The 300g Touring Binding Thread

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

I mean, the Alpinist is ~$225 on snowcountry. it’s hard to get something comparable for twice that price.

I have no complaints with the riser, flip it down to walk up the hill. Flip it up using the grip end of your pole at the top. The end.

id say it all comes down to weight. 200g skimo bindings on a plate, 300g mtn/alpinist, 350g ATK/et al.

edit to add- it looks like skimo is selling B&D shims for freeraider toes. Great to know! Those didn’t exist when I had freeraiders a few years ago! Nice call out beder.

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Atk Kuluar worth a look. 200g and a pretty full feature set. Superior to alpinist and about $280

Think the shim comes with the FR16.

For those getting used to flat ramp angle on alpinists: adding some spoilers to my boots to up the forward lean had them feeling much more comfortable to me on a tour yesterday

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Originally Posted by kamtron

For those getting used to flat ramp angle on alpinists: adding some spoilers to my boots to up the forward lean had them feeling much more comfortable to me on a tour yesterday

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Yeah or just buy a 17 degree hawx ;)

Maybe for my next boot!

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Atk Kuluar worth a look. 200g and a pretty full feature set. Superior to alpinist and about $280

Think the shim comes with the FR16.

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Just to make sure I have it right:

ATK Trofeo = fixed heel u spring skimo setup & 0mm delta stock (5.5mm delta with adjust plate and no toe shim)
ATK Haute Route = Lighter/lower dual-pivot heels and skimo toe & 6.5mm delta stock
ATK Kuluar/Candy = U spring with forward pressure on a heel track and skimo toe & 11.5mm delta stock
ATK Crest = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with skimo toe & 11mm delta stock
ATK Freeraider = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with higher/wider mount toe & 10-11.5mm delta stock
Moment Voyager = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with taller toe & 6mm delta stock

Is that right? Its kinda hard to keep all those straight.

I personally think the ATK Raider series is over priced and over rated, but something missing from this discussion is that ATK now makes their own 4mm toe shim designed for Raider toes that is much lighter and sleeker looking than the B&D option https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...2-pro-toe-shim

Don’t forget mag spyderjon makes a shim as well.

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Atk Kuluar worth a look. 200g and a pretty full feature set. Superior to alpinist and about $280

Think the shim comes with the FR16.

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The kuluar also caught my attention, but that 11.5mm delta is a bummer and I think you'd be in diy shim territory

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Originally Posted by funkendrenchman

What’s the deal with the free ride spacer on the MTN. What do I need to know or check for?

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nothing really, just follow the instructions. works great and i noticed an immediate difference with my heel no longer floating.

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Originally Posted by WhetherMan

The kuluar also caught my attention, but that 11.5mm delta is a bummer and I think you'd be in diy shim territory

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Measuring myself with toe in locked position both FR14 and Kuluar are 11mm delta.

With the Kuluar being 2mm closer to the ski heel and toe.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Just to make sure I have it right:

ATK Trofeo = fixed heel u spring skimo setup & 0mm delta stock (5.5mm delta with adjust plate and no toe shim)
ATK Haute Route = Lighter/lower dual-pivot heels and skimo toe & 6.5mm delta stock
ATK Kuluar/Candy = U spring with forward pressure on a heel track and skimo toe & 11.5mm delta stock
ATK Crest = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with skimo toe & 11mm delta stock
ATK Freeraider = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with higher/wider mount toe & 10-11.5mm delta stock
Moment Voyager = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with taller toe & 6mm delta stock

Is that right? Its kinda hard to keep all those straight.

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Type and number of heel risers also plays in.

Also ATK Evo with adjustable toe release value and auto brake lock on heel twist.

Don’t think the haute route is that low delta.

Also to note there are two different “skimo” toes. Monolink and two side spring.

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Measuring myself with toe in locked position both FR14 and Kuluar are 11mm delta.

With the Kuluar being 2mm closer to the ski heel and toe.

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Yeah, I added the atk 4mm shim to my raiders but I don't think they make one for the kuluar. And I'd prefer even less than that 7mm delta. Of course I could fabricate one, but I'd really rather not...

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Originally Posted by WhetherMan

Yeah, I added the atk 4mm shim to my raiders but I don't think they make one for the kuluar. And I'd prefer even less than that 7mm delta. Of course I could fabricate one, but I'd really rather not...

