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Talked to someone who successfully did the swap using the atomic touring boot replacement pivots. They said it worked fine but quoted me $150 for the swap with hardware at 75 and labor at 75. For that price they said i should do it myself or buy a new pair of boots. If anyone wants more beta Andrew at Tahoe sports hub was helpful to talk with. Maybe I’ll try the diy replacement as a summer projectQuote:
Originally Posted by Wapow
It's not a binding ramp angle thing, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by concierge
I put some spoilers between the liner and the shell. They're good for maybe 1 degree?
... Thom
No I don't think so, I am skiing the Ski Trab Vario.2 and the Ski Trab Gara Titan, which are on the average side of binding delta. I do skis a 25.5 which amplifies things but I don't have an issue when I ski them on my F1 LT. I also have put a small shim on the bootboard of the Tour Pro to increase the ramp.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Had a few seasons in both (inbounds and out). Not sure I'd call the Scout "skiing better", but it definitely is softer. Before I destroyed the rear lip with marker bindings I was up skiing my Scouts with the Pulse Labs Proflex. This was when it was my 1 boot quiver. It was easier to flex into but I think a lot of that was just it was softer than the Pro. I did feel like I could over power the boot (even with the proflex) inbounds like I can't with my current 120 Salomon dedicated inbounds boots.Quote:
Originally Posted by concierge
I feel you on the thought of getting a slightly softer boot for bc since you're not hitting the same speeds or airs as you would inbounds. But I'm still undecided as I still like the pro and can get it to flex for me, and it's perfect for traveling. If I could find something that flexed and fit like my inbounds Salomons and had the ZGTP weight I'd be all over it.
Something I've found that makes just about every touring boot ski, or at least feel, better is an elastic power strap. Like my F1 LT's have an elastic Scarpa strap that came off an old TX Pro. It's been on a number of boots and always helped. Partly probably because a have a tiny af lower leg.
Also forgot to mention that I now run my ZGTP with Intuition Pro tours and it made a big difference in "skiability" over the stock.
I ski Mach 1 and ZGTP. Allegedly both 13 degree. ZGTP is much more uptight. Went to a 10mm delta binding (atk). Feel balanced again on touring setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by concierge
Leelau who outweighs you by 10 lbs or so says he can’t tell the difference between scout and pro - he says both ascent and descent feel the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by concierge
I’m a bit bigger than both of you and I loved the ZGTP. My resort boot is a lupo/krypton which is also fairly upright.
My ZGTP were stolen from my garage. Can’t find any in my size except used sets on eBay from sellers with no reviews. There is a cheap pair of scouts up. Been eyeing those.
Anyone else with some data on this that can weigh in?
I usually prefer the feel of PU over grilamid
I have no data comparing both, just hearsay. My fitter told me that the Scout was more linear and the Pro more progressive. I think eluder has had time on both if you want to bug him, as he sold me my Scouts and said they were his backup pair for when his Pros were out of commission.
I will support the “linear” description of the Scout, like I can take a hit and feel the flex, and then if I take another one it moves forward again. I wouldn’t try to drive a super stiff ski with it, as it just seems to me that they might feel mismatched … it certainly felt mismatched on my flat tail Enforcer 98s when I was boot testing them on multiple skis inbounds. The Scout actually breathed some new life into my 12 year old Praxis BCs that I assume were a Flex 2 when built, mostly because the flex patterns of the ski and boot seemed synergistic. The Scout has also worked well for my Gen 1 Rustler 11s which are reasonably stiff and stable underfoot but obviously pretty flexy at the tips and tails. I’ve got to believe that the Pro does feel at least a little stiffer than the Scout.
I've been skiing the Scout (all green) which I think was the first year. I bought it over the Pro because of the PU cuff. Previous boot was a Scarpa F1. I've modded it a bit by adding a heel lift, booster strap, small heel lift on the boot board, a thicker spoiler behind the liner, and a small pad off an old cochise on the tongue (skinny legs and adds a nicer feel going forward/spreads out the pressure). I'm quite happy with the end results. I'm skiing a Volkl Blaze 94 (new to me this year). My old skis were Volkl Mantra VWerks. Like the Blazes much more. Mantras were a bit stiff for me. 6', 175lbs. Mantras tended to need a fair amount of speed and skier input to begin to cooperate. As mentioned, you don't ski as fast in off piste conditions. I think I'd like the Scouts to be a bit firmer going forward, but I'm not sure that they'd be much different if they were. I probably should upgrade to a better liner. However, I really like the set up with the boots & Blazes that I have now. I only use these for touring. G3 Zed 12 bindings. I feel more balanced this year with the boot mods and the new skis. Just finished a great week touring in Italy. The gear worked great every condition. Mostly good to great snow and no impossible snow.
