United Healthcare CEO shot to death in front of NYC investor meeting

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Originally Posted by summit

I think the extreme overhead caused by the middlemen factor in healthcare, and the market specific cost gouging by pharma, is why US healthcare costs are so high. It isn't payments to doctors, nurses and techs.

Most hospitals don't have shareholders because most are "non-profit." But I've come to learn that non-profit is a nebulous term in healthcare where for-profits can own non-profits and vice versa.

Insurance companies spend much of their costs trying to figure out how to charge more and pay less, including denials/lobbying/legal.

That forces hospitals and medical practices to spend a huge portion of their costs making sure they can get the insurance companies to pay including documentation/coding/compliance/billers/legal.

You basically cannot be a standalone medical practioner anymore as a doc, np, rn, pt, whatever unless you are cash only. You have to outsource your insurance/billing/appeals because the insurance companies have made it such a complex racket that it just gobbles time and resources.

Insurance companies don't care that they introduce massive inefficiencies into the system as long as by doing so, they make a profit.

That's where there is a MASSIVE burn. I bet between the sand that insurance company dumps in the healthcare gearbox and the gouging by pharma/pbm, that is probably 1/3 of every healthcare dollar spent in the USA.


I don't think you are gonna find many other countries where RNs do more than in the US.


What the fuck is a "nurse tech"?

Perhaps you meant CRNA, which is an anesthesia graduate degree prepared advanced practice nurse, typically fairly experienced in critical before their graduate program.

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You make good points.


Doctors in private practice are business persons, they made that choice, they are human, not saints, greedy like any person taking personal risk, and they are not except from everyday hassles, laws of nature and business, like the rest of us. Can’t cut it? Well the world needs ditch diggers too.

I could say the same thing about medicare, too much overhead at CMS, and it would get a lot more wasteful if we had a single payer system and the providers were not reigned in.


I just spent $7000 on two root canals. Good luck getting my dentist to play along with any of this. He’s the happiest to hear us all fight about the ins. Co. Cause he wants cash only.

I did the math, that guy is making a couple mil a yr. Not as a dentist, but by running a good business.

This “we’re entitled to all make millions, or 500k is horse shit with out risk, accountability, and doing a good job.

coño being a fer realz forrest gump right here… bless his heart.



fact.

USA be like..
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...607fc5855e.jpg

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Originally Posted by coldfeet

To be honest, I was not surprised that TGR came up with a thread of sick jokes about the murder of the UHC CEO. That's what you guys are good at. What surprised me a little is how everyone else either made or repeated sick jokes or was rapidly exposed to them, even if they don't hang around unfiltered backwaters of the Internet. .

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I was listening to NPR this morning on the way into work and heard the Pennsylvania Gov Josh Shapiro say "In some dark corners this killing is being celebrated, and that is unacceptable"... and i just thought to myself that these powerful folks are really trying to downplay the widespread public sentiment and its not just the dark corners. Its bright as day whole rooms of moderate society that are shrugging their shoulders saying that its not surprising, his ilk has it coming, and that its no tragedy... and its not a Trumptard vs Libtard thing... its a 0.1% vs 99.9% thing.


Remember: The ONLY reason this is such a big news story IS that there is large-scale lack of sympathy towards the victim. This would have 5% of the popularity if vast segments of society, crossing the political spectrum, werent empathizing more with Luigi, than with the murder victim. People, especially those in power, should pay attention to THAT, and take to heart why THAT is happening.

"Watching Star Wars, my friend cheered when the Emperor died. I reminded him that the Emperor was a human being with a granddaughter! How dare he!"

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Originally Posted by stealurface831

pretty handsome devil otherwise though.

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personally I was hoping to score his sisters phone number

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Originally Posted by fastfred

personally I was hoping to score his sisters phone number

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pics? shes probably pretty hairy... which could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the person.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

pics? shes probably pretty hairy... which could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the person.

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smoke show
at first I was betting monster italian bush but then maybe not

everyone here is debating stupid ass shit but every day I struggle with do I like shaved lazer hair removal pussy or big bush pussy or neatly trimmed pussy
I just can't make a decision sometimes and I can go either way anytime and still always enjoy myself

So this Ivy league graduate crosses all his Ts and dots his Is, but then gets to a McDonalds in Altoona and gets busted with the gun, a manifesto, and a bunch of fake ids, basically turning into a complete and total moron the second he got out of the city?

If I was a NYC prosecutor I would be very concerned about finding a jury that will convict unanimously in this case given the near universal hatred of health insurance CEOs in this country, but notably NYC.

