Westworld

[AyoBeng]

The one against is when Delores shot the rapist in the barn and ran off to William. Just before she shot him, she had a memory of the man in black. Unless the show is just completely fucking with the viewer, this scene indicates William and MIB are in the park together, but certainly not 30 years apart.

Also their stories intersected with Teddy (Teddy straying from Delores, ending up with MIB and both of them being after Wyatt, who was acknowledged to either be a new host or in a new role with the recent upload of a history to Teddy). Definitely seems like those to stories are occurring concurrently.

[PNWbrit]

Very disappointing series.

Beautifully made.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Shut your whore mouth

[Swine]

The one for multiple times revolve around the robot Bernard being the replica of Arnold. Ford needed a dependable sidekick after he killed Arnold so he created Bernard. Those scenes between "Bernard" and Delores were flashbacks of Arnold and Delores.

This is really interesting the more I think about it. So in episode 3 when Bernard is talking to Dolores about a way to be free it could be Arnold - who it seems wanted to create full sentience. Ford is just some psychopathic storyteller and/or not on the same page with Arnold's original intent. I still don't think this lends itself to full on separate time-lines for the rest of the show - it's just hanging in space exactly when these conversations took place.

Maybe Arnold isn't real at all? At this point I think we can call into question anything "factual" that Ford told Bernard throughout the first 7 episodes. What if Arnold is Ford's alter-ego in code? Has anyone heard about Arnold besides coming from the glitches that have happened (Elsie for instance) or directly from Ford? (Also, like others, I think there's a good chance nearly all the workers are hosts, including Elsie).

[Mike Pow]

Very disappointing series.

Beautifully made.

+1

Over and out.

[AK47bp]

The problem with the show is I don't give a shit about any of the characters.

Cool show though but not living up to it's potential

[garyfromterrace]

I think the show will be rad. I'm most disturbed by the increased tourist load it will place on Moab. Fuck! Gonna be some pudgy, pasty nerds dying in the desert next year.
The Sheriff Bot went into melt down on the Kokopelli road - it is fun seeing so many familiar spots.

Oh shit, that's what was going on in Moab last year when I was there... makes sense. Just finished watching episode 4 season 1. This is pretty good.
Loved the original.

[54-46]

Spoilers ahead.....

I loved Bernard's questioning of Ford. Got right to the heart of the show. Ford is a schmoe. Didn't have a decent response. Bernard is the character with whom I'd be most sympathetic.

William as MIB basically confirmed last night but I didn't find the story compelling. Although, does everyone agree that William finished off the dying man down by the river?

2-3 time frame theory was also confirmed

Maeve taking over was fun, but I'm glad her roll was slowed. Better to tease it out a bit.

Sorry to see Therese won't come back. MILF-Y. Won't miss Elsie though. She was annoying.

[PB]

Think Bernie is Ford's downfall i.e. he looses it and strangles "dad"?

If William is the MIB, how do you reconcile the MIB's treatment of Dolores?

[54-46]

Think Bernie is Ford's downfall i.e. he looses it and strangles "dad"?

If William is the MIB, how do you reconcile the MIB's treatment of Dolores?

He's in love with her. She rejects him. He's forced to return to a less favorable "real" life WRT romantic interests. His real wife kills herself. He comes back and takes out his rage in the one thing he can't have: Dolores

In your other question, seems like Maeve is playing the Roy Batty role. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-YcCMV9ROVo

Maybe she'll come after him and fail. Seems like Dolores will be the key to offing Ford, not Bernard. But, those are the top 3...

[Swine]

Looks like my theory is false - seems Billy is the MIB for sure now. I think when I watch stuff like this I want the telegraph to not be true, haha.

At first I really didn't like the sloppy Theresa cleanup and Ford's interaction with Charlotte - but the better half pointed out Ford is being purposely blatant and menacing (on a side note, either I hate the actor playing Charlotte's acting, or I just hate her character, it's probably the latter).

I know Billy and Dolores are central to unwinding the narrative, but it's the story arc I care the least about at this point. Did Billy kill that guy? Maybe, it's definitely clearly the beginning of him losing his moral high ground which is precipitating his eventual transformation into the MIB -> he doesn't get Dolores -> he goes home and marries someone he doesn't like -> works with his asshole brother in law -> comes back to the park to try to feel alive again and again.

