Too Many Tourists In Colorado

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile

Perfect example of how "busy" is very, very relative.

Busiest NPs are
1) Great Smoky Mountains - 10 million visitors on 500K acres
2) Grand Canyon - 4.7 million visitors on 1.2 million acres
3) Rocky Mountain - 4 million visitors on 260K acres
4) Yosemite - 4million visitors on 750K acres
5) Yellowstone - 4 million visitors on 2.2 million acres

---

Not the same thing. A shit ton of those "visits" in the Smokies are just drive throughs between Gatlinburg and Cherokee. At Yellowstone, 4 million visitors come with expectations of stopping at specific thermal features. If all 10 million of the visitors to the Smokies were constantly trying to find a parking spot at the same five undersized lots, that haven't been expanded in decades, then you'd have a comparable situation. Yellowstone is more like Zion and Yosemite, where there's twice as many visitors as there is available parking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neckdeep

Not the same thing. A shit ton of those "visits" in the Smokies are just drive throughs between Gatlinburg and Cherokee. At Yellowstone, 4 million visitors come with expectations of stopping at specific thermal features. If all 10 million of the visitors to the Smokies were constantly trying to find a parking spot at the same five undersized lots, that haven't been expanded in decades, then you'd have a comparable situation.

---

But they are. That butter churning and soap making cabin in Gatlinburg is one hot ticket.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

But they are. That butter churning and soap making cabin in Gatlinburg is one hot ticket.

---

Attachment 188150

VS.

Attachment 188151


Which looks hotter?

Let loose a few Zika mosquito's. Tourist problem solved for the summer.

I went to Yellowstone in January. It was lovely, no crowds either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neckdeep

Attachment 188150

VS.

Attachment 188151


Which looks hotter?

---

I'm going to have to see her in action. Until then it's a tough call.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neckdeep

Not the same thing. A shit ton of those "visits" in the Smokies are just drive throughs between Gatlinburg and Cherokee. At Yellowstone, 4 million visitors come with expectations of stopping at specific thermal features. If all 10 million of the visitors to the Smokies were constantly trying to find a parking spot at the same five undersized lots, that haven't been expanded in decades, then you'd have a comparable situation. Yellowstone is more like Zion and Yosemite, where there's twice as many visitors as there is available parking.

---

Fair points...curious, do you agree with doebedoe's point that a quick walk yields the place "to yourself"?
I guess that's where I'm coming form. Yes, popular sites in NPs hold crowds, this is hardly groundbreaking material. At RMNP, good luck burning people without walking 4+ miles in. My experience at Black Canyon NP and Hawai'i Volcanos NP was the complete opposite, no issue getting away people very quickly.
I'm not very sympathetic to an argument that there are "too many tourists" at a 2.2 million acre park.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summit

Well maybe in another 30 years when CO is the only place below the 50th parallel that still has snow, Denver can alternate with Vancouver, Calgary and Lillehammer until they phase out the winter games. ;)

How crowded will it be in the high country when CO has the only ski resorts in the lower 48?
And in the summer when the Front Range, with an extra 5 million people, is looking to escape summer temperatures that breach 100degF 1-2 dozen times a summer instead of once or twice a year?

And how much will my property be worth then? I'll be old and move to Idaho or Montana or something.

---

some truth to this. I am moving from sea level to 8200'. bought a place so I can be local and bitch about the Texans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile

I'm not very sympathetic to an argument that there are "too many tourists" at a 2.2 million acre park.

---

Sounds like you have never been there. Good luck driving to the trailhead to get away from everyone when it's busy and one little bear crosses the road.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dromontana

A bit stark but ya, it's going that way. Park city should be without natural snowpack in another 10-20yrs iirc.

---

PC skiing won't be quite the same experience when the snow line is at 8,500'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muted

an overload of info online (to take out any unknown while planning a trip) is a major factor. People used to go to places with just a road map and some advice from friends. The ones that didn't like the unknown stayed at home, now they get online and figure shit out.

---

The Internet definitely shoulders a lot of the blame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muted

Sounds like you have never been there. Good luck driving to the trailhead to get away from everyone when it's busy and one little bear crosses the road.

---

Go at off times. Seriously, there was no problem moving around Yellowstone this summer when I was there before 10am on a Saturday. Yep -- after 10am it blows in a lot of spots.

