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Basically just enough snow to ski. A little bit better if you stay on the trails, of course.
I did a quick search in here but nothing came up - thought I'd see if there's any experience or recommendations with sleds/pulks. Looking to be able to include a 9-month old on some Nordic laps when we have the chance.
Wife and I only have classic gear for now - etiquettewise I'm assuming I stay out of the track if I have a sled even if the sled skis can straddle it or can be one in/one out. Need to start looking into skate either way, but it seems like skate could be a bit less smooth for the little guy in the sled.
We loved our Chariot with ski attachments. I was able to stride or skate with the kid onboard (intended for machine groomed trails only). Cruised the XC downhills nicely too (with the kid yelling “fast fast!”) They’re kind of expensive, of course, though we got a decent chunk back selling it. Sleds don’t work nearly as well, though they might work for less energetic (and less distance) snow-covered-road type skiing.
I used one of these a few times when my kids were little: https://www.wildernessengineering.com/kindershuttle. It has a flat plastic bottom so no need to worry about messing up the tracks unless they're really soft. You won't set any speed records (especially uphill) but you'll get a workout in. Downhills are actually easier since the sled acts as a brake. For infants you can just put them in a car seat and then put the car seat in the sled (with lots of warm blankets).
You might see if any of your local resorts rent them - good to try and decide if it's what you want before buying. When my kids got a little bigger and could hold their heads up it was easier to just carry them in a backpack, so we didn't use the sled for long.
Valtonen ski factory started making skis in Orimattila, Finland around the first world war, not quite sure which year exactly, and shut down shop in early 80's. Their skis were sold under other brands as well in the 70's, but they didn't really adopt new materials/methods (also probably some business continuation challenges) and were bought out by another ski maker Jarvinen (Jarvinen was little higher end brand), and soon after that company went bankrupt. Obviously those skis are their later model, do they even have fish scale or are they waxable?Quote:
Originally Posted by romeo tango
Here's a photo from the factory, possibly from the 50's.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishstx
Seconded. We had our daughter in the chariot in her first winter (3months old at the start) and she loved it. Would sleep most of the time. Used it until her 5th year I think? Replaced the skis twice as we even used the skis with the front jogger wheel around town when the snow was deep - worked better than the rear wheels for those conditions. Infant adapter to start, then just the regular seat. Great workout.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobz
Edit to add: the replacement skis were kiddie XC skis picked up at the 2nd hand sports store, just drilled and countersank for the t-bolts. The old kiddie classics performed even better than the originals.
We had him using the skis (with kiddie-cut skins), with kiddie SNS boots/bindings, occasionally for a season or two, after he outgrew getting dragged around. Then I plugged and remounted to the Chariot rig to sell the thing.
As for whether you'll mess up the machine-groomed tracks, don't worry about the tracks; flat skis going in that general direction aren't going to do significant damage to the grooming. If anything, one of the skis might get held briefly in a track, but it'll come out when you'd want it to. The skis are slightly toed-in, BTW. I seem to recall mostly not striding in the tracks when towing, though, because what you're more concerned about is the outer ski of the Chariot getting off of side of the groomed surface. Re etiquette, skaters and everyone else should be accommodating if you're making any effort at all to make room for them; we got nothing but smiles from other folks when we were towing our kid at XC areas.
Some blasts from the past (you can see the dude he grew into further up the page)...
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(latter photo: Those aren't the Chariot skis he's on there, those would be K-Booms with strap bindings, but notice the skins. Skins will get a kid comfortable on XC gear really quickly. Later on, we did a thing where we'd backcountry ski uphill with him using XC gear with skins, and then ski downhill using his fixed-heel downhill boots/skis; me carrying a set of boots/skis for him in a pack at any given time.)
Chariot infant stoke!
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Awesomeness!
Stopped over to Chippygrass for beers after carving the new ripsticks yesterday at TL, so happy to see parents hauling the pulks around the snow farm.
Bobz thx in advance for more thoughts on that new boot/binding system. I looked into it a year ago but the boot price was too high considering how infrequently I’d use it.
I have some Atomic Chugach skis / voile 3 pin w/ detachable heel spring cable that I use on the blizzard days from the house, but my 2 pairs of 3 pin boots (Rossi bcx6, Merrill ultras) are heavy and not inspiring. Open to ideas on lightish but good ankle support duckbill boots, or maybe going to the Xplore system. I can see the stride advantage but for making tele turns it seems like they rely on the driver to get that BoF flex going.
https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/cr...y=US&var=89841
…seems like the best xplore boot for my application.
