Zwift, TR, Sufferfest etc

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Originally Posted by TrueNorth

I'm upgrading to a wheel-off trainer, and will soon be selling my Tacx Vortex wheel-on smart trainer. I've had it for a little over a year, and done maybe 20 ish rides so it's in excellent condition. The local market is hottttt right now, so thinking of listing locally for $500 CAD with a lightly used trainer tire thrown in. I can figure out a shipping cost if anybody is seriously interested.

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Tempting, but I really want a wheel off trainer as well......hmmmm.

Well that sure escalated quickly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peeozS_3bfc

You’re gonna scare off any potential new riders. [emoji6]
Don’t worry, the mere mortals at the back of the pack are east to keep up with!

8 Riders tonight!
I left the ride early, after already riding 50km earlier in the day for Tour de Zwift, so I missed the fireworks at the end.
Attachment 357602
Tonight we had:
Dee Hubbs (left early)
jamal (P.L.)
lowagriz (T.A.)
justcuz (K.R.)
huckbucket (PMJ)
Merlyn (S.S.)
EWG (Fur Thur)
Vtskibum (M.P.)

Nice racing guys.

Thanks for letting me back on after the lap 2 sprint, I really was toasted. I pushed the pace over the viaduct to make sure I was with you guys going into the climb. I died about the same spot as last time, halfway up the climb. Still had fun.

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

Do I did a bit of trainer/bike maintenance tonight.
I have a Kurt Kinetic R1 (wheel off, smart trainer). When it first came out in Dec 2019/Jan 2020 it got some unfavorable reviews from the high profile reviewers like DC Rainmaker, GP Lama and Slowtwitch. They thought it was noisy, the software program was spotty and not very accurate at the top of the power range (1600w-2000w), abs some serious lag in power data.
In late January early February 2020 Kurt Kinetic put them on sale for 40% off of the $1100 retail price directly from their web page. I also had a proform deal at %40, so this “new deal” was not of any use to me. I called customer service and and spoke to someone and let them know I was trying to buy an R1 online but the discount code was not working. She created a “unique one-off code” for me that I then was able to actually get to work on my online proform, and ended up getting the R1 at 40% off of my 40% off pro-price. It ended up being just over $400 total!
Little did they know they would not have had any issues selling all the models at full price once the pandemic lockdown hit.
Since then Kurt Kinetic has released a few different software and hardware updates, and the machine has since been reviewed as being accurate.
I lube the free hub at the start of the winter season, and adjusted the belt tension after the initial break in period. What I don’t do is calibrate it very often. It’s a pain in the ass to do a 10 minute Zwift ride, stop, un-pair the trainer from Zwift, log into the Kurt Kinetic app, pair the trainer, and then do a spin down calibration. But when ever I have done the calibration the 780ish value is always within 1 or 2 of the same number I always get.
Tonight I decided my chain needed some love, so I pulled my chain and soaked it in the wax crock pot (Whole other thread).
While cleaning a bit of dry wax flakes off of the cassette and the base of the trainer I wondered how accurate my R1 trainer really was?
Has my FTP really increased X amount, am I really that much slower (less powerful) than 10 guys on the TGR ride?
I have a Stages Power Meter Left Crank on my road bike, so I pulled that off of my road bike and installed it on my Zwift bike, with my Garmin Head Unit, along with a freshly waxed chain.
I did a few short NYC laps and then a big climb up Innsbruck KOM.
My numbers on my Garmin that was reading my Stages Power Meter were almost identical to the numbers on Zwift screen. The changes in power showed the exact same numbers simultaneously with no lag in either reading. And after a 45 min ride in Innsbruck all my power numbers recorded on my Garmin were the exact same as my Strava numbers recorded from Zwift.
I’m impressed and happy with my Kurt Kinetic R1, and also feel confident the Zwift numbers are accurate.

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Its pretty clear to me that you have too much time on your hands. Hopefully that changes soon.

Fun one tonight, well done Jamal. Tough time keeping my dinner down at the end there


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Originally Posted by jamal

Well that sure escalated quickly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peeozS_3bfc

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Thanks for posting!

Was messing with the new bike tonight and my first time with Di2. Third time up on the climb was in the little ring and discovered Di2's clever trick to avoid cross-chaining by locking you out of the two smallest cogs. :rolleyes: Not that I would have hung with you and Mike (way to go Mike!) but I ran out of gears halfway up the climb when Mike hit it.

