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You could go with the updated version of the General Altimax. New and improved All Weather compound! -https://generaltire.com/tires/passenger/altimaxtm365-awQuote:
Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn
For a little more dough and better winter handling the Vredestein Quatrac Pro + - https://www.vredestein.com/car-suv-t...TRAC-PRO+.all/
Toyo Celsius II and the Falken Aklimate are also budget friendly options relative to the Michelin/Bridgestone/Goodyear offerings in the all weather category.
The Generals do look intriguing.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Yokohama-...D&athbdg=L1300
Damn. I wonder if they'll be on sale come winter time
Have these on my Atlas, really good road manners. Seem fine enough in wet weather.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn
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No.
My wife and son have the crossclimate tires on their cars year round here in the upper midwest. They're happy with the summer and winter performance, and don't want a snow tire swap every year. Both have awd cars
Because I'm road tripping every winter, I'm swapping summer (crossclimate) and winter (x-ice snow) tires on an awd car. In my humble opinion, the dedicated winter tire is a huDge improvement over the all season in winter driving conditions
In places where you will be driving in winter conditions >20% of the time during winter (like the upper midwest), it makes total sense to go with a winter tire. But for many of us (Seattle, PDX, Denver, Bay Area/Sac) we are only driving in winter conditions a few times per year at home, and only for the last 20% of the drive to go skiing. Heck, my home mountain averages over 500" per year at the top, but im usually driving wet roads until about 10mins before the parking lot... and for those conditions a "winter focused" Allweather tire keeps tread wear down, keeps MPG up, handles wet and ponded pavement well, and is the better option.Quote:
Originally Posted by skuff
When i am driving my kid to daycare in the morning, absently answering "why" questions while thinking about work and what errands i need to run after work i am honestly not locked in on driving, and if that commute was on slick roads every day i would want tires that were locked in and predictable (winter tires). But if i am only driving on slick roads the last few miles before the ski hill, or 3 days a year at home i can easily manage with a less predictable tire because i will be mentally locked in as a driver.
I have a 4th gen 4runner with Falken AT3Ws that i LOVE, but they are on their last legs and could easily be swapped out before this coming winter (but ill probably see how they do in the first snow first). They hit the perfect sweet spot of winter performance, MPG, road noise, and wear durability. I have no idea what im gonna get next- I want to find another set of AT3Ws, but if those arent available i guess im looking at KO2s or something similar. Not looking forward to having to make that choice and pay through the nose.
https://www.michelinman.com/auto/tir...ender-ltx-m-s2
I live where you live and ski where you ski. Been using these for 9 years on my 4Runner. Tread lasts forever, great in rain and most snow conditions.
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Thread bump as I had to deal with the reality of my kids and their gear getting bigger and traded my beloved A4 in for a Lezbaru Outback XT. In the Audi I've always used 2 sets of wheels with Performance Winter tires , both for the better winter compound and to get a smaller wheel with a beefier sidewall than the stock 40 series low profile tires on the lowered sport suspension.
I went performance winter (Vred Wintrac Pro, Michelin Pilot Alpin) vs full snow like X-Ice because while we drove through some heinous conditions stormchasing up to VT, our daily driving is in Philly with very little snow, and even going up to the mountains most of the driving is hundreds of miles on dry or wet highway before the last 1/3rd or so. I'm not averse to changing wheels and tires seasonally as that's what I've done before, but with the significantly lower performance needs of the Outback vs the Audi and already having 60 series sidewalls stock, does this use case argue for an All Weather tire instead like the Cross Climate 2 or similar? I've seen reviews comparing the Cross Climate 2 to an X Ice 2 ,but have never seen a comparison to a performance winter like a Pilot Alpin 5 . How much snow performance is lost here?
As far as summer , the stock outback Toyo tires suck ass anyway, so I don't see giving up too much as opposed to the Conti DWS 06+ on the Audi (couldn't do full summers as way too much erratic shoulder season here where it can be 80 in November or 20 in April). But I have heard the wet braking on the Cross Climates is meh at best.
Only other concern with the CC2 is that having the "winter" tire on all year would lead to way more wear so they would be less effective in the winter.
TL:DR... Continue to run 2 sets of tires and wheels w Performance Winters w a new Outback Turbo or go CC2?
I think if you have a use case that dictates having two wheel sets (which is sounds like you do) and you are used to the performance of a true winter tire... why would you compromise both directions and run a year round AT tire?
True, although with the new car would need to buy new wheels , but I guess the main question is with modern all weather tires like the CrossClimate2 , would I really be giving up much of anything over a "performance winter" tire like the Pilot Alpin 5 or Vredstein Wintrac ? Since a full studless winter tire like an X Ice just doesn't work with my usageQuote:
Originally Posted by ASmileyFace
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I went from Vredestein Wintrac Pro on a prior vehicle to CC2 (year-round) on two current vehicles (all of them AWD of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman
I sure haven't noticed any drop-off in winter performance.
Major caveat though that I'm talking about packed snow, not deep unplowed snow.