If the only documented case of chieficide was not carried out by a disgruntled patient that says something really surprising.

It's been almost 8 years since I saw Richard R.'s signature the first time and I still remember his name. As chief medical officer of a BCBS licensee, he signed it to 5 identical rejection letters claiming my doctor had not said "you a candidate for surgery" (SIC 5x), despite time-consuming objections from multiple doctors.

Then my wife and I spent a Friday proving we'd be a bigger PITA than the average denial. I called the company that BCBS "outsourced" the rejections to and pressed 2 for provider instead of just hanging up as instructed. The nice whore there informed me that if I wanted to complain to my insurance company that would be fine because they were both owned by the same parent. Profitable nonprofit with a for-profit owner pays all profits to a for-profit sister for "services" and is fully ACA compliant. And already settled the class action about being a monopoly, so check mate!

My wife spent the day tracking Richard down. 8 hours on hold through about 6 levels of employees, each politely explaining that we couldn't really talk to Richard, he wasn't really the one making these decisions, and eventually he just wasn't in the office and wouldn't we just rather get a call back later? My wife out-polited them all: "no thanks, I just want to talk to Richard. I'll hold." Finally leaving a message with his assistant at 5 pm.

On Monday my doc called to tell me it had been approved.

I didn't really fantasize about killing Richard, but his employees gave me a few hours to wonder why no one else did. Last I saw he'd gone back to pediatrics. Probably 3 minutes at a time, trying for 2:20. It's a numbers game.

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Originally Posted by stealurface831

came to say exactly this.

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It all started during COVID.


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Administrative costs and some solutions: https://www.healthaffairs.org/conten...ealth-spending

A common theme in the health care fuckery articles all over the news is the administrative costs associated with the pre authorization process that eat up
the cost savings intended by the pre authorization process.

If Medicare is still functioning when I’m eligible, the general lack of pre authorization requirements vs Medicare Advantage seems like something that would improve my mental health & lower my BP.

Vigilante political violence: the killer is a privelaged idealist fighting a legally-but-corrupt system that causes mass unwarranted suffering, death, and cost to vulnerable people owed help, all in the name of profit. That system must change, but I cannot condone violence.

I have no sympathy for the killer, who chose unwarranted evil against evil... versus the sympathy I would have if this was instead personal revenge over say, the death of the killer's loved one without recourse.

I have no sympathy for the CEO, who chose mass evil for profit.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

I used tech as a laypersons catchall term for advanced practice nurse. The rules vary from state-to-state on what an advanced practice nurse can do. I'm arguing that nurses are capable of taking on more responsibility and achieving similar or even better outcomes at lower cost for certain types of things but are often restricted by law from doing so




No, not if HIPEC is considered the standard of care. My statements refer to hospitals overbilling and I even cited an academic journal. You should go read it

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I think that I’ve found the issue that people have with you. You try and mansplain everything. You assume your “audience” is ignorant and needs educating. Most posters in this thread, even the layperson like yourself, are familiar with what a nurse anesthetist/CRNA is. You also never even hint that the people you argue with may have a valid point, that you could be wrong or that you really don’t understand the nuance of the subject that you’ve claimed as having omniscience about.


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Originally Posted by bennymac;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]I speak from experience. You speak from news article. Oh and the health care workers in your family.

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He’s an “honorary” healthcare worker


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Originally Posted by Atrain505

I’ll provide an anecdote as an American living in Canada who has experienced both sides. My dad in the states has a rare form of cancer. He had great health insurance he paid exorbitantly through his business for years. He continues to survive because he takes a pill that is a mild chemo once a day that is about 30 grand a month (among a few other recurring treatment things). He has been stable for over a decade. Without that insurance he would be dead and bankrupt. He recently switched to Medicare. He continues to be covered. Early in his journey he was misdiagnosed many many times. That journey led him to Mayo Clinic.
I checked with an oncologist friend here in Canada. With the diagnosis treatment would be the same here. There was one time where my old man’s cancer started being unmanageable again for about 6 months. And that was because the company that owned the rights to the drug was bought. The new company stopped manufacturing the drug. Miraculously it came back on the market after 6 months with a 250% markup. Who would have thunk it? Luckily my old man had been stashing pills overtime and had a 3 month extra supply. But that 3 months without almost cost him.