Should qualify this is a 150+ day ZGTP vs a fairly new Scout. I'd imagine the older ZGTP is fairly worn in after so much use so perhaps that lends itself to feeling softerQuote:
Originally Posted by SupreChicken
Thanks everyone. Choucas, can you tell me more about your heal lift setup? Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Choucas
Anyone here not seen my ad in gear swap and want a pair of 29.5 ZGTP’s with about 10 (some partial) days on them?
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Got a link or you want us to do all the work of finding your precious wittle ad? :fmicon:Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
Lol
[emoji23]
FS: Technica Zero G Tour Pro 29.5
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=352369
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I'm looking for a 27.5 of the Zero G Pro if anyone in the Tahoe area has an idea. I need to offload my 26.5s that don't fit so hot.
I have a pair of 27.5 Zero G Pros I am going to sell. They are yellow, whatever the model year was before the current orange plastic. Limited use as part of a 3 boot quiver. Shoot me a message and I can send you photos/info, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by AZskibum
Dibs?????????? What color/year?Quote:
Originally Posted by AZskibum
Can we get some three way action ??
I've long felt like the zero g pro tour could be the perfect touring boot for me if it had just a bit more ROM and forward lean. I am still working on the ROM, but am curious what you all think about what me and a buddy have been working on to increase the forward lean. This is just a proof of concept to be CNC'ed later, but we 3D printed the piece that the walk mode attaches to (plastic white piece in pics) and made it higher up, giving the boot more forward lean. I think it probably comes out to about 16 degrees now. Taking any suggestions on how to measure.
The hardware in the photo is just what I could find at the store today and will be replaced later. What do you guys think? If I made 25 in CNC'ed aluminum would people buy the piece with necessary hardware for $100? See pics. I am not sure why they are all rotated. Sorry about that.
Attachment 464536Attachment 464537Attachment 464538
I would likely buy a pair or two for some Frankie boot projects.
Depends on your project? 26.5 with oval'd ankle pivotsQuote:
Originally Posted by turnfarmer
Awesome, I am definitely going to do a production run for around 20 pairs. I will shoot you a DM when they are available.Quote:
Originally Posted by turnfarmer
This refers back to a question about what kind of heel lift I went with in my Scouts from back in April: I tried a bunch of heel lift thicknesses. Went with the skinniest one. I also put a bontex shim under the liner to take up some volume. I think I had 3 thicknesses to work with and went with the medium one. Trying to get a more connected, closer to the shell feeling. Bindings are mounted on the line. I don't do forward mounts. 179 Blaze 94.
Are you liking the heel lift solution? I've always felt with heel lifts if I get an actual noticeable impact on the forward lean, it pushes my foot forward touring and hurts my toes. Also I feel like I don't get good shin to cuff contact with a heel lift. That is why I am going through the hassle of making the mod to increase the forward lean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Choucas
Had a pair of 28.5 scouts and decided to go down to the 27.5 pro this season. Wear a 27.5 mach 1 without any punching but definitely going to heat mold and/or punch the pros. Took them out for an early season tour recently and was feeling pretty crushed by the shell width-wise on the climb. How have people's experiences with molding the CAS shells been?
So I hate the wire buckles and want to replace them, has anyone done this and found ones that have holes that line up well? Ideally looking for a buckle like the Hawx XTD touring clip style.
The Grilamid CAS shells do not heat mold (in a K-Tech oven), you need to hit them with a heat gun and a lever punch to create more width (the PU CAS shells don't either). Creating more width in a Tecnica boot, whether Mach 1 or Zero G, calls for a skilled bootfitter. The divots at the fifth met (and elsewhere) are a convenient and usually very accurate guide to where to punch, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeWright
If you came out of the MV mach 1, ya, you should punch the shells on the zero g. If you came out of the LV, there's probably some weird shenanigans going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeWright
Skied both the mach 1 LV and Zero G for the past 2 seasons. Needed to punch both boots on the 6th toe. Grilamid doesn't always play as nice as other plastics. Punch it, maybe punch it twice and throw it in the freezer for a day before you pull the punch device out.
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There is no reason to have to do weird things punching a Zero G. The Grilamid (as with most grilamid boots) punches very easily and rebounds less than a PU boot. The tricky thing with grilamid is that you don’t get it too hot and make the punch look disgusting. Don’t heat it up too hot, but at least warm on the inside, and punch it. If you’re using a lever punch, blend out the edges of the punch as it follow the die very aggressively and can leave hard edges, especially if you have a linkage driven punch that really follows through at the end of the motion. As Greg said, it takes a skilled bootfitter, but not one more skilled than someone who can punch any other boot and has punched at least one grilamid boot before.
Ps. I heat gunned the sides of my boot while they were on my feet and it very much heat molded the shells.
