"All weather" tires in place of winter tires

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Originally Posted by Duffman

I'm sure this is a dead horse topic here, but any personal experience comparisons here between the All Weather passenger car tires for an AWD sedan (Audi A4 in this case) like the Nokian WR G4 vs Performance Winters like the Vredstein Wintrac Pro or the Michelin Pilot Alpin 4? [...]

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Sort of...

Background = live in Western Mass, but not at any elevation, on a plowed paved street (unlike friends who live on dirt roads in the nearby "Hilltowns"), and despite chasing backcountry powder, winter driving is a mix of thin snow, slush, wet, and dry (with deep unplowed snow very rare).

When I owned a string of Subaru Legacy sedans, I first used a mix of various Blizzak models (LM-25, WS60, LM-25 RFT), then I switched to three sets in a row of the WRG3. Never noticed any difference in winter performance upon switching to the WRG3. And dry road performance was obviously a huge difference, felt like any typical all-season tire.

For my 2019 VW Arteon, the OEM tire sidewalls made me a bit nervous for pothole blowouts (245/40R19), so I got a separate winter setup, Vredestein Wintrac Pro (245/45R18). Winter performance was fine as always, and noticeable better than the OEM tires during a couple early-season winter driving experiences that caught me by surprise before the winter setup was swapped, whoops! Dry road performance wasn't quite as smooth as an all-season or all-weather tire, but excellent by the standards of a winter tire. And wet performance in all the tests is so much better than any "Nordic"-style studless winter tire.

For my 2022 Audi A6 Allroad, the OEM tires have enough sidewall (245/45R20), so last week I replaced the OEM tires with the Michelin CrossClimate2. (Had been looking previously at the Vredestein Quatrac Pro, but the CC2 comes out on top in the tests by Consumer Reports and Tire Rack, which are the only U.S. objective tests I've seen. The WRG4 seems to have been a step back from WRG3 predecessor.) Looks like I'll be able to report back on Thursday as to winter performance, powder day at Hike-O Pico!

I'm sure drivers who live in deep snow climates (like my brother in Tahoe) or in consistently cold climates have good reasons for buying dedicated winter tires. But all-weather tires are so perfect for people in our situations. As a poster over at GapicSki recently commented, "Just like with skis, but tires for the conditions you expect to encounter, not the conditions you hope to encounter." (Especially true given how poorly Nordic/studless winter tires perform in the wet.)

Just to add - I've gone through at least 4 sets of WRGs, 2x WRG3 and 2x WRG4, and there isn't a noticeable difference for me. Very good, do recommend.

Awesome insight, thanks! I got away with the OEM low profile size last 2 seasons, but needing something new I def want to go to a 225 or 245 50r17 vs my current 245/40r18.

If anyone is shopping now for all weather tires, Walmart may be worth a look. I just ordered a set of Nokian WR G4 for $150 per tire (245/60/18 size, YMMV). Walmart tire installation cost is reasonable too.

Same tire at Discount Tire was showing up at $200/ ea.

Update: those Nokian WRG4 are fantastic. Couple drives in shitty winter conditions: packed down snow/ ice, deep slush, deep puddles at freeway speeds, and general hooning through the snowy neighborhood = superb.

Honda I-VTM4 / SH-AWD is great.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Update: those Nokian WRG4 are fantastic. Couple drives in shitty winter conditions: packed down snow/ ice, deep slush, deep puddles at freeway speeds, and general hooning through the snowy neighborhood = superb.

Honda I-VTM4 / SH-AWD is great.

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I'd be interested in an update next winter after you have had them for a year. I liked my all weather tires in the winter a lot more on their first winter than their second after the shoulders on the lugs have rounded out a little.

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Looking forward to hearing how the CrossClimates work since I just ordered a set.

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

I'd be interested in an update next winter after you have had them for a year. I liked my all weather tires in the winter a lot more on their first winter than their second after the shoulders on the lugs have rounded out a little.

Sent from my SM-A536W using Tapatalk

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I've gone up to 3 winters on a set of WRG3s, the 3rd winter was notably worse, but 1 and 2 are really good, IMO.

Also, since I drive a lot in the summer, I tend to get ~40k out of these tires, but you can warranty them with the manufacturer below ~60k I believe. The warranty is scaled based on use, but usually it turns into one free tire. 3 summers and 2 winters for the cost of 3 tires isn't so bad.