Father in law here in Canada got brain cancer a few years ago. We didn’t know if he was going to survive the year. He didn’t get a good vibe from the first doctor. So he got a 2nd opinion/new doctor who was younger and had more energy as he put it. Chemo radiation. Etc. The whole nine yards. All delivered in a timely fashion because well when your life depends on it you get thrown to the front of the line. Cancer free for a couple years. Didn’t pay a dime but obviously he missed a bunch of work.

Anyways quite happy with socialist medicine here in Canada. Profit should not be a part of the decision tree in regards to human beings health plain and simple. It is morally and ethically fucked up.

Just some anecdotes.




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And

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Originally Posted by coldfeet

The whole "here is a story where something bad happened in Canada" argument, while possibly relevant to the quality of Canadian healthcare, is basically irrelevant to the story of the UHC CEO and why Americans are so riled up about the American healthcare system. .... A few of my non-USanian friends are a little taken aback, as if this indicates some kind of American gross insensitivity. I have tried explaining, No, it's just that you really do not imagine how alienating our system is and how fed up people are.

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Reading Athan and your account and other US persons account is surreal. So many concepts and defined terms used to describe the US system are so alien to us with socialized health care

And edit.

My Dad had a rough last 2 years (nerve disorder like Parkinsons). But we got lots of help and out-of pockets to my Mum and us kids were minimal.

My Mum's Canadian heart attack post care regime was described by US medical cousins as state of the art. Maybe they both got lucky?

Where the thread was lost:

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

The Canadian surgeon told her she was not a candidate for surgery. In other words the advanced treatment that saved her life wasn't available to her in Canada

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That's just not what it means. [/Nate]

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I think that I’ve found the issue that people have with you. You try and mansplain everything. You assume your “audience” is ignorant and needs educating. Most posters in this thread, even the layperson like yourself, are familiar with what a nurse anesthetist/CRNA is. You also never even hint that the people you argue with may have a valid point, that you could be wrong or that you really don’t understand the nuance of the subject that you’ve claimed as having omniscience about.


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I agree and gently disagree with the above. Yes I think MV could do a better job of recognizing the valid points others have made. But your example of mansplaining is actually similar to a cycle I’ve seen many times in which MV uses a colloquialism or simplified phrase in attempt to sidestep a side conversation that would distract from the main discussion. Then, the weakness or ‘inaccuracy’ of his colloquialism or simple phrase gets pointed out as someone tries to attack his armchair expertise…and MV gets a little exasperated that in order to defend himself he now has to have the very side conversation he wanted us all to avoid.

^ yes to frorider and MU's qutoed post. MV is highyl intelligent and capable of cutting through BS to return to the point in debates. I appreciate his postings greatly. But he also has weaknesses, such as those outlined above. Cheifly, when he arguest as if farther into the lay position than his own knowledge-set while debating with those who have more specialized knowledge than him... and I do feel granting valid points or recognizing others viewpoints helps reinforce the spirit of honest debate.

guys just let him cook.

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Originally Posted by fastfred;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji637][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]smoke show
at first I was betting monster italian bush but then maybe not

everyone here is debating stupid ass shit but every day I struggle with do I like shaved lazer hair removal pussy or big bush pussy or neatly trimmed pussy
I just can't make a decision sometimes and I can go either way anytime and still always enjoy myself

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It’s all good depending on your mood!


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Originally Posted by summit

I have no sympathy for the CEO, who chose mass evil for profit.

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Yeahbut think of how much value he created for the shareholders.

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Originally Posted by frorider

I agree and gently disagree with the above. Yes I think MV could do a better job of recognizing the valid points others have made. But your example of mansplaining is actually similar to a cycle I’ve seen many times in which MV uses a colloquialism or simplified phrase in attempt to sidestep a side conversation that would distract from the main discussion. Then, the weakness or ‘inaccuracy’ of his colloquialism or simple phrase gets pointed out as someone tries to attack his armchair expertise…and MV gets a little exasperated that in order to defend himself he now has to have the very side conversation he wanted us all to avoid.

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It’s not the “colloquialism” it’s that he felt he needed to use it and then explain why he used it.

Arguing that socialized medicine is bad because a surgeon told a patient that they weren’t a candidate for surgery and then got the care they “needed” in the US is really ignorant, even if you have family members that work in healthcare. That happens all the time in the US. Keep looking for a surgeon and you will find one eventually that will lay knife on skin.

We put patients with carcinomatosis on comfort care all the time.

Regurgitating news articles and claiming expertise doesn’t make you an expert.


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Regurgitating news articles and claiming expertise doesn’t make you an expert.


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4 out of 5 experts agree with this ^ in a study I heard about in The Atlantic.