OFFICIAL TAHOE 18/19 STOKE, CONDITIONS, WEATHER THREAD

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Originally Posted by TahoeBC

I've learned not to get to excited over an incoming storm, seems more often than not it's breaking up on the crest or raining except at the highest elevations. That said it only takes one storm to really turn things around, lets hope xmas week we fair better.

Woke up a few times last night to check the radar, seems the Rose area did as well as anywhere else.

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Just checked it out. With the wind it was impossible to get a good feel on what we got. Throwing 4 inches out there. Rode ok with some light crust here and there.

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Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee

Just checked it out. With the wind it was impossible to get a good feel on what we got. Throwing 4 inches out there. Rode ok with some light crust here and there.

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Wind has definitely been moving snow around, backed out of more than one line that's been killed by it. Yesterday at Kirkwood I'd say 4 to 6" that skied not quite bottomless but pretty dam fun, impressed with the coverage out there. After a morning session at the wood, we did a tour and went back out today, fun snow on the right aspects with deep pockets out there with some variable turns in the mix as well.

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Originally Posted by meter-man

Do any Tahoe mountains (esp Squaw) have resources like Mammoth's patrol site? Their site identifies all Mammoth slidepaths, start angle, average angle, length, aspect, and elevation. Pretty amazing: http://patrol.mammothmountain.com/At...tlasIndex.html

Come to think of it - I've never seen a public resource like this for any mountain anywhere.

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Yes, but not publicly available.

I’m hoping to do something like this at BV.

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Originally Posted by Robojerry

Yes, but not publicly available.

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This^^

I remember when the head of snow safety at Kirkwood was developing his site over 10 years ago.

Kirkwood skied well today.

I'm shocked Mammoth makes that publicly available.

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Originally Posted by TahoeBC

Wind has definitely been moving snow around

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Yeah big time. Went to check out Red Lake today but didn't stay long.
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Then went to Waterhouse, which was a few inches of light and fluffy on top of crusty. Felt kinda silly passing up all the new snow west of the crest to get there!
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yes some do. they are very helpful

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Originally Posted by gnarbro365

I'm shocked Mammoth makes that publicly available.

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Just curious on why information like this would be kept out of the public view if available. Besides the useful information on slope angles, etc, Seems it would give the public an appreciation of all the work required to get avalanche terrain open at a resort.

Went to the pass yesterday but.....Attachment 260704
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Those patrol sites with actual data could conflict with marketing bullshit so they usually aren’t meant for public consumption. Kwood has one but......yeah


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Originally Posted by TahoeBC

Just curious on why information like this would be kept out of the public view if available.

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To me, it seems like a liability issue.

1.) it gives you a general idea of how many pounds of explosives are kept on site. Not real hard to find explosive mags if you look around. Cal-OSHA is strict on placement and storage, but still not great to let the public know you need to keep a couple thousand pounds of explosives on hill.

2.) let’s say patrol skips a shot placement. Few hours later a guest gets hosed in an avalanche in that slide path. Their lawyer stumbles on this publicly available site. To a lay person, one shot point should equal one shot, right? Why no shot placed right where my client got hosed?

All patrols with avalanche terrain have something very similar to this. They all keep very close records of shots used, where they were placed, and what the results were. I have never seen that made publicly available...only internal.

I’m sure, any litigation involving inbounds slides probably involves a subpoena on those records, but why give lawyers more ammo? What’s the benefit to joe-schmo to know where you place hand charges? Who cares about in bounds slope angle if you’re the general public?

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Originally Posted by gnarbro365

To me, it seems like a liability issue.

1.) it gives you a general idea of how many pounds of explosives are kept on site. Not real hard to find explosive mags if you look around. Cal-OSHA is strict on placement and storage, but still not great to let the public know you need to keep a couple thousand pounds of explosives on hill.

2.) let’s say patrol skips a shot placement. Few hours later a guest gets hosed in an avalanche in that slide path. Their lawyer stumbles on this publicly available site. To a lay person, one shot point should equal one shot, right? Why no shot placed right where my client got hosed?

All patrols with avalanche terrain have something very similar to this. They all keep very close records of shots used, where they were placed, and what the results were. I have never seen that made publicly available...only internal.

I’m sure, any litigation involving inbounds slides probably involves a subpoena on those records, but why give lawyers more ammo? What’s the benefit to joe-schmo to know where you place hand charges? Who cares about in bounds slope angle if you’re the general public?

