Salomon Warden 13 MNC *DEMO* paper template?

[gregorys]

Update 2023-01-31
Someone noticed that the toe spacing was printed as 32mm, but actually measured 30mm. Since 30mm was the correct spacing, updated the template to simply reflect the actual 30mm spacing. No physical dimension changes, only fixed a typo.


Other details:
Occasionally someone needs screws; one got lost in shipping etc. So, it is handy to know the size, etc.
So, here's the screw sizing. (Thanks @dcpnz)

Toes 9mm head x 13mm length
Heel 9mm head x 21mm length

Also the Warden 11 demo uses it's own pattern.
Don't try to mount Warden 11 demos with this template!
===
Prior thread/post history...

Update 2020-03-09
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Pushed up a new version 1.4.
It looks like there might have been an error in the 1.3 version. [toe-to-heel spacing appeared to be off by 5mm each (too close)]


Update 2109-12-13
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Updating the PDF with a few very minor tweaks.
New version is v1.3
I've mounted a couple of these myself, and they mounted fine.
I think the only change to the most current version is a spacing of the front set of heel screws. I think I moved the boot center a bit too, though I think it was only slightly off before [<=2mm reported, my mounts seemed fine.].

I'm replacing the template with the newest - this first post should always contain the latest template. [Provided I'm not being a bonehead and forgetting to update it!]

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(The old posts below, are here for historical purposes, but may not apply any more.)

Looking to mount some demo Warden 13 MNC's [not WTR] and looking for a template.
If there isn't any - could someone with a shop jig measure the distance between the *rear* screws on the *toe-piece* and the *front* screws on the *heel piece* - and I'll work on a template myself.

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UPDATE 2017.09.28
I did end up producing the template myself. Multiple test mounts, and a final mount on a pair of Bliizard Dakota's [the old version with metal...] produce great results. Feedback is positive. This should be a good template. As always, a test mount on a 2x4 is pretty cheap insurance.

[gregorys]

TTT: I've managed to get a working template [mostly by trial and error] that appears to get the right spacing, but I don't have boots that cover anything but the lower third of the range - so I don't know if my spacing will produce the proper back-pressure at, say BSL of 350 or something. Theoretically it should - but I'd really like a measurement from a jig.

Come on, there's got to be someone who could step into the shop and measure the jig. Literally 5m to grab a ruler and do it. [BTW: My estimated/calculated spacing from the rear screws on the toe-piece to the front screws of the heel-piece is 233mm.]

[lemonhead]

Bump as I would be interested as well.

[detrusor]

Ditto

[gregorys]

@lemonhead @detrusor

I'm glad to send you the template I've got. [It is prettier than the last one I did, the Attack 13 demo, from last year - but it's still not a thing of wonder to look at.]

If I were to bet $20, I would bet it's close enough. I might be off a mm or two, in the boot-center or the toe-to-heel spacing, but I think it's pretty close.

So, if you do have the binding, you could do a test mount on a 2x4 and see how it works for you, with a different set of bindings and different boots. I'd be super interested in your feedback.

[gregorys]

I'll just toss the unverified template here. [EDIT: Removed because of changes...]

Please, if you do a test mount, let me know how it went. I'd like to get verification of the template accuracy so I can finalize. I should note that I've done 5-6 test mounts on scrap wood to get it to the state it's in now - so it's not completely untried. But as noted above, I've only been able to test on a BSL of 295 at the largest and something around 270 at smallest. I'd like a large BSL boot test, showing that it also produces proper back-pressure at the larger end of the range.

Once I have some feedback, I'll update the template for a "beta" release.

===
WARNING:
Template is unverified. Use at your own risk.
On scrap wood, test-mounts do, grasshopper!

[gregorys]

TTT
Ok, last try.

I've managed to test my template with boots from around 270 to 330 - and back-pressure is within the range for all those boots.

I'd still like a Jong to measure a shop jig for me - because it would be more deterministic than "I'm pretty sure it's right."

That said, unless someone steps up and gets me measurements, I'll be mounting with the template I have now - I'm happy with it - even if it isn't based on measurements from an actual jig...

---
As an aside: Accuracy between toe and heel pieces is actually more important on a demo binding than a regular one, since if you're off on a regular binding, you just won't be in the middle of the range of adjust for the heel. On a demo binding, if you're off by much, the binding is going to produce bad back-pressures at every marked BSL.

It's possible to work around this, but it's annoying. [I actually have a pair of skis where the shop mounted the demo's wrong, and the bindings are about 18mm smaller than the markings. Gack. I picked them up used and didn't realize the fault until I'd had them in-hand for months - so there wasn't a lot I could do about it.]

Can someone who has shop access please measure the Warden MNC *DEMO* jig for me please - so I can finalize the paper template!

[gregorys]

Updated template, prior to getting measurements, just in case someone wants to "test" it.
I would consider this a late-beta-level template.

===
WARNING:
Template is unverified. Use at your own risk.
On scrap wood, test-mounts do, grasshopper!

[Edited to remove old template, see later post for updated version...]

[lemonhead]

I have skis on the way, and plenty of stuff scrap lumber to try on.

[gregL]

If there isn't any - could someone with a shop jig measure the distance between the *rear* screws on the *toe-piece* and the *front* screws on the *heel piece*

206mm center to center on our jig (red demo holes)

[gregorys]

Something's not right.
I've got 231mm.

