If only there was something we could do...

exactly

laughing my ass off

Attachment 417724
Attachment 417725

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Originally Posted by LongShortLong

I'd blame that more on the elected officials, and by proxy SF residents. Awhile back one of their mayors responding to a raft of cellphone thefts on MUNI said if you don't want your phone stolen, don't have it in your hand. (I interpreted this as "don't visit SF")

There seems to be a notion that if a theft is only for a small amount, there isn't much harm done to society. My take is if someone's stealing cellphones every day, that's >100k in direct losses per year. Add in missed appointments, hassle to replace, and psychological damage... Lock the thieves away and lose the keys - it's way cheaper and makes a better society.

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A police force that doesn't even call people back when they were victims of an armed robbery is a failed force. Seriously. I can't imagine the contortions you have to go through to get to "no way is that the police's fault".
If they did their best and prosecutor declined - sure. This is not even trying, not to mention the racist stuff they said to my wife when she noted it was a black guy and a white guy.
"Are you sure? They don't usually work together." It was 2012.

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Originally Posted by seano732

JFC I can’t understand your rant…. Serious question: Have you ever seen a human being who has been shot IRL?

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Yes I have. And my point is simple: complaining about gun violence is unlikely to persuade the public and therefore law makers to change the law in the direction of stricter gun control unless it includes more enforcement, more law enforcement. We the public might decide that's a bad tradeoff but if you read between the lines that's what people, the public, really thinks:

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Still, I'm not going to give mine up unless we all give all of them up together.

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Originally Posted by k2skier112

the system is fuct and you're arguing semantics

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semantics requires Bobby to know what he’s talking about. He’s a wumao shitting in the thread who thinks he bought knowledge with his blued buttplugs

DB -

Thank you for joining the conversation -

last Wednesday, I wrote, emergency services ( including law enforcement ) are trained not to put themselves in harm's way.

another insisted, training is to rush an active shooter --

your family members in police services and ( prison) is noted
( I cannot relate to nyc. I had plenty to cope with with young friend in minneapolis in 2020 ( nightly violence after GeorgeFloyd was killed. ))

regarding Uvalde.
19 children were murdered. That's the loss --

That you think it is about the police and are laughing speaks volumes about You.

I realize a lot of guys are just here for an entertaining diversion ;
for some of us, this "community" means more than that.


it's pretty-clear I can read, even if I abuse a bunch of rules about writing in my posts -
That you start your post with an attempted insult... ( see my comment above about it reflecting on You. )

Uvalde is about 21 murders, DB -

but you can laugh and support the police.
Nice, DB --


skiJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

Australia’s pop is 3x NYC

Non sequitur, nevertheless

By that logic…for every AUS-sized partition in the US we can remove 650k guns?
US pop / AUS pop = 350M / 25M = 14 AUS inside of the US.
So, concurrently in 14 partitions of the US over 4mos, we could remove 9.1M firearms (14 * 650k). —> So, 27.3M per yr [3 * 9.1M].

If we truly have 400M firearms currently, it would take 14yrs to clear that stock at the rate of AUS.

Not impossible, & god knows we could bring more resources to bear in the effort since US GDP is 20x that of AUS

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After a few tequila drinks and a gummy the first thing that jumped into my head reading bobbies post was economies of scale. Thanks for doing the math. And yes, if we really wanted this done it would be quicker. Maybe posting the pictures would do it...idk. I wouldn't look because I don't need to be convinced.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

I read that the Australian government removed 650,000 guns during their round up.

That's .165% of the guns in the United States.

I think they said it took 4 months. That means it would take 205 years if scaled to the US.

Im not sure the Australian model is a viable method to point to.

No to mention, Australia's population is about the same as NYC.

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Your assumptions make for bad math.

This is what it’s like arguing with the anti gun control crowd - including posters in here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...g_double_down/

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Originally Posted by schuss

"Are you sure? They don't usually work together." It was 2012.

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To be fair, the black guy was Robert Downey Jr

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

To be fair, they're not paid well enough to deal with maniacs with AR15s in body armor much better than theirs.. Those .223 rounds go right through standard police vests. That doesn't excuse them murdering unarmed young black men though...

Cops are the ones who should be screaming loudest to stop selling these weapons designed for mayhem to the general public..