From telemarktalk discussion:
It’s ridiculous to expect users to swap in the firm bumper for each minigolf descent, but afaik rotte isn’t planing on a mode switching version like this ^ right?Quote:
The hard/sole flex provides a feeling more like my experience with cable bindings. I think an Xplore binding with a mode switch and a solid block for the boot toe to rest and flex against in skiing mode is possible.
With all this fresh snow finally, XC touring gear isn't exactly on deck at the moment, but I'll have more to say about skiing on them when I've put another day or two on them; may be a few weeks.
The bumpers are easy to swap out, but yeah, I have no intention of changing out bumpers mid-tour. I think the point is more to allow different bumpers for different styles of tours. As I said, I found the pivot action (using the default middle flex bumper) not all that far from free-pivot; next time out I'll try the stiffer ones, and I won't be surprised if I end up preferring them for all-around use. The third option, the free-pivot non-bumper inserts, I can't imagine ever wanting to use; even on an extended steep skin-up, the basic bumpers have a very easy pivot, and it's actually nice to have a bit of pivot resistance when doing kick-turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by frorider
Besides which, the bumpers aren't going to make a huge difference for turnability. Some, which is why I'm expecting to prefer the stiffer ones, but not huge. My little Tahoe Meadows tour mentioned a week or so ago was mostly flats (Chickadee Ridge was looking way too bony) but we did some low-angle turns. The boot-binding system works for that, with or without the greater pivot resistance. I wasn't feeling any torsional wash-out like I felt before when using these same skis with some softened-by-age Asolo Summits. With the light-duty (as BC gear goes) Xplore-compatible boots and appropriate skis for the binding system, those components are going to be what mainly keeps you from doing hard-dialed turns (or any half-elegant turns at all if the snow is unfavorable) on this gear.
One more thing to consider about these bindings versus other options: Lighter-duty duckbill boots have a terrible rep for problems with sole separation at the toe. Which is because the 3-pin system assigns nearly all of the task of enabling striding rotation to the boot sole near the toe; that generates a lot of dynamic stress on the front of the boot. The system bindings eliminate nearly all of that stress on boot's toe area. If you're looking at a boot like, say, the Alpina Alaska, and it's available in your choice of 3-pin versus Xplore, I can tell you it's incredibly tempting to go with 3-pin (I have nearly a dozen sets of 3-pin bindings sitting in a box), but Xplore is the what I went with (I got Alfas, not Alpinas) because I just don't trust duckbill on this class of boot.
I've been using Xplore for a couple of seasons, so I can add some onto bobz's comments.
For most of my tours with Xplore, I use just the standard bumper. However, I do find that the stiff bumper helps with turnability, enough so that I will probably switch out bumpers at the top of a long run with lots of turn opportunities -- but I would not switch bumpers for a few turns or for a long, mellower downhill.
IME, the stiff bumper is tolerable for short distances of flatter terrain or for short uphills, but I find it too restrictive to use for a longer tour.
I also find Xplore works very well for K&G, again with the standard bumper. Downhill control is also very good, considering the lightness of the boots and binding: Xplore boot soles are fairly stiff, and with the torsional rigidity of the boot, binding and the boot-binding connection, the system offers more control IMO than either NNN-BC or 3-pin (with a non-plastic boot and w/o a cable).
Some potential downsides: Obviously the cost of bindings and boots; I managed to find everything on sale. Also, there were numerous cases early on of the boot pins getting stuck inside the boot. This has apparently been resolved, but Rottefella came out with a boot-pin greasing system and recommendations after the problems first occurred. I had a boot pin get stuck once, but I was able to get it unstuck and it hasn't been a problem since.
Some people with lots of mileage on the system have run into issues with the sole wearing thin at the front of the boot near the boot pins, even partially exposing the boot-pin fitting within the sole. If you look at the boots, there isn't much room there even when they're new. The best advice here is not to use the boots for a lot of hiking to get to the snow, etc., as that may be the main culprit. Of course, this sort of thing could happen with NNN-BC boots too.
As for the binding, the only issue I've heard of is some people breaking off the white tab at the front (used to remove the boot from the binding).
