AWD Sedan vs. Compact Crossover SUV

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01-11-2007, 11:14 AM
lemon boy

the only thing sicker than an LR3:
http://www.libroncos.com/phtmp/IMG_0217_t.jpg
01-11-2007, 10:20 PM
72Twenty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

Defender as greatest car of all time is not my appreciation. It was Top Gear's opinion.

I guess they were talking regarding Defender's ability to go anywhere. But I agree, the Range Rover is a better car. Even the Disco II is a better car.

Nevertheless, if you are in the middle of nowhere you don't want a car with a ton of electronics but a more mechanical one that you can repair easily. That's what the Defender is good for. This is not the case of the majority of people (including me) that spend most of his time on pavement.

They were talking from a global explorer perspective. Not from the mindset of yuppie that buys a comfortable SUV.

I like how you still call it a car. :D

I bet you I could go anywhere your Range Rover could go in a good 'ole American 1-ton. Although I would not be listening to classical music and enjoying tea and biscuits with my chum. I'd probably be listening to country music and my chum would be an old dog. ;)
01-12-2007, 02:42 AM
dk_alaskan

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman

I always hear this but I don't understand it, for example the landrover discovery sold in the US gets 12-16 MPG.http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymod...iscovery.shtml Sure diesel will get you somewhat better mileage but not twice as good by any means. and there is no car sold in the US, including hybrids, that will get you close to 70 mpg. What's the deal?

The diesel version of my truck gets about 3x's the mpg as my gas engine does. 21-22 vs 7.5-9 (the .5 REALLY does matter with this truck...)
01-12-2007, 02:44 AM
dk_alaskan

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon boy

the only thing sicker than an LR3:
http://www.libroncos.com/phtmp/IMG_0217_t.jpg

that is SO wrong to do that to a pair of stormriders. Mine just saw the pic and started to cry wax tears
01-12-2007, 10:46 AM
Tony

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72Twenty

I like how you still call it a car. :D

I bet you I could go anywhere your Range Rover could go in a good 'ole American 1-ton. Although I would not be listening to classical music and enjoying tea and biscuits with my chum. I'd probably be listening to country music and my chum would be an old dog. ;)

You forgot the shotgun in the backseat. ;)
01-12-2007, 11:42 AM
Blatant

dick waving....that's all this thread has turned into, and it hurts me. Someone asked a legit question and the collective has high centered on the answer.

;)
01-12-2007, 08:37 PM
72Twenty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blatant

dick waving....that's all this thread has turned into, and it hurts me. Someone asked a legit question and the collective has high centered on the answer.

;)

Meh, it's nothing more than some mud on the tires. :D
01-12-2007, 08:52 PM
iceman

Quote:

Originally Posted by dk_alaskan

The diesel version of my truck gets about 3x's the mpg as my gas engine does. 21-22 vs 7.5-9 (the .5 REALLY does matter with this truck...)

3 times? Gotta be a huge displacement issue, rather than just gas v. diesel. Got links?
01-12-2007, 09:14 PM
wanghoeby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blatant

dick waving....that's all this thread has turned into, and it hurts me. Someone asked a legit question and the collective has high centered on the answer.

;)

Yeah no shit. :biggrin:

Seriously though, FWD car recommendations? Or do I need to create a new thread?
01-12-2007, 09:24 PM
cj001f

FWD: go cheap - Civic or Corolla. The 03-05 Civic had 6.1" ground clearance. Look for something with the 3rd world seal of approval - they are made with shitty roads in mind.
01-12-2007, 09:26 PM
Snow Dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman

3 times? Gotta be a huge displacement issue, rather than just gas v. diesel. Got links?

For everybody except dk_alaskan a Diesel is about 30% better than a gasser, all things being equal. On the other hand, things are almost never equal -- Diesels produce more torque and at a low RPM so if you drive with that in mind you can do even better. A modern Diesel runs at wide open throttle all the time (no throttle plate) and more fuel = more HP. Your milage can be pretty good if you have a light foot.
01-13-2007, 05:33 AM
hemas

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanghoeby

Yeah no shit. :biggrin:

Seriously though, FWD car recommendations? Or do I need to create a new thread?

Yeah, as cf001 said Corolla or Civic would be good bets.

If you can find a S(n)aab 900 with the old body and without rust (wheel-arches and the lower parts of the door, plus where the window connects to the bonnet/boot), that thing is really good (even on snow).

Volvo 850, would also be a pretty good option (don't get the R-version as it is lowered and thus not good for rugged roads).

VW Golf IV (~2000 or so, before they came out with the Golf V) has also pretty good ground clearance and since the Mark IV has been on the market for ages, most problems on it have been fixed.
01-13-2007, 10:37 AM
DB

Want a 4x4 Subaru you can afford ...

http://www.fahrzeugmarkt.ch/img/z993..._Justy_G3X_1.5
01-13-2007, 05:28 PM
frorider

has the suzuki sx4 been discussed yet in this thread?

http://www.suzukiauto.com/sr_07/sx4/

under 15K decently equipped, selectable AWD. mag reviews agree that although it is slightly underpowered, the suspension and handling are quite good. also i think it comes with 100k / 7 year warranty.

http://www.suzukiauto.com/_m/sr_07/g.../views/506.jpg
01-13-2007, 07:29 PM
Optimus_Prime

Anyone driven a Jeep Compass? It seems like a nice mix of 4x4 capability and gas mileage
01-13-2007, 10:41 PM
Bullet

There are a lot of good used options - I'd go with a Volvo XC70. An AWD XC from 2000 will cost you around $12K. A new one = $37K.