[Yonder_River]

I don't want to read this thread due to spoilers but am curious if it's worth starting or if it seems ripe for falling apart and losing direction. Everyone enjoying so far?

[Swine]

Also, it's certain Bernard took out Elsie. However, if she is uncovering Delos's conspiracy why would Ford have her killed? Or is that transmitter actually not related to the sat uplink and Ford is using the transmitter to control 1st gen hosts undetected and Elsie kind of stumbled across it with her investigation?

[Swine]

I don't want to read this thread due to spoilers but am curious if it's worth starting or if it seems ripe for falling apart and losing direction. Everyone enjoying so far?

Some hate it some love it. I really like it, but yeah, don't read this thread, we're spoiling the shit out of everything that in my opinion makes it fun. It definitely has very high production value, and the acting is fantastic. Watching Hopkins is in and of itself worth it.

[54-46]

If you guys want to stop doing spoilers, happy to oblige...

[neckdeep]

I know Billy and Dolores are central to unwinding the narrative, but it's the story arc I care the least about at this point. Did Billy kill that guy? Maybe, it's definitely clearly the beginning of him losing his moral high ground which is precipitating his eventual transformation into the MIB -> he doesn't get Dolores -> he goes home and marries someone he doesn't like -> works with his asshole brother in law -> comes back to the park to try to feel alive again and again.

At this point, I'm doubting William and Logan have much of a working relationship left and Logan's sister might not like the idea of marrying a dude obsessed with a sexbot. So, Logan probably doesn't make it home to tell the tale. I'm thinking Logan becomes the park's famous casualty which clears the way for William to rise within Logan's gazillionaire family and to take Logan's place. Dolores either is to blame or gets blamed for Logan's death and has her emerging self-awareness erased (or suppressed, as we have been seeing flashbacks), much to William's chagrin. William, as a result of bearing this guilt, gradually becomes the cynical, self-loathing MIB but, at the same time, still wants to find a way to "free" Dolores again.

[east or bust]

I'm going to have to go back and rewatch some episodes along the way.. am I thinking about this correctly in that Arnold is just some alter ego of Bernard's?

I think neckdeep's synopsis is pretty spot on, but it does not divulge where Arnold fits into all this.

[PB]

Total, non-stop mind fuck.
And I can't stop watching
No host truly dies, right? Bernard/Arnold will come back, right?
Can Clementine spend the night with me?

[AyoBeng]

I'm going to have to go back and rewatch some episodes along the way.. am I thinking about this correctly in that Arnold is just some alter ego of Bernard's?

I think neckdeep's synopsis is pretty spot on, but it does not divulge where Arnold fits into all this.

My interpretation was that Bernard is the robot recreation of Arnold, which is a total mindfuck. It was already difficult determining the timeline of events happening, which will now be even worse because Bernardold has always looked the same, at least Ford ages. Also is It seems like Arnold's death is documented, is he the death in the park?

[neckdeep]

My take is that an Arnold might still exist. Just as Ford was able to recreate Arnold as Bernard, so could Arnold recreate himself and, being the superior programmer of the two, he accomplished it well before Ford did. But, the big difference, Arnold never gave his AI creation a physical body and it was embedded into Westworld's central system and in the architecture of the host's minds. The ghost in the machine, hidden from his disapproving rival, Ford. It's part of the host's bicameral minds, the voice they hear in their programming.

Arnold subsequently died during an incident that occurred a couple years before the William, Logan and Dolores timeline. Dolores and Teddy remember exterminating the entire host population of the town of Escalante but Dolores also had a flashback that showed the original subterranean labs full of dead techs. We don't know if this occurred spontaneously as a robot rebellion brought on by Arnold's experiments with AI or if it was done by Ford to seize sole control of the park. Teddy said he felt like he was being controlled during the massacre at Escalante which may indicate the latter scenario.

