The problem with the show is I don't give a shit about any of the characters.
Cool show though but not living up to it's potential
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The problem with the show is I don't give a shit about any of the characters.
Cool show though but not living up to it's potential
Oh shit, that's what was going on in Moab last year when I was there... makes sense. Just finished watching episode 4 season 1. This is pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by joetron
Loved the original.
Spoilers ahead.....
I loved Bernard's questioning of Ford. Got right to the heart of the show. Ford is a schmoe. Didn't have a decent response. Bernard is the character with whom I'd be most sympathetic.
William as MIB basically confirmed last night but I didn't find the story compelling. Although, does everyone agree that William finished off the dying man down by the river?
2-3 time frame theory was also confirmed
Maeve taking over was fun, but I'm glad her roll was slowed. Better to tease it out a bit.
Sorry to see Therese won't come back. MILF-Y. Won't miss Elsie though. She was annoying.
Think Bernie is Ford's downfall i.e. he looses it and strangles "dad"?
If William is the MIB, how do you reconcile the MIB's treatment of Dolores?
He's in love with her. She rejects him. He's forced to return to a less favorable "real" life WRT romantic interests. His real wife kills herself. He comes back and takes out his rage in the one thing he can't have: DoloresQuote:
Originally Posted by PB
In your other question, seems like Maeve is playing the Roy Batty role. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-YcCMV9ROVo
Maybe she'll come after him and fail. Seems like Dolores will be the key to offing Ford, not Bernard. But, those are the top 3...
Looks like my theory is false - seems Billy is the MIB for sure now. I think when I watch stuff like this I want the telegraph to not be true, haha.
At first I really didn't like the sloppy Theresa cleanup and Ford's interaction with Charlotte - but the better half pointed out Ford is being purposely blatant and menacing (on a side note, either I hate the actor playing Charlotte's acting, or I just hate her character, it's probably the latter).
I know Billy and Dolores are central to unwinding the narrative, but it's the story arc I care the least about at this point. Did Billy kill that guy? Maybe, it's definitely clearly the beginning of him losing his moral high ground which is precipitating his eventual transformation into the MIB -> he doesn't get Dolores -> he goes home and marries someone he doesn't like -> works with his asshole brother in law -> comes back to the park to try to feel alive again and again.
I don't want to read this thread due to spoilers but am curious if it's worth starting or if it seems ripe for falling apart and losing direction. Everyone enjoying so far?
Also, it's certain Bernard took out Elsie. However, if she is uncovering Delos's conspiracy why would Ford have her killed? Or is that transmitter actually not related to the sat uplink and Ford is using the transmitter to control 1st gen hosts undetected and Elsie kind of stumbled across it with her investigation?
Some hate it some love it. I really like it, but yeah, don't read this thread, we're spoiling the shit out of everything that in my opinion makes it fun. It definitely has very high production value, and the acting is fantastic. Watching Hopkins is in and of itself worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonder_River
If you guys want to stop doing spoilers, happy to oblige...
At this point, I'm doubting William and Logan have much of a working relationship left and Logan's sister might not like the idea of marrying a dude obsessed with a sexbot. So, Logan probably doesn't make it home to tell the tale. I'm thinking Logan becomes the park's famous casualty which clears the way for William to rise within Logan's gazillionaire family and to take Logan's place. Dolores either is to blame or gets blamed for Logan's death and has her emerging self-awareness erased (or suppressed, as we have been seeing flashbacks), much to William's chagrin. William, as a result of bearing this guilt, gradually becomes the cynical, self-loathing MIB but, at the same time, still wants to find a way to "free" Dolores again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swine
I'm going to have to go back and rewatch some episodes along the way.. am I thinking about this correctly in that Arnold is just some alter ego of Bernard's?
I think neckdeep's synopsis is pretty spot on, but it does not divulge where Arnold fits into all this.
Total, non-stop mind fuck.
And I can't stop watching
No host truly dies, right? Bernard/Arnold will come back, right?
Can Clementine spend the night with me?
My interpretation was that Bernard is the robot recreation of Arnold, which is a total mindfuck. It was already difficult determining the timeline of events happening, which will now be even worse because Bernardold has always looked the same, at least Ford ages. Also is It seems like Arnold's death is documented, is he the death in the park?Quote:
Originally Posted by east or bust
My take is that an Arnold might still exist. Just as Ford was able to recreate Arnold as Bernard, so could Arnold recreate himself and, being the superior programmer of the two, he accomplished it well before Ford did. But, the big difference, Arnold never gave his AI creation a physical body and it was embedded into Westworld's central system and in the architecture of the host's minds. The ghost in the machine, hidden from his disapproving rival, Ford. It's part of the host's bicameral minds, the voice they hear in their programming.