Its just like skiing, people who bitch about overcrowding at a resort are the people who can't get off the beaten path a bit. You go to a popular place at a popular time you're just fucking yourself.

I'd hate to see more highways built or expanded in Yellowstone. Stopping people from coming will do nothing to help the environmental cause writ large.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shredhead

I'll take tourism over extraction, any day.

---

Not me, I much prefer the greasy Carhartt local, to the North Face Puffy local.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neckdeep

Attachment 188150

VS.

Attachment 188151


Which looks hotter?

---

Depends how long you've been in the woods...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summit

And how much will my property be worth then? I'll be old and move to Idaho or Montana or something.

---

So then you're just creating the problem you're leaving for other people? Sweet. Don't worry, we're seeing here too but just not as bad as CO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doebedoe

Go at off times. Seriously, there was no problem moving around Yellowstone this summer when I was there before 10am on a Saturday. Yep -- after 10am it blows in a lot of spots.

Its just like skiing, people who bitch about overcrowding at a resort are the people who can't get off the beaten path a bit. You go to a popular place at a popular time you're just fucking yourself.

I'd hate to see more highways built or expanded in Yellowstone. Stopping people from coming will do nothing to help the environmental cause writ large.

---

I know the off-time solution, everyone knows that solution here. Good to hear your perspective though, maybe it's not as bad as it sounds. I haven't been in the past few years (but I have thought it was too crowded for the past twenty years) and all I here is how it's significantly worse. I only went in the fall when I lived nearby.

Doing tour buses to all the stops, including time for bears crossing the road, could be a solution. Then charge more for people in cars or limiting car amounts, maybe. I don't want more parking spots or wider roads either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doebedoe

Its just like skiing, people who bitch about overcrowding at a resort are the people who can't get off the beaten path a bit. You go to a popular place at a popular time you're just fucking yourself.

---

That's adaptation, not a solution. Eventually you run out of "off the beaten path" and "unpopular times" and have to ration it someway. $ or lottery, same difference.

Not sure why people per acre matters for a national park. there's plenty of empty yosemite high country, and there's plenty of empty Sierra high country that's not in the national park, no problem escaping crowds there. But the Valley is kinda crowded and kinda a shit show often. It's also the thing that makes Yosemite Yosemite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shredhead

I'll take tourism over extraction, any day.

---

Extraction pays one hell of a lot better, offers more stable jobs, and has less crowds. Environmental regulations are pretty strong these days. I don't harbor such a dislike for extraction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dromontana

I didn't see crowds last weekend, unless you count waiting 30mins for someone else to finish a climb.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hern_Idaho.jpg

---

Maybe that's because you were in the midst of flat ass sagebrush and there's not much to climb?

If you want relentless positivism, say you don't give a shit about it and move the fuck on. There's plenty of cases for resources being loved to death, and you can be an adult and deal with it, or a child and say "it's wonderful". The demand for A grade most anything is increasing, the supply isn't. e.g rising prices and crowds. Substituting lower grades is fine, I do all the time for the experience I desire, but I don't pretend it's the same thing. Because it's not.

If you keep posting about it on the internet, the hordes will crowd you out eventually. You aren't that special, there are many like you, and any place that has a good day sometime will get crowded on a good day if you keep telling people it's awesome. That's a fact, whether your positivism likes it or not, and whether your I came from the east coast agrees with it or not.

Who has the fucking clout to clear my good name is god damn summit county. Who is going to stand up to the man and make them eat it

dd only thinks "me me me"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dunfree

If you keep posting about it on the internet, the hordes will crowd you out eventually. You aren't that special, there are many like you, and any place that's a good day sometime will get crowded on a good day if you keep telling people it's awesome. That's a fact, whether your positivism likes it or not, and whether your I came from the east coast agrees with it or not.

---

Like Loveland about 8 or 9 years ago

Ya, haven't you noticed its everyman for himself out here in America. Fkn bootlicker

I was at Arches two years ago--huge line to get in, Delicate arch lot full and road side parking nearly so, mobs of people on the hike and at the arch. Trail to the backside of the arch--didn't see a soul. Same at the Windows. Got hit in the head by a selfie stick. The "rough" trail around the back--I was the only one there. No doubt it's getting harder to get away from the crowds and will continue to get harder yet, but it's still not that hard. It is a problem as the knees and other body parts start to give out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by old goat

I was at Arches two years ago--huge line to get in, Delicate arch lot full and road side parking nearly so, mobs of people on the hike and at the arch. Trail to the backside of the arch--didn't see a soul. Same at the Windows. Got hit in the head by a selfie stick. The "rough" trail around the back--I was the only one there. No doubt it's getting harder to get away from the crowds and will continue to get harder yet, but it's still not that hard. It is a problem as the knees and other body parts start to give out.