As always ... lots of fun and thanks for organizing D!

I thought you had me when you caught my attack at 1k and then got that little gap. I was going to wait until we were closer but when you used the truck I figured I better not give you any more time to catch your breath.

You definitely caught me out on the false flat with the feather. My counter wasnt gonna stick as you saw. I went pretty deep on those repeated max efforts, haven’t done those in a while.

I’ll have to look at my power numbers as well, did see I PR’ed most of the segments on the backside. Think I took 6+ seconds off my fastest hill to finish time. Will have to check power curve tomorrow, late east coast time now


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Originally Posted by EWG

Its pretty clear to me that you have too much time on your hands. Hopefully that changes soon.

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I haven't worked since mid September.
I've skied almost 50 days so far this season.
I have 5 excel spread sheets on the go, just related to Zwift. One (1) for Zwift bikes and wheel purchases, comparing points/levels and climbing/aero/weight ratings. One (2) for the attendance of TGR rides, and TGR names vs Zwift names. One (3) for the routes on Tour de Zwift, comparing the routes lengths and elevation gain in each of the different ride categories, and which ones will get me a new route badge. (4) I also have one with all the Zwift routes with KMs and climbing meters, so I can check them off as I get route badges. (5) And I have one for Watts to W/kg based on my actual weight and target weights.

If waxing my chain and calibrating a power meter is too much time on my hands, you should see how much ski wax I have gone through tuning my own skis lately. I just ordered 900g of PS6 from Swix. I have skied in 9 different pairs of my skis this season.
Yes I am use to being very busy, and I have time off of work that I have not had in 20 years.
Attachment 357620

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

I haven't worked since mid September.
I've skied almost 50 days so far this season.
I have 5 excel spread sheets on the go, just related to Zwift. One (1) for Zwift bikes and wheel purchases, comparing points/levels and climbing/aero/weight ratings. One (2) for the attendance of TGR rides, and TGR names vs Zwift names. One (3) for the routes on Tour de Zwift, comparing the routes lengths and elevation gain in each of the different ride categories, and which ones will get me a new route badge. (4) I also have one with all the Zwift routes with KMs and climbing meters, so I can check them off as I get route badges. (5) And I have one for Watts to W/kg based on my actual weight and target weights.

If waxing my chain and calibrating a power meter is too much time on my hands, you should see how much ski wax I have gone through tuning my own skis lately. I just ordered 900g of PS6 from Swix. I have skied in 9 different pairs of my skis this season.
Yes I am use to being very busy, and I have time off of work that I have not had in 20 years.

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I'll be in your neck of the woods Thursday. I will be dropping off 3 sets of skis and 4 bikes. Skis get re-edged at 1.5/1.5 for the wide ones, 2.0/1.0 for the narrower ones. All purpose wax is fine. Bikes should get full drivetrain cleans (just leave the chains bare, I don't do that wax crap.) You'll see one of the reverbs is stuck down and another has the 1" sag thing so full rebuilds on those seatposts please.

Thanks, I'll pick them up next Tuesday. What kind of beer do you like?

Thanks Dee. Appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

I haven't worked since mid September.
I've skied almost 50 days so far this season.
I have 5 excel spread sheets on the go, just related to Zwift. One (1) for Zwift bikes and wheel purchases, comparing points/levels and climbing/aero/weight ratings. One (2) for the attendance of TGR rides, and TGR names vs Zwift names. One (3) for the routes on Tour de Zwift, comparing the routes lengths and elevation gain in each of the different ride categories, and which ones will get me a new route badge. (4) I also have one with all the Zwift routes with KMs and climbing meters, so I can check them off as I get route badges. (5) And I have one for Watts to W/kg based on my actual weight and target weights.

If waxing my chain and calibrating a power meter is too much time on my hands, you should see how much ski wax I have gone through tuning my own skis lately. I just ordered 900g of PS6 from Swix. I have skied in 9 different pairs of my skis this season.
Yes I am use to being very busy, and I have time off of work that I have not had in 20 years.
Attachment 357620

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I love seeing people doing shit like this.

Looks like some Z-Power shenanigans going on with the jersey boy, just sayin is all!

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Looks like some Z-Power shenanigans going on with the jersey boy, just sayin is all!