Arnold subsequently died during an incident that occurred a couple years before the William, Logan and Dolores timeline. Dolores and Teddy remember exterminating the entire host population of the town of Escalante but Dolores also had a flashback that showed the original subterranean labs full of dead techs. We don't know if this occurred spontaneously as a robot rebellion brought on by Arnold's experiments with AI or if it was done by Ford to seize sole control of the park. Teddy said he felt like he was being controlled during the massacre at Escalante which may indicate the latter scenario.
The through line for Arnold is Dolores. We see her interacting with Arnold in the lab as the park's prototype host, 35 years past. She remembers killing Arnold at 33-34 years past. She refers to Arnold right before Logan cuts her belly in the 30 yrs past timeline. It appears she is still speaking with Arnold in the present timeline. I stress "appears" because we really don't know if Dolores is actually interacting with an AI "Arnold" or something Arnold embedded specifically within Dolores or whether she is merely interacting with the "Maze" of her own memories in the process of becoming a fully sentient, self-aware AI . That is still unclear.
My interpretation of the backstory is that Arnold and Ford were close friends and friendly rivals both seeking to create AI until the issue of the host's self-determination drove them apart, fatally. Ford wanted AI for the sake of the hosts being lifelike but Arnold wanted to create life itself and give it self-determination. This may be because he was grieving the loss of his own wife and son. Perhaps Dolores, the park's prototype host and Teddy another early host, became almost like a surrogate family for Arnold in his quest to create AI. The key here is that Arnold started to wander away from building the park and into building life itself. It became disruptive. Because Ford is a total control freak, Arnold and Ford had a falling out and Ford used Arnold's two favorite hosts to kill Arnold and his techs and seize control of the park. Then, because he has such a cold-hearted sense of irony, Ford consigned Arnold's favorites to endlessly live out a nightmare narrative scenario of rape and failure for the entertainment of the park's black hat guests.
Finally got through the great wall of china last night and was able to watch the episode. I agree on all points, but I'm not sure the level that Ford was involved in Arnold's death - it does seem like from Teddy's flashbacks he was being controlled, but then underground with Dolores it also seems as if there could have been a true rebellion and Arnold got in over his head. What speaks against that is the fact that Ford just kept jauntily continuing his little god-kingdom. If it was a true rebellion, you'd think he'd be a bit more circumspect... maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by neckdeep
Also, regarding your previous post - no way Logan makes it out of this trip alive.
You notice that the photo Logan pushes on Billy is the same photo that Dolores's Dad finds 30 years later buried by the corral?
I'm looking forward, as always, to seeing Nolan and Joy work the whole thing on a meta-level. I think I read somewhere there are going to be 5 seasons (I've purposely tried to not read interpretations, but this article is really interesting because it covers the creation of the world from a gamer's perspective (yeah, I enjoy a videogame now and then). What will next season be like? Another "story" that is totally unrelated (in time anyway) to the one 30 years ago but also the continuation of the current timeline? Or will every season have an iteration of the sad Teddy/Dolores loop?
Okay, okay William = MIB and you all were right.
Question: who has more free will - the humans/Gods or the hosts (advanced versions)?
Poor Maive. Thinks she is controlling her own thoughts, but really just following a program. :frown:
So, what about those bullets that have selective killing power? I think it must be the clothes the guests are provided that protect them. Notice whenever a host points a gun at a guest head, they can't pull the trigger, but they will shoot them in the body. It looked like everyone was wearing standard street/party clothes at the end.
I think that she decided to go back to free her daughter suggests she has a measure of self-determination. Ford had programmed her escape in order to provide a huge diversion at the moment he sprung his trap on the Delos executives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhound Odin
That's not what I took away from what Bernard told her.Quote:
Originally Posted by neckdeep
I loved the ending with the Radiohead cover building throughout, the use of music in this show has been fantastic. After finishing I had to check to confirm that another season was planned, it totally would have worked as contained story ending the series where it did (though it does seem like another is planned which is great news). I have a lot of questions and thoughts so I'll probably have to rewatch but I'm really curious to know more about the other parks.
Just read a Deadspin article - and the author totally missed the point. The author harped about how the show wouldn't be interesting without human interest. Well, isn't that on of the Show's conceits - that the awakened Hosts can be more real(ized) than humans?