---

Therein lies the rub... As more people come to CO, the locals are going to have to start being as good at getting after it as up until now they've only had to tell their friends back home they are.

Do you even live here bro?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile

Fair points...curious, do you agree with doebedoe's point that a quick walk yields the place "to yourself"?

---

Yes. But what's the point of that? Meaning, being someone who lives within sight of the parks, I can and do wander around in the woods to my heart's content without making a big $50 day trip hassle in the parks. Plenty of empty places, here. But, when I have visitors, they want to go see the Fountain Paint Pots, Grand Prismatic Spring, etc. That's kinda the point of paying the $50, to get a fucking parking spot at the damn thermals. Without the thermals, you might as well go hiking for free in the Wind River Range, the Tetons or the Absarokas. Those are way better mountains than anything inside Yellowstone. $50 is a total gouge for what you get, considering the same stuff (without the thermals) is available for free right next door.

one funny thing andrew has talked about this summer with all the chinese tourists in yellowstone is that they tend to congregate into big crowds around the most popular features.
like at Old Faithful he will walk his guests around to a nice quiet viewing area whereas the chinese see a crowd and immediately want to be in that spot too, no matter whether there is a clear viewing zone maybe 100' away lol

it has really gotten busy in GTNP too- in past yrs wd never really see parking overflowing at the parking lots but in the past couple summers there are always cars parked out on the side of the roads, full lots etc when we come back from our hikes etc (since yea we usually head out early to avoid this scenario)

although we did see the bears last w/e with only about 5 or 6 other vehicles around. But then again when I took my sister and cousin hiking last week we got stuck in a legitimate moose jam. cars were gridlocked/ not moving for several minutes.
Not sure the answer. in a way, glad that people are getting outdoors more/ enjoying nature although getting loved to death seems somewhat appropriate
I find millennials as annoying as everyone else but I can't see getting ornery and closing the door on others who were seeking the same things I was as a youngin'
ho hum

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doebedoe

Yellowstone is stupid busy at the popular photo-spots. But walk 500m off a paved trail and you have the place to yourself. It's wonderful. We saw 3 couples in 4 days of backpacking in the height of summer this year. Hard to see so few people at RMNP.

---

was just in a national park and didn't see any body for miles and hrs on a hike, ended up passing through certain spots and it was literally bus loads of people, all in one spot taking the same pickture

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summit

We have the CO-9 Breck/Frisco project which is in what... year 10 of 12 to add lanes to less than 8 miles of road?

---

enough can't be said about that, on top of this mess they still haven't funded or figured out the section of road from the hospital to the county commons light, what the fuck? So get ready for one more section to be completed in the next five years

goverment under funding and goverment beurocrates at their worst

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by digitaldeath

Who has the fucking clout to clear my good name is god damn summit county. Who is going to stand up to the man and make them eat it

---

Get on your knees and show us the cash, bitch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Get on your knees and show us the cash, bitch.

---

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...237a663115.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

As more people come to CO, the locals are going to have to start being as good at getting after it as up until now they've only had to tell their friends back home they are.

Do you even live here bro?

---

That's sig worthy shit right there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fastfred

enough can't be said about that, on top of this mess they still haven't funded or figured out the section of road from the hospital to the county commons light, what the fuck? So get ready for one more section to be completed in the next five years

goverment under funding and goverment beurocrates at their worst

---

At least folks in government can spell. If you hate the slow updating of infrastructure, blame TABOR and insanely low property taxes. The folks at CDOT aren't the problem -- their budget is.

I still think the worst 'locals' are the rad JH bros who move there for a year or two. The arrogance can get a little overpowering. Colorado peoples (locals, immigrant locals, Iowegian expats) are almost always awesome to us (except maybe rich assholes in the usual towns) but I almost never go anywhere there that is overrun because as a general rule I hate people as much as I love them. TGR seems like an outlet for everyone in Colorado to express the outrage at the happy melting pot they live in.