We're talking the Soly Warden 13 MNC Demo binding?
[I'm suddenly wondering if glue fumes have messed me up more greatly than I appreciate - since 206mm doesn't seem anywhere even close to a possibility.]

...A few minutes later:
I've checked my work several different ways, and cannot see how 206mm could be a possibility. At all. Can you check that again? Take a pic with the ruler in the pic too?

[gregL]

Something's not right.
I've got 231mm.

My bad, set for the 11 demo - I get 230 or 231mm.

[gregorys]

My bad, set for the 11 demo - I get 230 or 231mm.

Ok, good. I was starting to question my sanity.
Thanks! It's nice to know I nailed the measurement just, essentially, eye-balling it.

Let me do one final test, at 230mm and see how that goes.

Being off by 1mm is probably a complete non-issue, especially in the "too-long" direction. Too-long would produce a little less back-pressure, which might result in a slightly worse retention/elasticity in a marginal situation. But it wouldn't have too much back-pressure and perhaps not release when it should.

All that said, doing one final check is probably worth it.

-Greg

[gregorys]

So, this is a "final" version unless someone has some significant changes that need addressing.
I did a mount at the suggested 230mm, and while it's fine, it's probably on the "tight" end of back-pressure.

So, we'll leave things as they were, at 231mm between the back toe screws, and the front heel screws.
Template updated to v0.9.

Feedback appreciated for the good of the community who might use this template!

-Greg

[gregorys]

@lemonhead

I thought I saw notification of a reply from you, but now it's gone?
If you got a chance to mount, even a test one - was everything reasonable?

-Greg

[lemonhead]

That's weird the post is now gone...tried 231on a 2x4 and forwarded pressure was perfect for both boots I tried. BSL 284 and 296. I didn't have anything larger to test. If it was a ski I would have skied without any concern.

[gregorys]

Thanks. I did my final mount on real skis, and it went well. Template is now "release" quality. Version 1.1

The initial post on the thread has the latest attachment/version. If you have an earlier version, please download the latest 1.1 version!

-Greg

[lemonhead]

@gregorys thanks for putting this together.

[detrusor]

Thanks man, I've got some skis I want to experiment w the mount point, have the bindings!


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[SupreChicken]

Shroom and I were mounting some of our friend's, wife's, dad's own fucking skis last night. Turns out the warden 11 heel is different that the warden 13 heel. We didn't measure. Or take a photo. But the warden 11 heel holes are narrower/closer together (width) and farther apart (length) than the 13/sth2 heel holes.

[gregorys]

Shroom and I were mounting some of our friend's, wife's, dad's own fucking skis last night. Turns out the warden 11 heel is different that the warden 13 heel. We didn't measure. Or take a photo. But the warden 11 heel holes are narrower/closer together (width) and farther apart (length) than the 13/sth2 heel holes.

Without any measurements etc - I can't do much to address it.
So, were these the Warden 11 DEMO's? or just standard Warden 11s?

[meepmoop24]

Just used this template to mount Warden 13 demos and tested it with a 306mm BSL and 260mm BSL. Even though 260 is smaller than what is officially supported, the forward pressure was still within spec.

Does anyone know where to get additional mounting plates? It would be awesome to have multiple plates and be able to swap the bindings from ski to ski.

[gregorys]

Just used this template to mount Warden 13 demos and tested it with a 306mm BSL and 260mm BSL. Even though 260 is smaller than what is officially supported, the forward pressure was still within spec.

Thanks. It's good to get feedback, verifying the template is good.

Does anyone know where to get additional mounting plates? It would be awesome to have multiple plates and be able to swap the bindings from ski to ski.

Now that's a beautiful idea! Unfortunately, I'm not sure. If you locate a source, details like whom, and pricing would be great.

[lemonhead]

Thanks. It's good to get feedback, verifying the template is good.



Now that's a beautiful idea! Unfortunately, I'm not sure. If you locate a source, details like whom, and pricing would be great.

I would be interested in those as well!

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[JuiceboxHero]

Hey gregorys, thanks for making this template! I was about to use it to mount a pair of Warden MNC 13 demos and may have noticed a couple small errors. It's unlikely that they would cause any issues, I just wanted to see if you (or anyone else) could double check.

When I placed the heel plate onto the template, it looked like the top holes (closes to the center line) were a bit closer together than on the template. I measured them to be 32mm, center to center, instead of 33mm. Not sure why Salomon did this, the back holes measure at 33mm for me as well. I measured a few times, several ways, to make sure I'm not crazy but it wouldn't hurt if someone else could take the measurement.

Then when I compared the template to some MNC 13's that I already have mounted, it seemed that the boot center was off a little as well, my measurements show that they should be moved forward (towards the tip of the ski) by 2mm. This would make the distance from the center line to the top holes on the back plate to be 115mm. The bottom holes on the front plate would be 116mm from the center line. The total hole distance from bottom of the toe okate to the top of the heel plate is still 231mm, like you guys measured.

I'm using a pair of QST 106s with Warden MNC 13's as a reference but it would be best verified on a jig.

Here's a link to the album of my measurements, sorry the lighting sucks.
https://imgur.com/a/fAxYUJ1