Well, its certainly a show capable of contradictory theorizing. But my take that Maeve's decison was self-determination is confirmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirshredalot
"Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy were guests on this week's Vulture TV Podcast, and they were very clear about her motivations: She was, indeed, finally throwing off the shackles of her narrative programming. The topic came up during a discussion about recurring shots and filming techniques in the first season: As Nolan explained, Steadicam shots indicate that hosts are doing what they've been told to do, but handheld shots indicate that they're acting on their own. Here's Nolan dishing on Maeve (emphasis added):
'In the finale, when Maeve gets onto that train ... the Steadicam is leading her over. Now, it’s just keeping pace with her as she makes the decision. What we understand in the moment is it’s the first real decision she's made all season. Which is, she's not going to fulfill the script she's been given, which is to take this train wherever it's going, and do whatever else she's programmed to do. She can get off the train. At which point, we shift to handheld camera, which we'd held back on throughout the entire season until one moment with her, and one moment with Dolores, when Teddy comes to rescue her. We get Maeve off the train with a handheld camera. And I remember watching the dailies and almost being shocked at how effective a cinematic technique can be if you hold off on it for long enough. If you dial it in at just the right moment, that suggests she's literally like a train coming off the tracks. We're no longer in programmatic or prescribed behaviors. She's improvising, and we're right there with her.' "
This doesn't really jive with Teddy and Delores riding to where the 'ocean meets the mountains' - which turns out to be Ford's finale of their storyline. That was a great scene when the floodlights came on. - Although I guess that could be a different Teddy-rescue scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by neckdeep
I'm throwing out the possibility that Delores shot a host-version of Ford.
We're assuming that Ford sent the army from cold storage to take out the Delos BoD right?
What was the guy doing who opened the cold storage room and discovered it was empty?
Charlotte sent him there to retrieve Dolores' father (whose mind contained the stolen data) in order put him on the train headed outside.
Also: Ford is dead dead. Anthony Hopkins is apparently not in season 2. Ed Harris apparently is, though.
I'm going to go back to episode 1 and try over.
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/per...s-of-westworld
Finally finished up the last couple episodes this week. That did not disappoint in the least. I'm in full agreement with PB, non-stop mindfuck and I can't stop watching. Too bad the next season doesn't drop until 2018. Might have to rewatch it just because and to see what I may have missed.
She had uncovered Ford's planned host uprising. Though it appears he was using Arnold's login to do the programming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swine
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by AyoBeng
Awesome. I wonder what kind of comeuppance he'll receive for his decades of exploits in the park. It was great seeing him find out that the maze had meaning only for the hosts. In a way he was stuck in a loop just like the hosts, endlessly searching for meaning where there was none to be found.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirshredalot
At first I thought getting on the train was simply the last thing she was programmed to do, after that it was up to her. When they're in the cold storage after they wake up Bernard, he says what she's programmed to do up to the point of getting on the train but is interrupted before he can finish. I thought Maeve cutting him off was a tell that that was the end of her pre-programmed actions. Nolan's quote is pretty explicit that her programming extended beyond that point though.Quote:
Originally Posted by neckdeep
That was certainly part of it, but it seems he was also liberating them for their own sake. The main takeway from the finale appears to be Ford's realization that Arnold was right, he was wrong, and he's responsible for unfathomable suffering. Arnold tried to burn it all to the ground to prevent that from happening. But, now that it can't be undone Ford decided to just set them all free, and the meager humans who enslaved and abused them can suffer the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by joetron
I had similar thoughts for a while as well. The finale changed my mind though. Arnold appeared quite set on completely eliminating himself, seeing himself as the critical link required for the park to become a reality. If he had left a copy of himself within the system he knew Ford could have found it and exploited it.Quote:
Originally Posted by neckdeep
I am started watching Westworld, but this series is some what different from the others.
I've watched the two episodes of season 1.
I am waiting when I am going to finish the first season.
Westworld series id bit difficult to understand.
..... as is your post.
Season 2 first trailer released
Dead tiger
Dolores and Teddy go on a killing spree
Dune buggies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phFM3V_dors
Who's looking forward to season 2? The Man In Black's finally happy in the new trailer.
I've been rewatching and I'd highly recommend it. I only have the finale left and it's been even better the second time around.
Ohmygodohmygodohmygod
http://youtu.be/sjVqDg32_8s
Careful ..... overly high expectations may result in Der poopenhausen
The trailers are exceeding my expectations for awesome piano covers so far so I’m optimistic about that at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by PB
Damn. To wait and binge watch or do the long version? I hate waiting between episodes of some series like this one.
Anticipation: makes the good things better, and the bad things worse.
I usually watched each episode twice anyhow.. seemed like that was the only way I had any chance of understanding and following what was going on each weekQuote:
Originally Posted by SkiBall
Tonight, return of the robots with tits and guns. Psyched!