And interesting Yellowstone stats. We went last summer and the Chinese tourists have zero camping etiquette and they can really make it stressful but they probably aren't any worse than camping next to redneck off roaders in Colorado. We went with the dog and kids to Yellowstone and had a blast but I will never, ever, ever, return without a backpack. Good thing that the Winds are right down the road and basically empty of people that are annoying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doebedoe

At least folks in government can spell. If you hate the slow updating of infrastructure, blame TABOR and insanely low property taxes. The folks at CDOT aren't the problem -- their budget is.

---

And TABOR is the voter's fault.

I couldn't put my finger on exactly when we truly came to expect that we can get something for nothing, but whenever it was, this shit will be the death of us. Doesn't matter if we're talking about wanting low taxes and good infrastructure, or cheap goods and a strong manufacturing industry... The day people decide they're willing to invest their time, money, and effort in the things they want, all this bullshit goes away. Until then, enjoy the recession of the middle class.

You can get more than your fill of lye soap making and butter churning in Gatlinburg, Smokey Mountains National Park for next to nothing.

The middle class love it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doebedoe

At least folks in government can spell. If you hate the slow updating of infrastructure, blame TABOR and insanely low property taxes. The folks at CDOT aren't the problem -- their budget is.

---

I've told fastfred this numerous times before about TABOR and our taxes but it doesn't compute

I'll say it again then tabor is great!

best thing ever, don't know why every state doesn't use it, the problem is the gov't workers and pussy politicians don't know how it works

they go and ask for a 50 cent gas tax, they ask for bonds, they ask for increased income or property taxe rate increases, the voters get to vote on the increase and we either have new roads or shitty roads, but poltiicians don't want to look bad so they are to scared to ask for a tax increase, it's easier to look like champ and just raise taxes and get re elected instead of asking the people to vote on a tax look bad and maybe not get re elected

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neckdeep

Yes. But what's the point of that? Meaning, being someone who lives within sight of the parks, I can and do wander around in the woods to my heart's content without making a big $50 day trip hassle in the parks. Plenty of empty places, here. But, when I have visitors, they want to go see the Fountain Paint Pots, Grand Prismatic Spring, etc. That's kinda the point of paying the $50, to get a fucking parking spot at the damn thermals. Without the thermals, you might as well go hiking for free in the Wind River Range, the Tetons or the Absarokas. Those are way better mountains than anything inside Yellowstone. $50 is a total gouge for what you get, considering the same stuff (without the thermals) is available for free right next door.

---

More good points. I know the feeling, having to take many visitors on the Dream Lake hike in Rocky. Always full lots and a conga line in summer.

My point would be that we're talking about concentrated parks vs crowded parks. If the place is a ghost town outside of the A+ sites, well, I don't see that as busy. In many popular NPs or Wilderness areas, there are minimal options to have the place to yourself. YMMV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fastfred

I'll say it again then tabor is great!

best thing ever, don't know why every state doesn't use it, the problem is the gov't workers and pussy politicians don't know how it works

they go and ask for a 50 cent gas tax, they ask for bonds, they ask for increased income or property taxe rate increases, the voters get to vote on the increase and we either have new roads or shitty roads, but poltiicians don't want to look bad so they are to scared to ask for a tax increase, it's easier to look like champ and just raise taxes and get re elected instead of asking the people to vote on a tax look bad and maybe not get re elected

---

Yup, all the zillion people that moved to the front range have to do is vote for what Fred mentioned. Tards in a Dallas burb just voted to build a 70 million dollar high school stadium. Same could be done in your hood.


Being a Baca county tax payer, I'm plenty happy with Tabor and could give 2 shits how long you city fuckers spend in traffic. Just keep your ass north hwy50!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uglymoney

?.. I almost never go anywhere there that is overrun because as a general rule I hate people ...

---

Yeah, it's not that I hate tourists so much, I just hate people and a lot of them around here are tourists.

(Yeah, I know, I totally quoted out of context, but Ir serves the point I wanted to make. ;) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by capulin overdrive

Being a Baca county tax payer, I'm plenty happy with Tabor and could give 2 shits how long you city fuckers spend in traffic. Just keep your ass north hwy50!

---

What do you do in Baca?