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Originally Posted by dmcd

Looking forward to hearing how the CrossClimates work since I just ordered a set.

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Have at it:

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Tire/Mi...sClimate-2.htm

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Originally Posted by dmcd

Looking forward to hearing how the CrossClimates work since I just ordered a set.

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I live in Santa Fe NM and spend a certain amount of time in the winter driving on either packed snow or dry pavement, but also going up into the mountains for skiing regularly, in and after storms. The CCs are perfect for that. And I just drove on dry highways and freeways through the desert to northern CA and they were wonderful on that.

If I drove regularly in wet, deep snow like the Cascades I’d probably think about something like X-Ice.

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

I'd be interested in an update next winter after you have had them for a year. I liked my all weather tires in the winter a lot more on their first winter than their second after the shoulders on the lugs have rounded out a little.

Sent from my SM-A536W using Tapatalk

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I'm using them as a winter set, essentially -second set of wheels. Will use them in winter until tread is too shallow, then they will be the non-winter 3-season set.

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

I live in Santa Fe NM and spend a certain amount of time in the winter driving on either packed snow or dry pavement, but also going up into the mountains for skiing regularly, in and after storms. The CCs are perfect for that. And I just drove on dry highways and freeways through the desert to northern CA and they were wonderful on that.

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That's great to hear because that's essentially my exact use and what I was hoping based on the tire reviews I found online. How long have you had them and how are they holding up?

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Originally Posted by BCMtnHound

The half ton just got Nokias Outpost AT this spring, and will run them this winter until I don’t like them and then put on the studded Hakks. Will report out on both the Rotiivas and Outposts. One thing for sure, they both hold 1/2” pebbles from the forestry road for the tailgaters on the highway.

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Any feedback on the Outpost AT? A weird fender bender has me buying a new set of tires and I'm between them and the General Grabber A/Tx which I've been running on my F150 the last 50k.

Snow performance matters as I just run 1 set of tires on this truck.

Before everyone piles on. The fender bender had nothing to do with my all terrain tires lol.

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Originally Posted by snowaddict91

Any feedback on the Outpost AT? A weird fender bender has me buying a new set of tires and I'm between them and the General Grabber A/Tx which I've been running on my F150 the last 50k.

Snow performance matters as I just run 1 set of tires on this truck.

Before everyone piles on. The fender bender had nothing to do with my all terrain tires lol.

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Are Falken AT3W an option in your size? They're outstanding on my truck.

As for Nokian, I've never heard one single, solitary, bad thing about them.

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Originally Posted by dmcd

That's great to hear because that's essentially my exact use and what I was hoping based on the tire reviews I found online. How long have you had them and how are they holding up?

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That part’s hard for me to say. I had them on a Tiguan for a little less than 15k miles and they held up great. I have a different car now with about 5k miles on them. Not really an opportunity to judge longevity. I don’t drive too hard.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

did some buddy just say they could out brake anti-lock brakes ?

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Completely depends upon the situation. In deep snow, sometimes piling snow in front of tires is a good thing. For the most part, being able to still steer while braking is better than being locked and turning into a sled. Certainly, some ABS systems are better than others, too.

Same with traction control. I have personally proven that traction control can, in some cases, be better than my throttle foot. I tried fully rally mode in my old Range Rover to get up the driveway. I hardly made it past the first turn on my driveway. Snow mode got it to the top turn before it had to be drug the rest of the way up. Impressive. Conversely, my wife's X5 flat couldn't get to my driveway (Nov slush) with her driving and DSC engaged. I shut it off and rallied half way up the drive before dragging it with the tractor. I just had to keep the tires spinning and cleared.

That brings us back to snow tires: the X5 was on Pirelli Scorpion AS. Absolutely treacherous in snow. I drug it up to the house and put it on Blizzak's. No more issues.

There are AS tires that are better than others (Vredestein Quatrac comes to mind), but none are as good as a dedicated snow tire.

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Originally Posted by snowaddict91

Any feedback on the Outpost AT? A weird fender bender has me buying a new set of tires and I'm between them and the General Grabber A/Tx which I've been running on my F150 the last 50k.

Snow performance matters as I just run 1 set of tires on this truck.

Before everyone piles on. The fender bender had nothing to do with my all terrain tires lol.

