he'd left town."

On Friday, the Canadian Avalanche Centre issued a bulletin warning that avalanche danger was "high" - the second-strongest warning on the centre's five-point danger scale.

"Natural and human-triggered avalanches are likely. Travel in avalanche terrain is not recommended," the bulletin read.

Witnesses said the avalanche was triggered as three thrill-seeking snowmobilers raced each other up a steep slope - a stunt known as high-marking - to see who could go the highest before being forced to turn around.

Yesterday, four search-and-rescue teams, five avalanche dog teams and a slew of other volunteers combed the three-kilometre-long site filled with mangled snowmobiles. Mr. Knox's sled was among them at the site, which he called the "graveyard."

Conditions in the Revelstoke area Saturday were a near-perfect recipe for disaster, avalanche experts say.

Karl Klassen, the public avalanche bulletin manager for the CAC, said trouble began brewing in January, when infrequent dustings dumped layer upon layer of weak snow on Boulder and environs.

A storm blew in Wednesday and reached its peak Friday, with up to 100 centimetres of fresh powder draped over the unstable snow pack beneath.

"Everybody's concerns were elevated," Mr. Klassen said.

"Then, to be quite blunt, all heck broke loose."

All across the region on Friday smaller avalanches swept down mountains - Mr. Klassen stopped counting at 80 where he was working, 50 kilometres south of Boulder - as the snow continued to fall.

Then, on Saturday morning, the weather took the worst possible turn: It cleared up.

The weather was sunny and warm, with enough virgin powder to entice even cautious back-country enthusiasts.

"When you have a beautiful, sunny day after a big storm and it's been a dry winter, lots of people want to get out there and enjoy the new snow," Mr. Klassen said.

Hundreds of extreme snowmobilers were already in Revelstoke, gearing up for the event. Others who come to Revelstoke for the snow, however, said they stayed off the slopes this weekend because conditions were too dangerous.

"It's crazy. I wouldn't go out," said Riley Chapple, who came to Revelstoke to ski all winter.

"There's tonnes of hoarfrost and sun-affected layers and then there's 80 centimetres of snow on top of it," he said, describing what he calls ideal avalanche conditions.

In an interview with a local newspaper, Mr. Snortland's widow is questioning why the event wasn't called off.

"If you go out sledding on your own, you're taking that risk. When you have a planned event they should be taking charge. . . . Obviously, that's not the case," she said. "I think something needs to change."

Though Turbo has produced smaller slides in the past, snowmobilers have been riding it for many years without incident.

Mr. Knox said, however, that he wasn't told about the conditions, but it wouldn't have stopped any of the riders.

"It's hard to prevent things like that because you're in the extreme. You're on the sides of mountains. You're dealing with the force of God. There's nothing you can do," he said. "What happened was just a freak accident, tragedy, just something that you'd wish upon nobody."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eldo

"It's hard to prevent things like that because you're in the extreme. You're on the sides of mountains. You're dealing with the force of God. There's nothing you can do," he said. "What happened was just a freak accident, tragedy, just something that you'd wish upon nobody."

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This sentence sums up why 90% of snowmobilers have the wrong attitude. This accident was entirely preventable, there was a lot they could have done including not highmarking that slope. It was not a freak accident.

I'd like to see it as "a freak accident" as Knox did, but I think most intelligent people can see past that & realize that it was less than freak, and closer to likely that something was going to happen that day.

I hate to admit it, but from the sounds of the interviews that I've heard today I think the culture up there just hasn't evolved in the same way things have around here. Some of the people that I've heard recently have been woefully uninformed.

I was pleasantly surprised to see an organized probe line 15 minutes post-incident; IMO sledders are much more prepared then they have been in the past. My impression is that it's incorrect to paint all sledders with the same brush (whether that brush is as drunken rednecks or whatever). In any community there will be outliers who are indifferent to risk and not overall concerned about safe practises. IMO BIS happened to concentrate that group of outliers in one spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by backcountryislife

I agree that NOW IS the time to try to change the way people think about the BC, that's why I talk to people about this kind of thing.