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Okay, I’m not on the gun folks side but you’ve said this more than once. The police are not outgunned or wearing lesser armor than the bad guys. The standard rifle for most police is the AR 15 or even the M4 in some cases. They use level III, or better, armor for SWAT and are allowed to use most any armor. So stop this. It’s not a talking point


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skiJ

DB -

Thank you for joining the conversation -

last Wednesday, I wrote, emergency services ( including law enforcement ) are trained not to put themselves in harm's way.

another insisted, training is to rush an active shooter --

your family members in police services and ( prison) is noted
( I cannot relate to nyc. I had plenty to cope with with young friend in minneapolis in 2020 ( nightly violence after GeorgeFloyd was killed. ))

regarding Alvarde.
19 children were murdered. That's the loss --

That you think it is about the police and are laughing speaks volumes about You.

I realize a lot of guys are just here for an entertaining diversion ;
for some of us, this "community" means more than that.


it's pretty-clear I can read, even if I abuse a bunch of rules about writing in my posts -
That you start your post with an attempted insult... ( see my comment above about it reflecting on You. )

Alvarde is about 21 murders, DB -

but you can laugh and support the police.
Nice, DB --


skiJ

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their training is to rush an active shooter. that's why there is such an uproar. the cops suck - their culture is their safety first and protocol in a school shooting is rush the shooter

we all know what those cops did

cops even call it being on the job... the ulvade cops failed. it's not acceptable. policing needs to change in this country

i dont support the police. since returning to the people republic of vermont I have asked several officers of the law for their business cards and had the pleasure of discussing my interactions with said officer with their boss.

I pay my taxes and vote

Probably been posted here but saw a tweet today that pointed out the NRA is happy with us blaming the cops and taking the heat off of easy access to the assault rifle.

Nobody should have to rush a suicidal 18 yo with an assault rifle.

But yeah. If our so called law enforcement officers are too cowed to rush this kind of firepower, why are these so weapons easy to obtain.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

the kids were talking to the cops on their cells, the police told them to yell out, when they did the kids where shot

the ineptitude of the cops and the miss information they gave is stunning

This incident makes it so clear how dysfunctional we have become as a society on so many levels.

The guns, the repressive nature of cop culture, the industrialization of law enforcement, the repressed underclass.

Where do we focus our outrage?

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

big pharma according to the gun scholars in here

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Okay, I’m not on the gun folks side but you’ve said this more than once. The police are not outgunned or wearing lesser armor than the bad guys. The standard rifle for most police is the AR 15 or even the M4 in some cases. They use level III, or better, armor for SWAT and are allowed to use most any armor. So stop this. It’s not a talking point


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Just going by stuff I've read.. Just said their vests aren't full body armor plated. They'd be way hotter and heavier. Now, SWAT may have full plated, but doubt that little town has them.

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Matt P.
, Gun owner, engaged in state/national gun policies and politics, instructor/FFL03
Answered Mar 15, 2018 · Upvoted by
Andy Duffell
, ex-forces armourer
Standard police body armor is NIJ Type IIa or IIIa soft armor. Both are rated to stop standard and magnum pistol rounds. Centerfire rifle rounds like .223 will go through either type of armor like it wasn’t there.

Only Type III or IV hard armor is rated to stop .223/5.56mm rounds from any rifle including the AR-15.

So no, standard police body armor will not stop a bullet from an AR-15. It isn’t designed to.
https://www.quora.com/Would-a-standa...an-AR-15-rifle

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Anybody got links saying regular cops do wear full plated armor? I don't think they do..

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Originally Posted by schuss

Seriously. I can't imagine the contortions you have to go through to get to "no way is that the police's fault".

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You're projecting. I agree that criminals should be locked up. And all the steps leading to that should be performed (except the crime)

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Just going by stuff I've read.. Just said their vests aren't full body armor plated. They'd be way hotter and heavier. Now, SWAT may have full plated, but doubt that little town has them.

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In Texas, USA????

Attachment 417740

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Originally Posted by jackattack

In Texas, USA????

Attachment 417740

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I saw that already. Still doesn't mean the vests they have stop .223s out of AR15s. Looked like they weren't too sure about that either..

Anybody here ever see a vest, any vest stop a high velocity .223 round out of an AR15 at close range? I'm skeptical that's even possible..

Start around 4:30. 3% ... only 3%

Why the fuck are you guys arguing about the thickness of bulletproof vests?
The problem is guns. Millions and millions of easy access guns designed to kill people. And they are well engineered to accomplish this.
Everybody is a good guy with a gun, until they aren't.
I want 2a gun nuts to see a billboard of slaughtered kids everyday on the way to work. Sickening? You bet. That's the fucking point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by schuss

So what is the price? They get paid more than armed forces folks and frequently bilk the public with "overtime" their last few years to get better pensions than everyone else.