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Gonna need this in English please. Kthxbye

I’m confused, too many gummies. I thought MP was White Room Guardian, dumb trainer. My bad, carry on

I don’t think I’ve ever had my numbers go red, does that happen only if you’re pushing mega watts?

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

I’m confused, too many gummies. I thought MP was White Room Guardian, dumb trainer. My bad, carry on

I don’t think I’ve ever had my numbers go red, does that happen only if you’re pushing mega watts?

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Numbers flash red when you hit your highest w/kg for a given ride. You must have been look during the sprint on lap 2.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

I’m confused, too many gummies. I thought MP was White Room Guardian, dumb trainer. My bad, carry on
I don’t think I’ve ever had my numbers go red, does that happen only if you’re pushing mega watts?

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I've provided a spreadsheet, so you should know who's who.

If a riders w/kg goes over their FTP, their avatar will stand up. If a rider’s w/kg goes above 8w/kg, the number will go orange.

No wonder I’ve never seen orange, damn!

Avatar also stands up if your cadence is under 70rpm I think. I don't tend to run the color line at the bottom, generally know pretty well my power numbers and certainly can feel it.

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Originally Posted by VTskibum

Avatar also stands up if your cadence is under 70rpm I think. I don't tend to run the color line at the bottom, generally know pretty well my power numbers and certainly can feel it.

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The orange we are talking about is in the other riders stats box on the right. When you see PMJ is 2 seconds ahead of you and doing 3.3w/kg. When he accelerates to over 8w/kg his w/kg number turns to orange.

Not the graph, the rider list on the right goes orange when you crush watts. I always use the bottom graph.

Light/grey under 4
brighter/white 4-8
red above 8

Standing is a cadence thing, but maybe is also related to grade and power?

Sprinting seems to happen at above 10 w/kg.

"jersey boy" has only done one TGR group ride because of said dumb trainer. WTF is "Z power shenanigans" anyway?

I got my smart trainer a couple of days ago, have signed up to zwift but still need to sort out my bike / pain cave so maybe in a week I can join but my lord you guys will destroy me!


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When you don't have a trainer that measures power, you can still have zwift estimate what it thinks your doing based on their curves for different trainers and wheel speed. It tends to be inaccurate and in a race or fondo or whatever there's always some guy with no little lightning bolt, meaning he doesn't have a real power meter, doing insane power numbers making everyone miserable. Even the wheel-on trainers with power measurement can be suspect because it's so dependent on tire pressure and tension. We have a guy in our local races who, well, I'm just going to say is a lot faster on zwift than in real life.

I did a fondo group ride a few weeks ago and like half the front group was all dq'd in zwiftpower after the fact (zwiftpower = results tracking website, zpower = estimated power, different things). One guy was just off the front doing 5+ w/kg the whole time and we never caught him. Then I got crushed at the top of epic kom by a pro woman. It was the hardest ride I can remember doing in like the last few months.

I'm all about level playing field so I'm not gonna ride with you guys until I get a new trainer.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

I'm all about level playing field so I'm not gonna ride with you guys until I get a new trainer.

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To be clear, this is all friendly stuff and not a competition anyway because M and P essentially win by default. So join in whether you have a smart trainer or not.

And Sandbox ... there are a lot worse things than getting dropped. Anyway, first two laps we really try hard to get everyone around as a group. Don't feel intimidated.

Ehh I might still join. I always save the invites just in case. I have a really hard time not racing though, so when I get smoked I want to know I got smoked with an accurate effort on my part haha.

Yeah you're fine, especially if you do the calibration stuff, it should be pretty accurate.

Seriously, this is a fun ride, no real competition. Just maggs on trainers! I don’t care what you ride, no points involved, come one come all

Absolutely agree not to be afraid of it. I pushed it a bit on the begging of the first lap (b/c I was really cold and needed to warmup), but I was keeping an eye on whether the group is together and backed off if anyone was getting dropped. We also slow down after the hill and sprint to let people re-join up until the last hill where it kinda goes nuts.

I've tended to ride up front as it gives me a bit more work while still keeping group together, Dee did a lot of the pulls last night as well. Think most folks were still doing 2-2.5w/kg when not on the front. There are no pro contracts coming out of this, and look forward to these as a good steady ride w/ one really hard ~5min effort at the end.

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Originally Posted by VTskibum

There are no pro contracts coming out of this ...

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Wait ... what?

No pro contracts!?!?! Then why ride? I only do this stuff for the Strava and IG cred.