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I don’t have a ton of kms on them yet, but so far they haven’t scared me driving dry snow winter conditions. Seem to handle the highway ice alright, and went up a plowed forestry road for a Yule tree in auto 4wd without serious slippage (I was trying a bit on the corners). Nowhere near as sticky on the pack ice on the side streets start & stopping with no weight as the set of studded haks I am keeping in reserve though. FWIW, these on the 1/2ton are better performing than the Nokian Rotiiva AT+ on the taco that has the sled in the bed.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

Completely depends upon the situation. In deep snow, sometimes piling snow in front of tires is a good thing. For the most part, being able to still steer while braking is better than being locked and turning into a sled. Certainly, some ABS systems are better than others, too.

Same with traction control. I have personally proven that traction control can, in some cases, be better than my throttle foot. I tried fully rally mode in my old Range Rover to get up the driveway. I hardly made it past the first turn on my driveway. Snow mode got it to the top turn before it had to be drug the rest of the way up. Impressive. Conversely, my wife's X5 flat couldn't get to my driveway (Nov slush) with her driving and DSC engaged. I shut it off and rallied half way up the drive before dragging it with the tractor. I just had to keep the tires spinning and cleared.

That brings us back to snow tires: the X5 was on Pirelli Scorpion AS. Absolutely treacherous in snow. I drug it up to the house and put it on Blizzak's. No more issues.

There are AS tires that are better than others (Vredestein Quatrac comes to mind), but none are as good as a dedicated snow tire.

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there is always one, I had tongue firmly in cheek looking up at ceiing when i typed that

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Originally Posted by BCMtnHound

I don’t have a ton of kms on them yet, but so far they haven’t scared me driving dry snow winter conditions. Seem to handle the highway ice alright, and went up a plowed forestry road for a Yule tree in auto 4wd without serious slippage (I was trying a bit on the corners). Nowhere near as sticky on the pack ice on the side streets start & stopping with no weight as the set of studded haks I am keeping in reserve though. FWIW, these on the 1/2ton are better performing than the Nokian Rotiiva AT+ on the taco that has the sled in the bed.

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Thanks. Seems like these may be the winner for me.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

That brings us back to snow tires: the X5 was on Pirelli Scorpion AS. Absolutely treacherous in snow.

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My better half just purchased an Audi that came with Pirelli Scorpion "Verde" tires. It's headed to the shop this week for some Nokians after driving it home from the dealer in the snow.

I’ve been quite happy with the Cross Climates, happy enough that I just bought a second set for the CRV. I’m coming off Nokian Hakka 8s with studs. Definitely not as good but only really noticeable on ice.

If you are near Tahoe / N California and want a set of wheels and Nokian Hakka 8s send me a PM. Tires are at 4 or 6 on wear. I believe the wheels are off a Odyssey but fit a CRV. 16”. Attachment 437379


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Originally Posted by Bronco

My better half just purchased an Audi that came with Pirelli Scorpion "Verde" tires. It's headed to the shop this week for some Nokians after driving it home from the dealer in the snow.

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Heh. Yep:

Attachment 437386

Attachment 437387

Attachment 437388

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Article...-Tire-Test.htm

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

As for Nokian, I've never heard one single, solitary, bad thing about them.

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They're friggin expensive and the LT3 is damn near impossible to source due to the Russian factory being off the board.

So that's two things.

I'm still planning to buy a set of LT3s next year, assuming fresh stock is available. My five-year-old, 60%ish LT2s have been doing pretty well since I put them on after my local shop failed to secure the set of second-choice tires I thought they were ordering for me before the distributor ran out of LT275/70-18.



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I pulled the trigger on the Outpost ATs. They were a hare cheaper than General Grabber A/Tx and significantly cheaper than Falken AT3w. I'm excited to see how they do.

Data point: I ran Hakka R2's and then R3's for years. Got tired of (a) seasonal swaps and (b) really only seeing an advantage for the last 15% of the drive (SF Bay>tahoe, or SF Bay>UT/WY/MT).

Took a flier and tried the Falken wildpeak A/T trail (not the 3W). They are basically light AT tires, quiet and good handling on dry, but with 3-peak rating. Running them year-round.

I'm sure there is a marginal difference but I can't feel it. They have been unstoppable in snow and zero issues on ice. And the benefits of being able to run them year-round and off-road in the summer are awesome. Highly endorsed.