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Makes sense. I like the ramp as my ZGTP are pretty upright.

Fuck I can't find the manual. Does anyone know the Vario 2 heel gap adjustment? I'm pretty sure it's not 5mm. It's supposed to just touch the boot, right?

Sounds right. Try it and let us know if you die.

Anyone got any more details on the Marker's new "Cruise"? Is there a chance it belongs in this 300g thread? Any info would be handy

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

Anyone got any more details on the Marker's new "Cruise"? Is there a chance it belongs in this 300g thread? Any info would be handy

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Blister has a little bit about it in their summit recap, but no published weight i’ve been able to find. Based on pure speculation, the fact that it has full adjustable release, semi substantial brakes, and is supposed to fit between the kp and alpinist i would guess ~500 with brakes and 350-400 without. Hopefully someone at wildsnow gets their hands on a pair soon and we get more info


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Originally Posted by Cocximus

Fuck I can't find the manual. Does anyone know the Vario 2 heel gap adjustment? I'm pretty sure it's not 5mm. It's supposed to just touch the boot, right?

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.5-1mm

Just mounted a pair yesterday


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Originally Posted by BeHuWe

.5-1mm

Just mounted a pair yesterday


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Thanks

I love how the varios ski but is there a way to quickly turn them? I'm kinda jealous of the alpinist flat + lifter.

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Originally Posted by frorider

Alpinists are like the Tacoma of bindings, except they sell a billion of ‘em in Europe but not quite as many in the US. The design hasn’t changed other than a larger flange over the toe springs. Despite the huge numbers out there the failure reports are very rare. Both Blister and Outdoor Gear Lab concluded after testing on refrozen or chunky crap that they ski better and with a more damp, elastic feeling than all the others in this general weight category.

But the Tacoma’s seating position sucks for tall guys, and the Alpinist has a heel riser that reflects a Euro / skimo mentality. Our redesigned heel lever will provide two useful positions—a moderately tall position when pins are fwd, and a tall position when rotated. The actual mm heights are being fine tuned with our prototypes. And we are positioning the hole in the lever to enable easier insertion and rotation with any pole, particularly poles with a wide tip.

I’ll list the reasons I’ve concluded this is the best binding in this category in another thread w/ details on our proto results, but let’s not overlook the fact that they cost $200-$250 per pair depending on where you order them from in Europe. Sort of the cherry on top. If you and your SO are into bc skiing, and you have the minimum quiver (3 pairs each), that saves you $1500 vs the other good options.

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Love my Alpinists, and would love taller risers, so I'm very excited about this aftermarket project. Sign me up! Where is the other thread with the proto results? I can't find it.

Shoot, if you could do a double-riser (ATK-style) on the existing heel tower, that would make it perfect for me. I much prefer having the two-flapper risers, rather than having to rotate the heel turret to get a second riser height.

Anyway, I'm psyched about potential improvements you are working on, because I too have concluded that is an excellent excellent binding.

I'm a little surprised the zed gets passed by most people shopping in this category.

A hair heavier than the alpinist but it's not a u spring, it alrady has 2 risers that are easy to operate and no need to rotate the heel to get at the different risers, zero gap heel piece, nice ramp angle, and when they go on sale they're not crazy expensive.

There are lighter options for sure but as far a fully featured touring bindings in this weight category, they have a lot going for them.

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

I'm a little surprised the zed gets passed by most people shopping in this category.

A hair heavier than the alpinist but it's not a u spring, it alrady has 2 risers that are easy to operate and no need to rotate the heel to get at the different risers, zero gap heel piece, nice ramp angle, and when they go on sale they're not crazy expensive.

There are lighter options for sure but as far a fully featured touring bindings in this weight category, they have a lot going for them.

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Don’t they explode?

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Don’t they explode?

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I think the first year had issues with the toe baseplate (ironically, the metal one failed and the plastic one did not), but I'm not personally aware of any current issues.

Then again I don't tour much so I'm probably not the best long term product tester.

In terms of functionality I like them better that a lot of the other options out there, and I've even skied them 1 day in bounds and was very surprised how good they felt on rough snow.

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Don’t they explode?