Damn, I need to join, but I have been fat biking and strength training.
Also, I am a little intimidated by the technology, and I still have some dumb questions.
I have a laptop with an HDMI out, and the Kickr. Is this all I need?
Do you all do this from a laptop, or could I mirrorcast with an LG phone and an LG tv?
I guess I could try it and find out, or (god forbid) search...
Sorry for being such a JONG

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Originally Posted by rideit

Damn, I need to join, but I have been fat biking and strength training.
Also, I am a little intimidated by the technology, and I still have some dumb questions.
I have a laptop with an HDMI out, and the Kickr. Is this all I need?
Do you all do this from a laptop, or could I mirrorcast with an LG phone and an LG tv?
I guess I could try it and find out, or (god forbid) search...
Sorry for being such a JONG

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I'd give both laptop and the LG phone broadcast to LG tv a try.

I run Zwift from my iPhone with a Apple HDMI connector onto a TV. iPhone running zwift is connected to my Elite Direto. Works pretty well w/o dropping a ton of $$ for a better dedicated setup. I've tried justifying a 4k AppleTV for my Zwift setup, but really never had enough justification over existing setup

another JONG question... do you need a HR monitor? I have an Apple watch but apparently it doesn't broadcast the HR signal so do i need to buy a strap one?

Only if you plan on racing the big Zwift races. For general riding and joining us, not required

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I just use my laptop. The trainer and hrm connect directly to it with bluetooth so I don't need anything else. A bigger screen (this is 17" I think) would be nice so I could see the w/kg numbers of everyone a little more clearly- is that a 3 or a 5?

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Originally Posted by Sandbox

another JONG question... do you need a HR monitor? I have an Apple watch but apparently it doesn't broadcast the HR signal so do i need to buy a strap one?

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I have one but have been riding without trying to solve a problem where zwift wasn't seeing my wattage. No worries without a HR monitor. I think I've fixed the wattage problem. I now connect the Core to the bluetooth and everything else (cadence, etc) to ANT. Seems to be working.

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Originally Posted by rideit

Damn, I need to join, but I have been fat biking and strength training.
Also, I am a little intimidated by the technology, and I still have some dumb questions.
I have a laptop with an HDMI out, and the Kickr. Is this all I need?
Do you all do this from a laptop, or could I mirrorcast with an LG phone and an LG tv?
I guess I could try it and find out, or (god forbid) search...
Sorry for being such a JONG

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Tons of ways to set it up. I use a laptop with an HDMI out to a TV, with my iphone open to the companion app so I can complain about people over chat.

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Originally Posted by VTskibum

Absolutely agree not to be afraid of it. I pushed it a bit on the begging of the first lap (b/c I was really cold and needed to warmup), but I was keeping an eye on whether the group is together and backed off if anyone was getting dropped. We also slow down after the hill and sprint to let people re-join up until the last hill where it kinda goes nuts.

I've tended to ride up front as it gives me a bit more work while still keeping group together, Dee did a lot of the pulls last night as well. Think most folks were still doing 2-2.5w/kg when not on the front. There are no pro contracts coming out of this, and look forward to these as a good steady ride w/ one really hard ~5min effort at the end.

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For example this guy. He came out a little crisp last night cause his basement was cold. I've sent him a space heater and wool jersey so you should be good next time.

Also it's only a 5 min effort if you are able to push about 350watts for 5 minutes. For the rest of us it's more like a 7 minute effort.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Seriously, this is a fun ride, no real competition. Just maggs on trainers! I don’t care what you ride, no points involved, come one come all

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Completely true. We wait for people stuck off the back even when they say to go on without them, whether its a mech, watt drop, or just not having the legs. Added bonus I've seen is that it's definitely helping me find a little form again after a long layoff. Last couple weeks I've had better legs. I am not, however, ready to push 650 watts for 40 seconds to bounce over that last hill like some of us. Not yet anyway.

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Originally Posted by huckbucket

And Sandbox ... there are a lot worse things than getting dropped. Anyway, first two laps we really try hard to get everyone around as a group. Don't feel intimidated.

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Yeah, Huck could give you shit. He's always mean to me.

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Originally Posted by jamal

I just use my laptop. The trainer and hrm connect directly to it with bluetooth so I don't need anything else. A bigger screen (this is 17" I think) would be nice so I could see the w/kg numbers of everyone a little more clearly- is that a 3 or a 5?

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It's a 1.