I've had a '98 S70 FWD (Sedan version) since '98. Gets 28 hwy mpg. And with some careful driving, I've had it up some pretty nasty low-maintained dirt roads. Although there have been a few where I had to walk the last 2 miles. The XC has more ground clearnce - 7"-8" which is about as much as most 4x4 SUVs. With a good set of PepBoys Cables, I've never had a problem in the snow.

A '98 S70 sells for around $5K depending on mileage. I had the seats on mine redone - cost me $2K. The interior looks like new.

Still have it - it will be the girl's "learning to drive car". But for me, I went big - '07 Nissan Titan 4x4 King Cab OffRoad model with 12" of clearance. More than I need but everything I want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime

Anyone driven a Jeep Compass? It seems like a nice mix of 4x4 capability and gas mileage

Inline 4 cyl. 158hp. Sucks going uphill.

If MPG is going to be a major factor in your decision, here's a great source: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm Ratings from 1985 to the new models of 2007 and a bunch of ways to search the data. If you click on the "Print Fuel Economy Guide" link at the top of the page, you can scan through all the makes/models/styles/2wd/4wd, etc.
01-14-2007, 08:41 AM
wanghoeby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullet

There are a lot of good used options - I'd go with a Volvo XC70. An AWD XC from 2000 will cost you around $12K. A new one = $37K.

I've had a '98 S70 FWD (Sedan version) since '98. Gets 28 hwy mpg. And with some careful driving, I've had it up some pretty nasty low-maintained dirt roads. Although there have been a few where I had to walk the last 2 miles. The XC has more ground clearnce - 7"-8" which is about as much as most 4x4 SUVs. With a good set of PepBoys Cables, I've never had a problem in the snow.

What is maintenance like for Volvos? Expensive? More like Audi or Subaru?
01-14-2007, 11:16 AM
skinnyskier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullet

Jeep Liberty
Inline 4 cyl. 158hp. Sucks going uphill.

They did make a 2.8L diesel version in 05 and 06: 160 HP and 295 ft lbs torque. I think they cancelled it for emissions reasons.
01-14-2007, 01:41 PM
Bullet

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanghoeby

What is maintenance like for Volvos? Expensive? More like Audi or Subaru?

I don't know compared to Audi. But compared to all the others - much better than SAAB and about the same as all the Asian models. This is not my data, but comes from talking to my mechanic who works on all makes of Swedish and Asian vehicles (Swedish-Asian Auto in Santa Ana). The Volvos last 4ever. Mine has 182,000 miles on it - 9 years old.

They are an inline 5 cyl engine. A 60,000 Mile Tune-up (the major, major service interval) costs ~$600. I run synthetic oil in mine and only change it every 5,000 miles - I rotate the tires then as well. Use Volvo brake pads is my best advice.

In my opinion, what makes the Volvo a nice choice, is that they haven't changed the styling much over the past 10 years on the XC. Even on the interior, my S70 doesn't look all that different from the XC90 or XC70 It doesn't look like you are driving a 10 year old car. Second thing I like is that because it is a luxury sedan/wagon, it has nice touches - heated seats, cruise control, leather, dual climate controls, 8 way power seats, etc. that you get in high-end vehicles. If the seating surfaces are worn, you can replace them and the car looks new on the inside.

My S70 is great in the snow.

Finally, if I didn't want a truck so badly, I would have bought the XC70. It has 8.2" of ground clearance, gets 25 mpg hwy. A jeep Liberty has 9.4" of ground clearance, and Audi Q7 has 8.1" and Suby Outback has 8.7", and a Pathfinder has 8.8".

I drove the Outback and the Pathfinder - I like the handling of the XC better. Feels more stable. The Q7 was out of my price range. In the end, I went with the Titan ('cause I've wanted a 4x4 truck for decades).

I'm keeping the my S70 though. Using it for commute time and for the kids' learning car.

Very smooth and solid car. I grew up on Suby wagons. To me, the Volvo is a much more stable vehicle. I've had mine up over 100mph and it just cruises (not that I advocate driving that fast) ;)

Probably a lot more data than what you asked. But in my opinion, of used car options, I'd say at least take a look at the Volvo. In the end, you have to like what you are driving - and that is all personal preference.

Here's a sample of what I mean:

1999 version selling for $9,000 - you can replace the ugly wood grain dash accents for about $200. My S70 has the exact same cockpit - without the wood trim.
http://images.autotrader.com/images/..._A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/..._A.561x421.jpg

2006 version selling for $35,995
http://images.autotrader.com/images/..._A.565x377.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/..._A.565x376.jpg
01-14-2007, 02:09 PM
peterslovo

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanghoeby

Right, I've drove several FWD's that performed quite well. However not sure how they'd like old forest service roads.

Any FWD recommendations that would take the off road abuse?

Find a used VW TDI Jetta Wagon, add some good snow tires, some non-stock shocks that can take a bit of abuse, and a 2-3" lift kit and you are set. With diesel, you get 40-45 mpg and will handle almost anything. A friend of mine did this to his and although the on-road handling suffered a touch with the addition of the lift and shocks, it only set him back $500 and he basically has a FWD offroad vehicle that gets great mileage and still handles well.

I run my TDI just with good snow tires and it handles snow great, but you definitely need the lift kit to handle the heavy off roads (it just doesn't have the clearance and the pan hangs a little low).

Only problem is the TDI wagons are a bit hard to find now and won't be re-released in the US until 08.
01-14-2007, 08:38 PM
wanghoeby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullet

Probably a lot more data than what you asked. But in my opinion, of used car options, I'd say at least take a look at the Volvo. In the end, you have to like what you are driving - and that is all personal preference.

No way man, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a bunch.

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