The through line for Arnold is Dolores. We see her interacting with Arnold in the lab as the park's prototype host, 35 years past. She remembers killing Arnold at 33-34 years past. She refers to Arnold right before Logan cuts her belly in the 30 yrs past timeline. It appears she is still speaking with Arnold in the present timeline. I stress "appears" because we really don't know if Dolores is actually interacting with an AI "Arnold" or something Arnold embedded specifically within Dolores or whether she is merely interacting with the "Maze" of her own memories in the process of becoming a fully sentient, self-aware AI . That is still unclear.

My interpretation of the backstory is that Arnold and Ford were close friends and friendly rivals both seeking to create AI until the issue of the host's self-determination drove them apart, fatally. Ford wanted AI for the sake of the hosts being lifelike but Arnold wanted to create life itself and give it self-determination. This may be because he was grieving the loss of his own wife and son. Perhaps Dolores, the park's prototype host and Teddy another early host, became almost like a surrogate family for Arnold in his quest to create AI. The key here is that Arnold started to wander away from building the park and into building life itself. It became disruptive. Because Ford is a total control freak, Arnold and Ford had a falling out and Ford used Arnold's two favorite hosts to kill Arnold and his techs and seize control of the park. Then, because he has such a cold-hearted sense of irony, Ford consigned Arnold's favorites to endlessly live out a nightmare narrative scenario of rape and failure for the entertainment of the park's black hat guests.

[Swine]

My interpretation of the backstory is that Arnold and Ford were close friends and friendly rivals both seeking to create AI until the issue of the host's self-determination drove them apart, fatally. Ford wanted AI for the sake of the hosts being lifelike but Arnold wanted to create life itself and give it self-determination. This may be because he was grieving the loss of his own wife and son. Perhaps Dolores, the park's prototype host and Teddy another early host, became almost like a surrogate family for Arnold in his quest to create AI. The key here is that Arnold started to wander away from building the park and into building life itself. It became disruptive. Because Ford is a total control freak, Arnold and Ford had a falling out and Ford used Arnold's two favorite hosts to kill Arnold and his techs and seize control of the park. Then, because he has such a cold-hearted sense of irony, Ford consigned Arnold's favorites to endlessly live out a nightmare narrative scenario of rape and failure for the entertainment of the park's black hat guests.

Finally got through the great wall of china last night and was able to watch the episode. I agree on all points, but I'm not sure the level that Ford was involved in Arnold's death - it does seem like from Teddy's flashbacks he was being controlled, but then underground with Dolores it also seems as if there could have been a true rebellion and Arnold got in over his head. What speaks against that is the fact that Ford just kept jauntily continuing his little god-kingdom. If it was a true rebellion, you'd think he'd be a bit more circumspect... maybe.

Also, regarding your previous post - no way Logan makes it out of this trip alive.

You notice that the photo Logan pushes on Billy is the same photo that Dolores's Dad finds 30 years later buried by the corral?

I'm looking forward, as always, to seeing Nolan and Joy work the whole thing on a meta-level. I think I read somewhere there are going to be 5 seasons (I've purposely tried to not read interpretations, but this article is really interesting because it covers the creation of the world from a gamer's perspective (yeah, I enjoy a videogame now and then). What will next season be like? Another "story" that is totally unrelated (in time anyway) to the one 30 years ago but also the continuation of the current timeline? Or will every season have an iteration of the sad Teddy/Dolores loop?

[PB]

Okay, okay William = MIB and you all were right.

Question: who has more free will - the humans/Gods or the hosts (advanced versions)?

[Elkhound Odin]

Poor Maive. Thinks she is controlling her own thoughts, but really just following a program.

So, what about those bullets that have selective killing power? I think it must be the clothes the guests are provided that protect them. Notice whenever a host points a gun at a guest head, they can't pull the trigger, but they will shoot them in the body. It looked like everyone was wearing standard street/party clothes at the end.

[neckdeep]

Poor Maive. Thinks she is controlling her own thoughts, but really just following a program.

I think that she decided to go back to free her daughter suggests she has a measure of self-determination. Ford had programmed her escape in order to provide a huge diversion at the moment he sprung his trap on the Delos executives.

[Sirshredalot]

I think that she decided to go back to free her daughter suggests she has a measure of self-determination. Ford had programmed her escape in order to provide a huge diversion at the moment he sprung his trap on the Delos executives.

That's not what I took away from what Bernard told her.