OK tire nerds... Nokian Hakka 10 SUV, 12mm tread depth, for 1/2 ton truck with stock 32.1" tires
265/70R17 115T SL 40.8# 31.6"dia $1005/4
275/65R18 116T SL 41.9# 32.1"dia $1233/4
275/60R20 115T SL 44.1# 33.0"dia $1570/4
275/55R20 117T XL 43.0# 31.9"dia $1315/4
I haven't bought wheels yet... any reason not to go cheaper/skinnier?
Skinnier for snow and slush, wider for ice and hardpack (studded?) is how I look at it. The .5” difference in height is negligible for normal driving. Three different rim sizes though (my 1/2ton winters are on 17 steels, summers/all season on 18” stock Al alloys). I don’t get the low profile sidewall desire for a 4x4 truck, especially with the price premium.
Width doesn’t make much difference on packed snow or ice.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCMtnHound
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wf_mIlU82Ac
I go skinny on mine for the deep snow/ slush. Also go smallest rim to get more sidewall for pothole protection and some cost savings (usually).
Edit: You should get the 235/80R17 studded Hakka LT3‘s. Cut right through that deep snow and slush. 31.8” diameter.
In summit’s situation, price would mostly drive my decision, including cost of the wheels. Second is sidewall height (prefer not to have low profile sidewalls).
In your case, I’d probably try a year round 3PMSF with reputable snow performance, like a Nokian WRG4 or Outpost APT, or Falken Wildpeak AT Trail, and also get two pairs of K&K socks to throw in the spare tire compartment of the Subie *just in case* the tires run into shit ass conditions that leave you with less traction than is desirable. That approach suits the 99% of time conditions you will be driving and giving you a bailout for the less than 1% of time that a year round 3PMSF tire doesn’t get the job done. You’ll know quickly if the ride quality midsummer isn’t satisfactory, but as you say, it’s an Outback XT, not an S4 or GTI, you’ve got kids in the back, and you are no longer thinking about midsummer cornering and braking in the same way that you used to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman
I don’t have firsthand experience with K&Ks, but I have been watching videos and looking at test data for socks - they basically have about on par grip with chains in most conditions, more durable than Autosocks, smaller and lighter to store than chains, quicker to put on than chains,
no clearance concerns unlike with chains. I bought a set for my RV trailer and will be putting them to use this winter.
I do like skinny tires, I'm all about narrowing snows so you don't get spun by dipping a tire into slush. But is 235 seems really skinny for a 1/2 ton in terms of longevity and dry handling/braking? 265 (31.5") or 255 (31") seems more reasonable?Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Also the Hakka 10 SUV is a better performing tire in every respect vs the LT3, especially ride quality (SL vs E ply rating).
I was actually thinking Hakkapallitas for winter and the Nokian Outpost nAT (285/75/18 E) for the other 7-8 months as AT3Ws 285/75/18 C are hard to find.
I have Hakka 10s on my 4runner in the winter. They are great, no desire to try anything else.
I was half serious/half joking with that suggestion. I’d probably go with the Hakka 10 255’s unless you really are putting a premium on the deep snow/slush performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
Dry/wet performance is probably more affected by them being different tire models than it would be from going from 255 to 235.
https://youtu.be/Bgz0qF3CuNA?si=Hkwg28O8o_SG1KAb
Indeed. My problem with the 255 XL (31") is that it requires a 20" rim and I'm thinking that will have only a small improvement in handling vs a much larger negative effect on ride quality vs the 265 SL (31.5") on a 17" due to the massive 25% difference in sidewall height. And the 17" tires are massively cheaper... that is assuming I can find some used 17 5x150s for cheap... 20s abound.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Summit -
Do you have any good reason not to just stick with the stock diameter and go with the 18s that you listed?
-Your odometer/speedometer won’t be different / off between your summers and winters
-The 116 load index gives a small bump in reserve capacity over the 17” option, aka heat dissipation early and late season during freak heatwaves, without having to go up to 20 inch wheels (which I don’t really understand on trucks but that’s just me)
-Is there any chance you will ever need chains? Like for SAR purposes or something? Could be an issue with the larger diameter sizes
If it’s a popular model half ton, I’m sure you can find reasonably priced 18” take off OE wheels. And for extra good measure get new TPMS transmitter IDs cloned to the summer transmitters so that you can swap without any dashboard lights going off.
I have 20" rims w/ 33"s on my Tundra and can confirm, they aren't optimal. Feel the bumps for sure. I'll probably go 17" or 18" someday.
Wish I could swap them to my 1st gen Sequoia but different hole pattern.
Ah, didn’t go back and look at the original post. Forgot it was between 265 and 275, not 255.Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
Regardless, I’d probably go with the 265s on 17” rims, unless you’re dealing with deep snow and slush regularly.
I see your points on load rating, though the 265/70/17 do have a 115 which is very close to 116.Quote:
Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio
Stock tire is 32.1" on 18s. To do that with a Hakka 10 I'd have to do 275/65/18 since Nokian sadly doesn't make that in a 255/70/18.
So I was gonna use my 18s for AT tires (which I'm going to do 34.8" Nokian Outpost nAT 285/75/18) and buy (17") rims for the snows. The 17" snows also save $300/4 over the 18s which might make up for having to pay more for harder to find 17" rims.