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I'm still using the 1st year Zeds on my touring boards - all inserted for them. From my experience they are simply a solid clamp that works. Risers are super easy and you can hit both of them and flat without having to turn the heel for each. Can also rotate back to ski mode with a pole. I typically dial the speed way down in the backcountry so tend not to beat the shit out my stuff but I've never skied the toes locked and haven't had a pre release. The little fuckers just work and don't complain much about my 220+ lb ass squishing them with every step.

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

I'm a little surprised the zed gets passed by most people shopping in this category.

A hair heavier than the alpinist but it's not a u spring, it alrady has 2 risers that are easy to operate and no need to rotate the heel to get at the different risers, zero gap heel piece, nice ramp angle, and when they go on sale they're not crazy expensive.

There are lighter options for sure but as far a fully featured touring bindings in this weight category, they have a lot going for them.

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This +1. Have worked well for me.
If I’m being picky I wish it were a lil lighter but not sure you can get the same features in a (appreciably) lighter setup

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Originally Posted by TripleT

This +1. Have worked well for me.
If I’m being picky I wish it were a lil lighter but not sure you can get the same features in a (appreciably) lighter setup

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Yeah the weight hit is the only drawback I see and even that is only 50 to 100g in this category.

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Counterpoint: zeds are the ugliest touring binding on the market. It may be a silly reason, but virtually everything else looks better than them


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I would also suggest Plum Oazo (4, 6, or 8). 200gm per, bomber metal construction, 2 risers + flat mode

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

Yeah the weight hit is the only drawback I see and even that is only 50 to 100g in this category.

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The stack height is kind of high.

The heels were blowing up on the first run and they got a bad name. G3 is also pretty notorious for bad customer service. It does check some boxes though.

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Originally Posted by ezgzy

Counterpoint: zeds are the ugliest touring binding on the market. It may be a silly reason, but virtually everything else looks better than them


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You're right, that is a silly reason.

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Originally Posted by Eluder

The stack height is kind of high.

The heels were blowing up on the first run and they got a bad name. G3 is also pretty notorious for bad customer service. It does check some boxes though.

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Every touring binding sucks the first year... don't ever buy the first year.

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

Every touring binding sucks the first year... don't ever buy the first year.

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Quoted for emphasis.
Especially now with so many good choices out there.

The RAD1 had all those top caps peeling off cuz they were using wood screws into plastic with flippy lifters

G3 did not have the probelm cuz they sandwiched the plastic body bewteen top and cap with real machine screws

so right after that ^^ fiasco G3 builds a new binding what do they do ... use wood screws into plastic

What are people's thoughts on Trab toe and Haute Route heel for a wider pow setup (120+)? Is the heel mounting pattern too narrow and I should upsize to the Raider heel or is it all gravy? I'm only 5'8, 150 so thinking the HR heel should be enough.

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Originally Posted by Pins and Skins

What are people's thoughts on Trab toe and Haute Route heel for a wider pow setup (120+)? Is the heel mounting pattern too narrow and I should upsize to the Raider heel or is it all gravy? I'm only 5'8, 150 so thinking the HR heel should be enough.

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@cydwhit is running this and i think he likes it. If you don’t need the release above 10,i don’t see why not. I think the delta is very flat though


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Originally Posted by Pins and Skins

What are people's thoughts on Trab toe and Haute Route heel for a wider pow setup (120+)? Is the heel mounting pattern too narrow and I should upsize to the Raider heel or is it all gravy? I'm only 5'8, 150 so thinking the HR heel should be enough.

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You can also get slightly wider mount pattern heel plates from trab that will fit the HR

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Got it, thanks.

I went through Cy's posts, and the setup looks great. Only thing is I want to put in a spacer (homemade or ATK universal) but don't want another hole in the ski... I won't have this issue with Raiders or another heel I guess.

May go another direction with my powder setup but want to see if I'm able to sell my Trab toes first (Titan Vario 2, black/silver). Any interest for a pair of lightly used ones (skied 3 times)? Would $150 shipped be fair?

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Originally Posted by Pins and Skins

May go another direction with my powder setup but want to see if I'm able to sell my Trab toes first (Titan Vario 2, black/silver). Any interest for a pair of lightly used ones (skied 3 times)? Would $150 shipped be fair?

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Dibs pm sent