AWD Sedan vs. Compact Crossover SUV

**wanghoeby** · 12-31-2006, 04:43 PM

Yeah, I know, yet another AWD thread… I’ve done my searching so hopefully no need for flaming.

After my last summer of taking my Nissan 240sx to too many places that a RWD sports coupe shouldn’t ever find itself in, I’ve decided to upgrade my auto a few years ahead of schedule. In light of the vast amount of back-roads I’ll be driving on, an AWD is a must, in addition to getting decent mileage (at least high 20’s) so no trucks or turbos. Fitting all my shit into a coupe wasn’t much fun either so a mid-sized sedan will also be necessary. Some personal preferences would be to get something with less than 100k and as new as possible while obviously keeping cost in mind. Oh yeah, no wagons, nothing personal.

My current ideas:

2000+ Subaru Legacy Sedan

Compact SUV i.e. Escape, Vue, Tribute…
Unfortunately this option is slightly out of price range

Purchase an older, cheaper Audi and keep the extra cash for the inevitable cost associated with one.

Am I forgetting anything else?

**Raps** · 12-31-2006, 04:46 PM

If i were you i would go the AWD sedan route.........the crossovers or whatever might have more room, but in terms of AWD performance i think a Suby or Audi will be better.........i'm a sucker for Audis so i say an older Audi but this board is filled with Suby lovers too so i'm sure you'll hear a lot of that

**IGigron** · 12-31-2006, 05:09 PM

I've got an Audi and the new RAV with the V6 (yum

. It'll be hard to beat the AWD of Audi though - the RAV only has PT 4WD, mostly FWD. But it is more convenient in terms of size and such (bigger than the old ones).

**rtp** · 12-31-2006, 05:14 PM

i've got a 2003 Vue with AWD. It has plenty of space and works great. Gets about 24 mpg. Only complaint I have is you cannot get and aftermarket roof rack (i.e. yakima or thule) for it. you have to buy the saturn version and as soon as you get anything bigger than ski's up there, like a bike it does not work all that great.

**iceman** · 12-31-2006, 05:57 PM

Why not a AWD wagon like an outback or an allroad?

**Snow Dog** · 12-31-2006, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by wanghoeby

Yeah, I know, yet another AWD thread… I’ve done my searching so hopefully no need for flaming.

In light of the vast amount of back-roads I’ll be driving on, an AWD is a must, in addition to getting decent mileage (at least high 20’s) so no trucks or turbos.

Define "backroads". Up here backroads = logging roads = cross ditches. For those conditions you care about ground clearance, and approach/departure angles. For a true mini-suv there's the (discontined) Chevy Tracker/Suzuki Vitara or the Toyota Rav4. Ford Escape and Subaru Forester are nice too.

**wanghoeby** · 12-31-2006, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Snow Dog

Define "backroads". Up here backroads = logging roads = cross ditches. For those conditions you care about ground clearance, and approach/departure angles. For a true mini-suv there's the (discontined) Chevy Tracker/Suzuki Vitara or the Toyota Rav4. Ford Escape and Subaru Forester are nice too.

Logging roads pretty much sums it up. The biggest problems that I ran into were wetness and ground clearance going over rocks. Snow handling will definetly be an issue in the future as the midwest will only be my home for the next one to two years.

**serge944** · 12-31-2006, 11:47 PM

At least high 20's MPG? That pretty much eliminates all SUVs except for hybrids. Not cheap.

You are seriously disadvantaging yourself by overlooking wagons.

You want an efficient, reliable, relatively inexpensive AWD sedan - pretty much your only option is an H4 subaru.

Audi's are not known for stellar fuel economy, especially older ones with CIS injection.

**StinkyD** · 01-01-2007, 12:20 AM

Suby or RAV4. The new V6 RAV4 is surprisingly quick (0-60 < 6.5 seconds I would guess). I wouldn't gamble on the Audi.

**uncle crud** · 01-01-2007, 12:22 AM

nothin' spells Poseur or Gaper better than

SUV

don't forget your sticker-laden "rocket box" and your multiple cell phone antennas.

**Flexon Phil** · 01-01-2007, 04:05 AM

A used Audi will kill your ski funds in upkeep. A used Subie is the no-brainer choice. The regular 4 cyl is fine, you don't need the H6. For your logging roads, i would suggest the Outback sedan over the regular Legacy or LGT.

**Idris** · 01-01-2007, 08:37 AM

Reading the mpg's in this thread makes me cringe. My landrover discovery diesel gets 30-32 mpg and is considered very bad. AWD waggons here get 50-65mpg, small AWD cars get 70+, but will still drag 4 + ski gear up skifield road.

**vano** · 01-01-2007, 08:41 AM

This probably is not what you are looking for, but I'll throw it out there anyway. I have been using my wife's Toyota Matrix with part time 4WD for ski trips and love it. I always get over 30mpg, it has way more room than you would think, on par with most small SUVs, and costs $18k new nicely equiped.

I have a set of snow tires for it - and its a total snowmobile, even with the crappy 4wd system. I routinely spank EC gapers in $70K Range Rovers (on all seasons) with the Matrix on Blizzaks. What good is a fance AWD system if all 4 tires have turned pastic cause of the cold?

**IGigron** · 01-01-2007, 11:49 AM

the RAV gets 25 Hwy and 268 hp (both better than the A6). But it's a bit girly in the interior which is why the Mrs uses it mostly. Subarus were too small for me - headroom and such.

If you want cheaper maybe a used wagon as someone suggested. The Matrix was just too slow when I tried it but if you don't care about that it could be OK.

As far as diesel cars, we can't buy them here in Mass - emissions.