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slope angle is nice to know, to let people know that that "50 degree" run they just skied is only 35 degrees.
As far as how many shots were used, I think the law and recent court decisions have pretty much insulated the ski areas from liability for post control releases, and as you say, the existence of such records is no secret.

One "shot" doesn't necessarily mean one bomb. I remember one March after a huge dump counting 32 separate bomb holes on Akja Cache and Summer Road Pockets ( the little face looker's left of Tower 16). (Of course it's possible that those bombs were for fun. When my son was on patrol one day he did several laps in a snow cat bombing the Broken Arrow area on each run before skiing fresh pow down, even though they had thrown all the bombs they needed to on the first run. They kept at it until all the bombs--and untracked pow--were gone.)

I guess what I’m getting at is there doesn’t seem like any real good reason to make that public, but lots of reasons to keep it private. Change my view.

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Originally Posted by gnarbro365

I guess what I’m getting at is there doesn’t seem like any real good reason to make that public, but lots of reasons to keep it private. Change my view.

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That the Maggots demand it should be a good enough reason for anybody.

Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. Really just the slope angles I find interesting.


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Originally Posted by old goat

slope angle is nice to know, to let people know that that "50 degree" run they just skied is only 35 degrees.

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You can get slope angle from CalTopo. I use it pretty regularly in planning BC tours.
http://caltopo.blogspot.com/2013/01/...revisited.html

The skiing at Alpine has been GREAT from this last refresh.

The skiing last weekend in Nevada...not so much.
More on that here:

https://www.nvbackcountry.com/single...n-the-Toiyabes

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Originally Posted by old goat

slope angle is nice to know, to let people know that that "50 degree" run they just skied is only 35 degrees.

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EXCUSE ME SIR, are you trying to tell me that the blacks at N* are not actually steep?

Heads up!

3 reports of windslab avalanches from today on SAC. Hard, nasty-looking slides. No injuries thankfully.

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Originally Posted by Wobby

The skiing at Alpine has been GREAT from this last refresh.

The skiing last weekend in Nevada...not so much.
More on that here:

https://www.nvbackcountry.com/single...n-the-Toiyabes

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"Sagebrush tip knockers" snow? That sounds like type-2 to me!

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I know this isn't the Shasta thread but...a whole lot less badly wind effected snow here.

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Originally Posted by gnarbro365

I guess what I’m getting at is there doesn’t seem like any real good reason to make that public, but lots of reasons to keep it private. Change my view.

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I'm with you. I see zero benefit to the resort in making the investment to publish control route atlases public.

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Originally Posted by old goat

One "shot" doesn't necessarily mean one bomb. I remember one March after a huge dump counting 32 separate bomb holes on Akja Cache and Summer Road Pockets ( the little face looker's left of Tower 16). (Of course it's possible that those bombs were for fun. When my son was on patrol one day he did several laps in a snow cat bombing the Broken Arrow area on each run before skiing fresh pow down, even though they had thrown all the bombs they needed to on the first run. They kept at it until all the bombs--and untracked pow--were gone.)

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This has not been my experience. Perhaps your son was new at the time and the leader thought he could benefit from the additional experience. That route also takes a shitton of bombs, maybe they were doing multiple laps to cover everything and he got great turns at the end of each lap and that's what he chose to emphasize? Explosives are a cost of doing business, a workplace hazard, and when you're throwing them you are not making turns, so taking multiple laps to throw shots takes away from skiing opportunities. Shots are thrown to control avalanches and sometimes to train new people, but they are never thrown for "fun".

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Originally Posted by lepistoir

Heads up!

3 reports of windslab avalanches from today on SAC. Hard, nasty-looking slides. No injuries thankfully.

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at least one (Frog Lake Ridge) was from sunday when the advisory was LOW for all elevations (until the storm came in). I've skied there Monday and today since (on more conservative aspects, that one is notorious) and it would have been good to see that info sooner.

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Originally Posted by gimpy

Those patrol sites with actual data could conflict with marketing bullshit so they usually aren’t meant for public consumption. Kwood has one but......yeah


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I love Kirkwood's and it doesn't really conflict with anything marketingwise as far as I can tell. It's more about windspeed/direction and snowmaking conditions; one of which is very useful.