I have the duckbill version of that Crispi boot, and I like them. However, they are not quite as good for the downhill as I hoped, mainly because neither the leather upper nor the sole are that stiff. The composite cuff with buckles certainly helps, but it doesn't quite make up for the softness of the rest of the boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by frorider
I think the Xplore version will be a better boot for the downhill, mainly because the Xplore sole is much stiffer.
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Originally Posted by OJ204
nice photo!
the bases are waxless ....
I saw some Litex CS models for sale on Ebay and Etsy mentioning 1980's origin
I never would have guessed these skis were 40 years old!
in other news:
skiing at 49N was deep, dreamy and deserted
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First day out, the punishment was real. Lots of fast skiers out today in Woodstock VT. Easy to get carried away trying to chase. I blew up royally after going all in, up a rolling climb. Got to the bottom horfed up some nasty lung-butter, eyes watering, nose running. Felt good to blow the pipes out, ski’s and snow were fast until a wicked squall dumped an inch in like 25 minutes. Full on white-out on the flats.
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brutal temps riding chairs this weekend,
decided to keep it simple and dork the back 9 today
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Sweet.
Got the GF out for some skill and confidence building at the local park away from the masses. It helped her a lot and good snow condition made for very enjoyable cruise.
Bought some Karhu backcountry SNS skis today off FB marketplace, and the guy was nice enough to gift me some Alpina NNN BC boots... So now I need some BC skis!
Are you still able to find them out there secondhand? I will take a trip to play it again and the local gear consignment store but I don't think i've seen NNN BC skis in a LONG time.
SNS and NNN BC are binding systems, not skis. Either can be mounted on XC skis. NNN BC are still very common bindings in the XC world. SNS are harder to find boots for. Go back a page for several good posts on this.
SNS is not only defunct (though phased out recently enough that used SNS boots shouldn't be hard to find), but inappropriate for backcountry XC gear. Unless it's SNS-BC, roughly equivalent to but non-compatible with NNN-BC; the SNS BC system was phased out at least a decade ago, so those you would have a hard time finding boots for (and be careful with ancient boots; my SNS-BC Greenlands were nice, but basically broken by the time I switched my XC touring skis to NNN-BC). NNN-BC is a current boot-binding system for XC touring.
Fischer made some good sns-bc boots, too.
Ben finished in 6th on Friday. Amazing!
I think this has been shared but seriously it needs to be posted monthly.
https://youtu.be/sixK9NONZ98?si=WqW4YEw9W__QgiAQ
Nils Larsen
Godfather of Hok
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Got out yesterday on the golf course trails. First time all winter we've had enough snow for grooming.
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If any of you are attending the Birkebeiner this year, I have a guest bedroom available. I’m an hour away. Herbal gifts appreciated.
https://www.birkie.com/ski/events/birkie/
The Birkie is still a month away, which is good, because we need snow.
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Heard a rumor it might be a 10k loop this year….dear god that sounds awful.
You think they’ll be able to open up the full trail?
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Other kind of xc ski today, first time in 2 years since we had such a bust of winter last year. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3634fd075a.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTskibum
how does that work?
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E got a doggie skijor kit for his 6th birthday. Took it for a quick shakedown at the golf course, he digs it.
Nice!
Alpine this morning, Nordic this afternoon
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I'm thinking of getting into Nordic skiing. I'm a weekend warrior from the BA and I'm over the traffic on 80, IKON Pass lift lines, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I have a fair amount of experience resort skiing but I'm a total XC noob. I do enjoy the cardio aspect, though, as I do a lot of cycling (road and MTB). I just don't want to give up winter sports entirely. I'm thinking of starting out with the set up linked below. Any reason I shouldn't start with that gear? I'll probably just be hitting the trails in the California SNO-Parks at first with one or two hour excursions. I just need a decent all around set up.
https://www.rei.com/product/224759/s...ntry-ski-boots
https://www.rei.com/product/224757/s...olink-bindings
Regarding ski length, I've read 15-20cm more than your height? Does this also apply to a quasi-beginner? The 185cm is only 7cm more than me. The 195cm is 17cm more. Any tips, advise, dos, don'ts, whatever would be great. Thanks!
I got those exact skis this year except with Combi boots so I can also use skate skis. Love them so far and got them for exactly the same reason. BA weekend warrior sick of 80 and lift lines. So far I have only taken them out at Royal Gorge though. I have the 175s but am 165 tall... Seem to work well enough but I am also a beginner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamburello Rouge