Salomon Warden 13 MNC *DEMO* paper template?

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Originally Posted by Duffman

For a daily driver that will see a lot of EC hardback and shit conditions (Enforcer 94), any real downside other than the extra 1/2 lb weight to the W13 demo vs regular.? Any long term durability issues?

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I'm not a big user of the W13, but I've got a few mounted. I honestly can't see any reason not to run any modern demo. The Warden is, IMO, one of the better demos out there, but all are pretty good.
Finding tracks for the Marker demo's is easier (Marker will sell them without any fuss) than Warden or Attacks, so that would be a benefit for Marker - if that's something you need.

So, yeah, demos are just plain nice to have. And I don't have any "light" skis anyway - so the extra weight (on, for example, my Bodacious 196's) seems trivial. Easy to share a ski, sell etc.

@RAB3 - you're totally welcome! Glad it worked out for you!

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Originally Posted by RAB3

If you’re still looking for a pair, I might have one. Just give me a few days to figure out if I’m going to use it or not.

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PM’ed. thanks!

I printed the v1.4 toe piece template from the first post. Front and back holes measure 82mm on printout, but side to side holes only measure 30mm. If I scale up so that side holes measure 32mm on printout front and back holes measure 85mm on printout. So something's off, for me anyway.

Ideas/comments?

Since no-one else has a comment, let me see what I can find. (I've pretty much completely moved to the Attack2, and haven't mounted a pair of these in ages, and don't have a pair to examine easily either.) And no-one has complained about the template, since I last updated a couple of years ago..so I'm puzzled.

Ok, I see the issue you're talking about. (Toe holes are printed as 32mm wide, and when printed to proper scale, are only 30mm wide.)
But if I look at the previous template version, the toes say 30mm, and print at 30mm. (And I'm not sure if 30 or 32 is right.)

Do you have a pair of calipers and could measure the widths again? (Using the binding.)
To get center-to-center: Measure the diameter of one of the holes. Zero the caliper. Measure the width, outside to outside. The reading is the center-to-center width.

Thanks!

Don't have calipers, but I measured the demo plate holes center-center using a mm ruler and the toe piece holes are 30mm side to side and 82mm front to back. The heel piece holes are 32mm side to side on the front holes and 33mm side to side on the rear holes, and 104mm front to back when the moveable rear hole mounts are centered.

These are 2021 **Atomic** Warden 13 MNC Demo bindings. I had assumed for mounting purposes they would be the same as the Salomons. No prob on that, or mistake on my part?

I bought these bindings late in 2021 for a pair of used skis I picked up about 3 years ago, just before Covid hit. Finally getting around to mounting them up. Sans jig or paper template a while back I did a test mount on a board, using the plates as templates. Basically just experimented till I thought I had the front and rear plate spacing right.

I ended up with 233mm measured center-center from rear holes on toe piece to front holes on heel piece, which also yields 50mm from rear of toe plate to front of heel plate. (The latter useful to me as I moved the plates around to avoid previous mount holes on the skis.) I clicked in a few boots of different sizes and they all showed the forward pressure indicator in the middle of the acceptable range.

Attachment 443771

As others here have expressed I am potentially interested in using a single set of bindings with plates installed on multiple skis, (that is if I were ever able to obtain additional plates), which might require changing brakes. A cursory try to pop the brakes out failed. Didn't push it cause I didn't want to, er, break them.

Has anyone popped the brakes out of the heel once they've been clicked into place? If so any wisdom to share on how to do that?

The brakes pop in and out of the Salomon Warden 13/STH2 heel with ease. Do it all the time as I move bindings to new skis of different widths. Just a little wiggle and slight twist and the brake unit comes apart from the heel.

TLDR; The template is "right" - but some of the printing is wrong. (i.e. the toe holes state 32mm, but 32mm is wrong, 30mm [the *actual* output] is right.)

So, I think I just need to modify the printing on the toe of 32mm to 30mm and we're good.
(My guess is that I mixed up the toe and heel printing and got 32 on the toe too, instead of 30mm)

If you're worried, do a test mount on a 2x4. But BM and quite a few other people have mounted since the last template release and I've not had anyone say it was wrong.
If you do mount, just let me know that it worked (or not) and then I'll do my best to update the template as needed.

-Greg

BTW, the Soly/Atomic etc are all the same binding. Just different branding.
However, the Warden 11 Demo is NOT the same pattern.