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anybody I know who BC skis is aware ,sledders seem to be aware and then choose to ignore ,I would help a sledder if he was stuck on the side of the road or out of gas but if he doesn't care where he sleds I'm not going to worry about it


actualy if you read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein and believe her theory it wasnt a good thing ... the greatly simplifyed idea is that the best time to change a bunch of shit is in the after math of a disaster when you got a clean slate & everything is all fucked up

We got a major incident with streaming vid and news on the hr which would be a great time to do something about "the carnage in the mtns"

HOW the BC government could use this incident to make sweeping changes that could come about in light of this incident and how they will affect me as a BC user in BC on crown lands even tho I don't sled is what I am concerned about

In fairness to this poster he claimed to be the organizer in 2009 but maybe was not involved in 2010. Interesting the safety measures they say were in affect.
Re: Big iron shootout 2009

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Originally Posted by GSR
Saw some cool photos on sledshot.com too! What a weekend!! Big shout out to all the organizers lori, I heard you were the event! haha, nice work! we all appreciated it!
I am pretty sure the highlight of the weekend was Lori highmarking the guys with my toboggan! Not sure why the photographers and the helicopter missed me?
Hmmm....Maybe we should hook the sleigh behind the Micku's or some of the turbos and see if it adds a little challenge to the chutes. The riders were making it look far too easy.

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I pasted in a post from SW...the other forum. Hope ya'll don't mind.
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Whether the RSC or the SRS chose to support the BISO or not it was pretty clear that it was coming. Sledding didn't need any more negative stories, so a few of us stepped up to the plate with the hopes to minimize the chances of a wreck. It was a bit of an uphill battle, but following almost an entire week of meetings and phone calls with rescue authorities, heli companies, forestry, RCMP, and local service companies we met the requirements to hold a 'special event'.
We did the best we could with gathering donations at the trail head to cover the safety costs of the day: insurance, medical & rescue gear, lathe, flagging, and admin stuff.

Thanks to Neil McLaren, Shane Render, Mark Shaede, and three others (sorry, I didn't catch your names )for their donations of $100 each. Thanks to Ozone for adding $200 to the pot as well.
A big thanks to the BDSO for paying for the two on hill medics that we arranged for the day. (Whew...that really took the pressure off us!)

Once costs were covered we donated $200 to the Golden Search and Rescue to thank them for lending us rescue gear. Thanks to Kyle Hale, GADSAR leader, for his willingness to assist our efforts.


Also, a $400 donation was offered to the Revelstoke CSPS (Canadian Ski Patrol) for the rescue toboggan, rescue gear and radios that we borrowed. On the suggestion from Ken Gibson of the CSPS, this donation was redirected to the Canadian Avalanche Center (CAC).

Jennifer George accepted our donation on behalf of the Canadian Avalanche Centre.

Important note learned from this weekend: Try to find cute girls to collect donations.
The potential was there to raise substantially more for non-profit backcountry organizations such as these. Oh well, maybe another time. Live and learn.

I think that we accomplished what we set out to do.

The garbage was minimal, the medics were only needed for one dislocated shoulder, and the cut blocks were pretty well respected on Saturday.

Thanks again to Randy Swenson, Dusty Dancer, Stephen Janisch, Miles Oystryk, Steve Olson, Paul Gibbs, Shawn Hamilton, and Shane Head for your help and support. Thanks too, to the guys that helped tear down and store the flagging this weekend. It really was a group effort, Lori & Randy Zacaruk
__________________
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www.zacstracs.com

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Originally Posted by sparkletarte.

I find this incident fairly maddening. Yes, it's terrible that people died and it's amazing that it wasn't worse.

I think finger pointing is appropriate, actually. the organizers should have stepped up and called it off, or at the very least, had a roped off area that was a safe zone where spectators had to stay.

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I'm with ya, a little finger pointing (done fairly, and with the goal to learn from this tragedy rather than find a skape goat) is most definitely appropriate. Especially since all of us who enjoy recreating in BC's backcountry might suffer the consequences of this.

That being said I'm not sure that the blame can be laid entirely at the feet of the very elusive organizer "OZONE Dave" as the media seems to trying to do. This was obviously not a freak accident. Everybody out there had access to a wealth of information advising them this weekend was not the weekend to be pushing it. Every person out there choose, either not to look for that info or to ignore it.

Too bad the widow is playing the blame game. Going to far as to say the municipality should have stepped in? WTF??? She is as ignorant as the rest of them. Sure, they had gear, got a probe line going and saved many lives, but the simple fact remains that they were all unnecessarily exposed to the risk in the first place The number one rule of avalanches is reduced exposure = reduced risk. Sure, some of those 'redneck yahoos' probably are well aware of the risks and would be proud to die doing what they loved, but they must be a very very small minority. Trying to generalize the sledding population can't be done. That 12 year old with stitches on his face and fearing for his life while buried under the snow probably was not aware of the risk. Sounds like we need increased education, which has been the trend over the past few years (the CAA does and awesome job), so at some point hopefully the message will sink in to the general population.