**dr_scrotus** · 01-01-2007, 12:18 PM

My experience is limited to a Honda CRV (not AWD), but I recommend staying away from compact SUVs. My 1996 180,000 mile Volvo 850 drives much better than the CRV, and it has vastly more usable space. I'm not suggesting you buy an old Volvo for snow, but I just don't think there is any comparison between a wagon (or a sedan for that matter) and these raised and detuned hatchbacks that have somehow found a niche in the market. Reliability factors considered (I'd love an 850R / V70R for driving experience and space, but they're expensive to maintain), I'd go for a Subaru. I have also heard good things about the Matrix from the one owner I have talked to, and he thought it might actually be fun with a manual transmission.

Z · 01-01-2007, 12:31 PM

If you NEED the clearance go for a truck. If you drive mostly highways, snowpacked, etc., a lower center of gravity with snowtires will own(subie).

**iceman** · 01-01-2007, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Idris

Reading the mpg's in this thread makes me cringe. My landrover discovery diesel gets 30-32 mpg and is considered very bad. AWD waggons here get 50-65mpg, small AWD cars get 70+, but will still drag 4 + ski gear up skifield road.

I always hear this but I don't understand it, for example the landrover discovery sold in the US gets 12-16 MPG.http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymod...iscovery.shtml Sure diesel will get you somewhat better mileage but not twice as good by any means. and there is no car sold in the US, including hybrids, that will get you close to 70 mpg. What's the deal?

**hemas** · 01-01-2007, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

I always hear this but I don't understand it, for example the landrover discovery sold in the US gets 12-16 MPG.http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymod...iscovery.shtml Sure diesel will get you somewhat better mileage but not twice as good by any means. and there is no car sold in the US, including hybrids, that will get you close to 70 mpg. What's the deal?

Well VW Polo (5door) with SE 1.4TDI 80PS (select from the drop-down menu) seems to rate at 61 MPG (combined): http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new_cars/polo/engines#

Heck, even Toureg (3.0 liter TDI) clocks 26.9 MPG (and it's gas sibling 3.6 liter sibling gets 20.8 MPG).

Plus I think the Disco Idris has, is a 2.5 liter TDI (manual)... Not 4.6 liter V8 (gas) automatic.

**frorider** · 01-01-2007, 04:39 PM

dudes, make sure you're understanding Miles per Gallon correctly. UK publishes figures based on their imperial gallon (which is 1.2 US gallons).

**hemas** · 01-01-2007, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by frorider

dudes, make sure you're understanding Miles per Gallon correctly. UK publishes figures based on their imperial gallon (which is 1.2 US gallons).

Why the hell can't you guys just use liters

. After all, everybody is always talking about 4.6 liter V8's and so on...

And start using REAL units for length... Everybody measures the skis in CM, yet you go on and on about inches and feets

.

[/end rant]

**comish** · 01-01-2007, 04:48 PM

The other thing is the Polo is smaller than anything sold in the US from VW. So teeny tiny car with sewing machine engine = good gas mileage.

I think the main difference is in Yurp they sell a lot of models with tiny DIESEL engines. Small + diesel = mo better gas mileage. Now that same thing will be about as fun as well a yugo

to drive, but they do get good mileage...

**Spats** · 01-01-2007, 08:35 PM

The main problem is that most Americans consider anything that can't tow a horse trailer "underpowered" and won't buy it, even if they never load their 4x4 Quad Cab down with anything more than a few bags of groceries and a venti mocha.

I drive a 4 cylinder truck. All the reviews called the 4-cylinder horribly underpowered and basically said it was worthless without a six. The only time I've ever not been able to go full freeway speed was when I was towing a 4x8 box trailer, had everything I owned in either the truck bed or the trailer, and was driving over the Sierras.

That's happened twice in over 100K miles. The rest of the time, I'm happy to get 24-28 MPG versus the 17-22 I'd get with the six, because it's saved me about $2500 in gas. That's a season pass every winter, not to mention the smaller environmental impact.

I'd drive the diesel if I could get it, but we haven't had low sulfur diesel fuel until this year. I'm hoping we can get some of these great European diesel cars and trucks, but because of all the other Americans who think they need to tow a horse trailer, I'm not holding my breath.

**dr_scrotus** · 01-01-2007, 08:44 PM

I'm hoping we can get some of these great European diesel cars and trucks

No kidding, and it's not just the diesels--they seem to have it better in many aspects over there. I'm not sure if you are familiar with Top Gear/Fifth Gear, (entertaining/romanticized BBC TV shows available on youtube/bittorrent), but they go into this, and it's amazing what is withheld from the US market, even by domestic manufacturers.

even if they never load their 4x4 Quad Cab down with anything more than a few bags of groceries and a venti mocha.

The number of huge engined trucks in the rich Westchester County, NY suburb I live in seems to have grown recently. Aside from the workers who use pickup trucks/SUVs (and most don't, Fuso's with six people in them is far more common), I've never seen anything, let alone a venti mocha, in the bed of a truck. It is troubling to see cars of all sizes and types growing in weight and size. I love driving fast, but I hate that most performance cars require you to drag around a few thousand pounds of extra weight. How do you think a lowered RWD 4 cylinder pickup truck would drift?

**wanghoeby** · 01-01-2007, 08:59 PM

Well, it looks like no one is too impressed with compact SUV's, so I guess they're out.

Spats, what kind of truck do you drive and is it AWD?

As for Audis, I guess I'm pretty unframiliar with them so any model suggestions or things/years to stay away from?

**hutash** · 01-01-2007, 11:23 PM

I like Audi. A4 four door sedan, or A4 Avant (wagon). Great cars, great AWD systems (best on the market IMO). Much nicer finish detail then subies. More expensive to buy and maintain, but if you get one, get an extended warranty.