I've never in my life had to use tire chains.
I don’t think I’ve ever HAD to use tire chains. But I’ve definitely been forced to…
Ordered Michelin Cross Climate 2's from Costco based on lots of Costco recommendations from customers on this thread.
Got shipping and delivery confirmations and probably ten appointment reminders.
Drove 1:30 and arrived at my appointment time.
No tires and the Costco Associate acted like it was my fault for using Costco.com. Only option was cancel online @Costco. com, reorder and wait three weeks and possibly have the same thing happen again.
Yikes, I’m sorry your warehouse has such a crappy employee. Costco can be a headache for tires that aren’t stocked, but the employees don’t have to be a dick about it.
I’ve done two sets of tires from my local warehouse. One was a non stick item and I seem to recall having to wait until the warehouse received them to book my appointment. Their appointment booking system has been shitty for years and it seems like the shop could always use one more roving employee.
I had a tire get irreparable damage and Costco could no longer order the tire from the manufacturer (BFG) as they replaced it with a new model. They didn’t recommend I mix and match, so I had to go to Discount Tire, who still had it in stock, replace the tire, and then have Costco reimburse me for the expense. It was a minor headache, mostly because it was often a challenge getting the Costco tire manager on the phone - but he was always helpful and great. Would have sucked if he was an A-hole.
In general I’ve had better experiences with Discount Tire.
They do come in handy sometimes:Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
I hauled a friend (who posts here sometimes) w/ a broken back down from Mt Baker in a snowstorm one time. Icy AF, chains were essential, mainly just for peace of mind.
In NZ they require them to get to some of the ski areas, putting them on in the mud is extra fun!
Needed them on a 2wd econoline in AK once. Went heli skiing.
Needed them on my old 2wd Ranger near the tunnel during the blizzard of '03. Got buried in an avalanche the next day.
Blizzard of '97 used them to get my POS Sentra up to Vail and slept in the car in the parking garage a few nights. Great powder days with young legs.
I never see chains except on the big trucks, but somethng I have never seen again so I was on the highway headed south when i seen this south azn guy stripped to a T-shirt on foot going north dragging a set of 18 wheeler chains up a steep hill pretty much in the middle of nowhere. I finish my gig and head back home north when I come upon buddy a 2nd time dragging chains up another hill 1 hr further north when i figured it out, these guys must have been hauling out of Vangroovy where there is lots of SA but no snow but they only had one set of chains for 2 trucks
I
early 80's I met a ski bum/ carpenter/ windsurfer/ speed skier ( you know the type) who told me they would sell & instal chains on the road to Tahoe, it was hard work to make 500$ back when that was pretty good money for a days work
Chain monkeys.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
please dude the correct nomenclature would be South Asian CanadiansQuote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
pretty strange to come 800kms narth with no chains in the dead of winter
Putting my snow tires on Friday I’m not the problem people
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I've needed to use chains twice on my Xterra. Both involved trying to get other people unstuck; one was a guy in a new-to-him Wrangler with highway tires on an unplowed forest road, and the other was a guy with bald tires on a full-sized truck in a snowbank at Big Sky.
I put some Nokian Outpost APT's on my Subaru Outback. Really like the ride and how they handle so far but haven't had them in any bad weather/snow conditions. Despite that, I'm feeling optimistic about them. Had the Falkens prior and liked those a lot but decided to give the Nokia's a try.
Reorded on Tires.com. Tires came in three days and I had them installed the same day, at the local shop, that I can ride my bike to/from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredhead
Maybe $200/more than Costco,but I didn't get Nitrogen.
Well worth it and I won't ever go back to Costco for tires.
First big storm on the Cross Climates and they performed admirably.
Getting ahead of all the upcoming snow tire questions:
Now that the Conti VikingContact 8 is available in the states, that is the studless winter tire you want. VikingContact 7, Hakkas and X-Ice Snows all had strengths and weaknesses compared to each other, but the 8s outperform the Hakkas and X-Ice everywhere in testing.
Conti has a $110 rebate on them thru the end of August.
I had Viking contact 7s on my last car, they were great in the snow but sketchy in the 40-50 degree rain that is most of winter here. New car currently has shitty all seasons that will be replaced this fall.
Currently thinking pirelli scorpion weather actives as a do it all tire. Has anyone used these? Second option is cross climate 2s but the sizing and pricing is better on the pirellis. Third option is find another wheelset and get some performance winters but I am not sure how much extra snow performance this nets over the all weathers and living in Seattle 95% of my winter miles are wet roads with the last 5 in mixed snow. I had Dunlop performance winters 2 cars ago and they worked well for this but that was the pre all weather era.
Thoughts?
Same story here, a full Nordic winter stud less would be a terrible choice here because most driving is wet or could and dry until I get into the mountains. Tyypically did Performance Winters (Pilot Alpin, Pirelli Sottozero, etc) for my Subies or Audi. Went to a CrossClimate 2 and if anything it's equal if not better in the snow than those were . The only negative is dry performance in the summer vs a more performance tire but since I switched to an Outback XT that's kind of moot anyway now.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlh
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