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Yeah, uh.. thats not actually a thing bro. Overtime does not count towards police pension calculations.

Canada is banning handguns and adding limits to rifles. Mandatory surrender for cash. (if they have the votes)

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/30/11020...-sales-imports

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

Canada is banning handguns and adding limits to rifles. Mandatory surrender for cash. (if they have the votes)

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/30/11020...-sales-imports

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Together with the NDP I don't see why they can't push this thru, don't forget its the British parliamentary system eh

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Originally Posted by DBdude

stop over 40 pages ago I wrote that the leading cause of death of children is buy gun fire

there is no challenging this fact. either people shouldn't have guns or they don't know how to have them

the end result is the same - strict gun laws

you just don't want to hear it because you hide behind the second amendment

for once in your fucking life say that the death of our children are a price your are willing to pay for your fear for your property and an over reach of government

just say it - it's ok that the main cause of death of children is guns

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This x400million.

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Originally Posted by k2skier112

the system is fuct and you're arguing semantics

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I was just wondering how he knew 5.56 would punch through a "standard police vest" without knowing the rating level. I thought they wore plate carriers.

What's fuct is you thinking some sort of answer or resolution is going to come from TGR. Not going to happen.

If you would like your money back, I can see if we can get you a refund?

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Anybody got links saying regular cops do wear full plated armor? I don't think they do..

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What's full plated armor?

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Originally Posted by dunfree

semantics requires Bobby to know what he’s talking about. He’s a wumao shitting in the thread who thinks he bought knowledge with his blued buttplugs

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https://i.imgflip.com/3c8a1x.jpg

This idea that the Police are out gunned is a cop out. Early 80s you could buy machine guns and cut people in half. It happened quite a bit in South Florida. Banned in 1986.

25 years ago, during the AWB, two guys took on a whole Police force in North Hollywood. They did this with homemade body armor and illegal assault rifles. Ever since then, cops have had armor and rifles.

None of this is new.

It's fairly obvious that the local Police force was not very concerned with the students of that school. That was the poor school and it had mostly brown kids in it.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

Canada is banning handguns and adding limits to rifles. Mandatory surrender for cash. (if they have the votes)

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/30/11020...-sales-imports

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Then why are we trying to ban rifles?

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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

Yeah, uh.. thats not actually a thing bro. Overtime does not count towards police pension calculations.

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Depends on the state and town. I know for plenty of towns here, it's average of the last 3 years of service, so they work the system to do lots of traffic gigs.
As far as I've seen they're pretty well compensated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mas...outputType=amp
https://patch.com/connecticut/stamfo...city-employees

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Originally Posted by powdrhound

Your assumptions make for bad math.

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They got rid of less than a 1/4 of a percent of the guns we have. That could be a rounding error for our situation.

US gun manufacturers made 7 million guns in 2019 alone. That was actually a lower amount than previous years.

Im not sure exact math matters much because the two situations are extraordinarily different.

Has anyone else been hearing that the sicko was actually taken out by a parent not on duty not part of the police response? It’s ringing true to me. A dad who happens to work for border patrol. Went into the school. Got his kids to safety. Then went back in. And took the broken human out.

If true that’s fuckin wild

Anyone else hearing the same?

Also curious if the demon was on or had been on antidepressants. Every other one was

Other than that. I don’t understand how we have people amongst us who could do something like this. I just don’t understand.

I have my solution. These are strange days

http://nbatitlechase.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/PHOTO-Of-Heroic-Border-Patrol-Agent-Who-Shot-Salvdor-Ramos-And-Saved-Lives.jpg[/IMG](I'd bet 5 dollars he's former military)

[QUOTE=dunfree ;6622248]Retired veterans with combat experience to patrol schools? This is fucking idiotic. What makes you think they

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Originally Posted by basinbeater

Why the fuck are you guys arguing about the thickness of bulletproof vests?
.

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It matters whether or not police are confident that their standard vests will protect them from those kinds of threats. I've never fired an AR but I have shot an AK clone at junked cars, older 60s and 70s cars. It's amazing how much metal they go through. Seems to me that stuff that police aren't able to protect themselves from should definitely not be so readily available to the general public. What I've xeen confirmed is that the cop vests do well against most handgun threats, 9mm, 40 cal etc.. Havent seen anything confirming they do well against those armor piercing high velocity rounds.