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If anyone has an unmounted pair and calipers, it would be handy if you could measure the binding screws.
Length for each set + head size (diameter and head-depth and style)
I'll add it to the initial post.

I've done this for the Attack1/2 demo, so if anyone needs replacement screws it's documented. Would be nice to have for the Warden too, IMO.

TIA

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Originally Posted by gregorys

If anyone has an unmounted pair and calipers, it would be handy if you could measure the binding screws.
Length for each set + head size (diameter and head-depth and style)

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If you had posted this 2 days ago, I would have done so gladly. Thanks for the excellent template.

I was able to check the printed (and scaled appropriately) toe and heel templates with the demo plates and they look good. It's gonna be a few weeks at least before I can get to actually mounting, but when I do I'll report back if there are any issues. Should be fine - thx for providing the templates!

FWIW in lieu of someone providing something more precise here are a few specs on the binding screws, measured as best I can with a ruler...

Flat Head Pozidriv #3
9mm Diameter Head / 3mm Head Depth
Toe piece screws 13mm
Heel piece screws 20mm
(Measured top of head to tip)

Attachment 443998

@fomoto

An excuse to buy a tool, if you needed one! :)
Cheap digital calipers are *very* handy to have around and are pretty cheap at Harbor Freight, Amazon and Ebay. (As well as other places, but those are the ones that come to mind quickly.)

Good suggestion - time to wake up and join the 21st century. :wink: Those things are indeed ridiculously inexpensive now, at least for the low end models. I'm sure I'll find a multitude of uses once I have one.

Earlier in the thread some folks mentioned possibly 3D printing demo plates, so a single pair of bindings could be used with multiple pairs of skis. I could see doing that with something like the old Railflex plates, as those were almost exclusively just two chunks of hard plastic, but the Warden MNC demo plates have integrated metal tracks that metal pieces on the underside of the toe and heel bindings mate with. How does that work, exactly?

P.S. Bandit Man, thx for the tip on popping the brake out. Don't need it at the moment, but could come in handy if I ever do need to swap.

LMK what you need measured.
Attachment 444485

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Originally Posted by dcpnz

LMK what you need measured.

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Just measure the binding screw lengths and head diameters.
I'll add those details to the first post.
I think those are flat-head right?

Thanks!

BTW, I just edited the template and updated the toe spacing text to say 30mm, instead of the incorrect 32mm. Since nothing other than text changed on the template it's now v1.4.1 for the toe. No changes to any dimensions etc.

Thanks for the correction @fomoto!

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Originally Posted by gregorys

Just measure the binding screw lengths and head diameters.
I'll add those details to the first post.
I think those are flat-head right?

Thanks!

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All flat heads
Toes 9mm head x 13mm
Heel 9mm head x 21mm

Note: Rounded up - everything actually measured about 0.3mm less than stated above.
And not that it should matter but this is from a 2011 Armada Warden 13 MNC Demo

Cool thanks.

I just ran into an unexpected issue.
I thought all brakes for sth2, Warden and Warden 13 Demo were interchangeable. Apparently not.
I have one pair that has a rounded bump on the bottom of the center support piece that interferes with the front of the Demo heel.
Murphy’s law that it just happens to be the one width I need to put on my demos that doesn’t work …..
I have checked ten other pairs and they all have the rounded bump above the center piece.

Attachment 445930Attachment 445931

STH2 heel plates have a channel for it, Demo heels have the extended plastic piece that interferes.
Attachment 445932
Attachment 445933

Ran into that once myself. I ground it off. Nobody died. Maybe I was lucky? [emoji6]

Yep, grinding it off was the plan - but swapping brakes with a STH2 proved to be even easier.
Only affects one set out of the dozen in my family’s fleet so appears uncommon and maybe addressed over time.

Thanks greg for the templates. Any idea how the brake compatibility goes? Can demo and non demo use the same brakes? What about between Warden 11 demo and Warden 13 demo?

All STH2 style heels have compatible brakes (STH2, Warden 13, Guardians). Warden 11 is different and screws the whole thing up.

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Originally Posted by Bandit Man

All STH2 style heels have compatible brakes (STH2, Warden 13, Guardians). Warden 11 is different and screws the whole thing up.

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Good to know, thanks

Let me know if I'm technically challenged or if I'm doing something wrong. Looking for the Warden 13 MNC demo binding template. It should be in this thread but the post with it on looks empty to me.

Edit: You are correct, thanks. It wasn't appearing on Mobile. I appreciate you taking the time for a 'basic' issue.