I'm with GoldenBC, Grilamid punches just fine, and while the solid-melt curve is a little different than a high quality Polyether boot, most of the risk is due to the fact that the Grilamid shells are 30% as thick as a 130 flex PU boot. You do need to get it to the right temperature without overheating, but you don't need to punch multiple times or leave it on the punch overnight, etc. Once you cool a boot to room temperature, getting it colder doesn't do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMarkus
I punch Grilamid boots on a daily basis, FWIW, and find a Scarpa Maestrale RS or Dynafit Speed Radical (or indeed, a Zero G Tour Pro) a pleasure to work on.
As for whether or not you need to widen the forefoot, let your foot decide, but yeah if you're coming from a Mach 1 MV you'll probably want to.
What is the proper temp for grilamid to be punched if i might ask?
I also hated them, and broke them all. All the little springs that give them tension when open broke. I think I replaced 7 of them over time (all free from Tecnica). So last year I ordered some of the buckles from the plain Zero G Tour (the blue one). It has normal buckles. But to my surprise the buckle catches did not have touring extensions/catches on them. So I found a pair of beat up ancient Atomic Hawx for like $30 and took the catches from them This reduces the fiddle factor significantly. It actually improves the touring range of motion too, because those touring catches extend quite a bit farther than the original ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
I was also sick of the instep buckles just falling off because of the previously mentioned springs breaking so I grabbed some buckle cathces from old Dynafit Ones (ore TLT 6, Vlucans, Mercuries...) and put them them on the instep. Works great with the original wire buckle.
I have always found toe buckles to be pointless, particularly on a touring boot. I never tighten them, so I removed them years ago, filled the holes with silicone and never had an issue.
Yes, I am a huuuuge nerd.
Also, I've developed a huge amount of slop in the cuff rivets. I had them pressed twice which temporarily helped. Tecnica sent me a new set of the rivets, just had them installed for $60, good as new. So it seems there was no rounding out of the plastic, it was just the rivets that were shot. But I have't used them yet.
I've got 4 shell punches on each boot so not very interested in replacing these until I find something that skis nearly as well and tours better (very hopeful that the replacement that should be coming out next year will have improved touring range of motion).
Attachment 476090
Guess my experience has been with less skilled bootfitters then. Grilamid was a bit after my time fitting boots, so haven't really had much hands on experience. Maybe a few scarpas if they used it 6-7 years ago? The orange Maestrales come to mind. Otherwise, I had to take mine into the shop twice. So maybe they just didn't take their time with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
Attachment 476097
Plastics have continued to evolve and are more punch-friendly now than before. Very thick polyether shells (i.e. plug race boots) have always been a bitch to punch, even now I usually grind a bit before punching and they tend to have more "memory" than current PU shells, especially heat moldable models. Yes, a new Maestrale punches way easier than an OG one (there were some Pebax ones that were stubborn, current Pebax R-New is fine). Aside from race boots, older Full Tilts and the Black Diamond Pebax (or any older Pebax) boots stand out as being a pain in the ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMarkus
FWIW, plenty of great bootfitters who earned their chops doing race boots and stiff recreational boots don't have a lot of touring boot experience and are wary of light Grilamid shells. Also, Grilamid is not one plastic, there are dozens of formulas and even more if you count the carbon infused ones.
The temperature at which the plastic is very warm to the touch all the way through, but before you melt the top surface. I've thrown away the IR thermometer at the shop and teach everyone to use their finger inside the shell, if you can only touch it for .5 second you are about at the right temp. Typically you have to alternate between heating and letting the heat soak in to not melt the surface. Hold the gun as close to the shell as you can (1/4 - 1/2") so as not to heat the surrounding plastic (it will distort where you don't want it to, esp. with open throat touring models) but don't leave it in one spot for long.Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
*As for using infrared thermometers as a boot punching tool, I am not a fan. You can heat a boot and measure five spots within a few centimeters of where you aimed the gun and get five drastically different answers. Also, and probably more important, you are measuring the surface temperature of the plastic, not the interior temperature which is most important in terms of plastic elasticity.
Thx!
I'll try this before I punch. Did you wear a toe cap or pad areas where you especially needed room?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
Yeah, MV. Looks like a trip to the shop is in order.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMarkus
Depends on how much room you need or how soft the body part that needs room is. My foot is very flexible width wise and I needed it punched for the big meat pad behind the 6th toe, so I did pad it. If your foot is more solid and you’re wanting room around bone spurs, I would try it first without pads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beder
Toe caps for toe width for sure. Or just a pad on the side of your toe. If you need length for toes, you’ll most likely need to punch. I’ve never really found that heat molding does much for length since toes just get squished backwards and the toe box is too strong of a shape.