This stuff
https://www.firequest.com/ARM-100

I'll shut up when someone confirms vests work against those.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

I'd bet 5 dollars he's former military.
This one aged well.

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It's pretty obvious these two things give you wood. You should probably get that checked out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by huckbucket

It's pretty obvious these two things give you wood. You should probably get that checked out.

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Just proving a point. Turns out a SRO and two cops did not engage the shooter. Turns out police didn't do... anything really.

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Zachary Evans
Sat, May 28, 2022,
The Border Patrol agents who killed the school shooter in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday entered the school on their own accord after local law enforcement requested that they hold back, two senior federal law enforcement sources told NBC News on Friday.
The agents from BORTAC, Border Patrol’s tactical unit, arrived at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde from a location about 40 miles away, according to the New York Times. Agents from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) arrived around the same time, the federal sources told NBC.
Local law enforcement asked the two teams to wait, and then tasked HSI agents with pulling schoolchildren out of classroom windows. BORTAC agents waited about 30 minutes and then decided to ignore local law enforcement’s request to remain outside, entering the school and neutralizing the gunman.

One of the BORTAC agents sustained a graze wound to the head before killing the shooter.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

It matters whether or not police are confident that their standard vests will protect them from those kinds of threats. I've never fired an AR but I have shot an AK clone at junked cars, older 60s and 70s cars. It's amazing how much metal they go through. Seems to me that stuff that police aren't able to protect themselves from should definitely not be so readily available to the general public. What I've xeen confirmed is that the cop vests do well against most handgun threats, 9mm, 40 cal etc.. Havent seen anything confirming they do well against those armor piercing high velocity rounds.

This stuff
https://www.firequest.com/ARM-100

I'll shut up when someone confirms vests work against those.

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Take a look at the plate carrier the guy is wearing in the picture. He almost had his head blown off because he wasn't wearing a helmet. The other agent who had to borrow a gun from a civilian, had zero armor.

Im not sure why you are trying to offer this up as an excuse for the local Police.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by schuss

Depends on the state and town. I know for plenty of towns here, it's average of the last 3 years of service, so they work the system to do lots of traffic gigs.
As far as I've seen they're pretty well compensated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mas...outputType=amp
https://patch.com/connecticut/stamfo...city-employees

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yes, this is true for NY

No amount of policing will stop this as long as access to guns is as easy as it is.
The type of armor they have is irrelevant. Maybe thicker armor makes it so there are 10 dead instead of 20 dead. That's still not solving the problem. Everybody knows guns are the problem, and that is why people immediately move to tighten gun control, and on the other side of the coin exactly why gun nuts immediately begin howling about 2a and demanding more guns to counter the guns that are out there. One argument makes sense, the other does not and actually makes things worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by basinbeater

No amount of policing will stop this as long as access to guns is as easy as it is.
The type of armor they have is irrelevant. Maybe thicker armor makes it so there are 10 dead instead of 20 dead. That's still not solving the problem. Everybody knows guns are the problem, and that is why people immediately move to tighten gun control, and on the other side of the coin exactly why gun nuts immediately begin howling about 2a and demanding more guns to counter the guns that are out there. One argument makes sense, the other does not and actually makes things worse.

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Yup, and yet again all the people with their doors locked/mental health/good guy with a gun nonsense need to fuck right off with that bullshit. No capacity for shame with those people, unfortunately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Turns out a SRO and two cops did not engage the shooter. Turns out police didn't do... anything really.

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This has been covered so many times in this thread. Why do people keep getting it wrong? Numerous eyewitnesses say police engaged the shooter initially. Two minutes after Ramos entered the school, three police officers followed him through the same door and were quickly joined by four more. Authorities said Ramos exchanged fire from the classroom with the officers in the hallway and two of them suffered "grazing wounds." The shooter fired over a 100 rounds during this time.

The first police on the scene were outgunned by Ramos' powerful, high-end rifle, according to a man who watched from a nearby home.


And from the last time this came up: "These BORTAC guys however are not just regular Border Patrol agents. They're highly trained, highly capable. They are headquartered and trained at Fort Bliss U.S. Army base in El Paso, Texas. One of their main missions is to respond to terrorist threats. They conduct narcotics operations overseas. They supported the military mission in Afghanistan. Stateside, they routinely breach buildings during drugs raids, etc. "