Just thought I would state the obvious- This thread is very useful and a great contribution.
Printable View
Just thought I would state the obvious- This thread is very useful and a great contribution.
This is not an official statement from Red Mtn, BC, but I think they are OK with it as long as you are smart.
Whitewater, BC, not so much when the hill is open, OK when closed AFAIK.
Lake Louise should be the same as Sunshine as it's in the same national park. Don't know about a backcountry lift pass but they have offered shuttle service to the back of the mountain to again get you on your way.
E-mailed Heavenly. They didn't fully answer my question, but the general theme was that hiking is not allowed. It seemed like they were almost suspicious that I was going to trespass and hike for turns anyway.
Kirkwood seems to be ok with it. Don't venture high into the cirque though. You know where not to go. Tour from Carson Pass to chair 4 and then access that chair. They sometimes check tix there though on Holiday periods.
Heavenly is mostly on FS land although they may give you trouble starting in their private proerty at the Cal Lodge. Doesn't matter though, the better way in is from Stagecoach Lodge which is right on the Rim Trail.
Alpine anyone?
Thanks for the awesome thread
I should add that now Kirkwood is closed, the cirque is open.
Here's some I know.
WY -- JHMR -- No skinning -- They have actually prosecuted people for trespassing or some such thing.
Snow King -- Complete opposite. Has official skin track.
Bump for this...
http://www.summitdaily.com/article/2...%22skinners%22
Breckenridge to restrict uphill "skinners"
By Robert Allen
summit daily news
Summit County, CO Colorado
BRECKENRIDGE — Breckenridge Ski Resort officials asked for cooperation from a rugged, growing breed of skiers who prefer hiking to riding ski lifts, as the resort undergoes base-area construction and balances business operations with after-hours access.
Dozens of so-called “skinners” flocked Thursday to Breckenridge Town Hall, where resort officials discussed restrictions, rules and revamped parking plans.
Enthusiasts frequently snowshoe, ski — with the aid of climbing skins — or hike uphill before skiing back down during early morning and late-evening hours.
Inspired by an increasing number of “randonee” races that require skinning uphill and skiing back down — including Breckenridge’s own Imperial Challenge — as well as the delight in being able to “earn the turns,” the uphill crowd can swell to 50 or more people on many weekends.
About 60 attended the session, bringing more life to Town Hall than most town council meetings.
Resort officials are tolerant of the activity, even if they don’t necessarily encourage it.
Lately, however, some skinners have been parking illegally to access the limited, early season terrain and causing other difficulties for ski-area operations.
These days, with large-scale construction going on at the Peak 8 base, parking is the biggest problem.
Rick Sramek, the resort’s vice-president of mountain operations, said that parking in the few employee spaces there won’t be available to the early morning uphill crowd.
“We’re trying to run a business, and we have an obligation to the employees,” he said.
However, the parking area will be available to nighttime skinners who arrive after 5:30 p.m.
Early morning parking will be available at the Gondola South Lot and Beaver Run Lot for free — as long as the vehicles are out by 8:30 a.m. and 8 a.m., respectively.
Skinners will be expected to park in designated areas and will receive placards for identification. The skinner area in the Gondola South Lot will be along the lot’s west side from the southwest corner near First Bank. The east side of the Beaver Run Lot — farthest from the Beaver Run base area — will be designated for skinners.
Sramek said skinner interference with snowcat-winch operations has become an issue lately as well. Three skinners recently were removed from the mountain after ascending a trail marked for winch use.
The cables can reach more than 3,500 feet, creating a dangerous hazard for skiers.
Any time a winch is in use, sandwich boards are placed at the top and bottom of the trail. Strobe lights are used as well, Sramek said.
“Just take a different trail,” he said, adding that nobody is allowed on trails where winches are in use.
Dennis Kuhn, risk manager for the resort, said skinning at Breckenridge — an activity that began with a core of about five people 10 years ago — has expanded significantly.
“It’s to the point where it’s becoming dangerous,” he said.
For 2009-10, early season skinning won’t be allowed at the resort until more runs are open for safety reasons, Kuhn said.
Sramek said that though skinning is a great activity, the number of people doing it has created some concerns.
“We don’t want to see it go away,” he said, adding that other resorts discourage skinning.
Jackson Hole Mountain Resort spokeswoman Lisa Watson said that while skinning is not encouraged, the Wyoming resort is unable to police the activity on the land
leased from the U.S. Forest Service.
“We can’t legally kick someone off our mountain,” she said.
“If someone does it at their own risk, it’s not necessarily our fault” if someone runs into a snow gun or “something happens,” she said.
Breckenridge, too, is on leased Forest Service land.
Ken Kowynia, the agency’s regional winter sports administrator, said uphill access policies vary among resorts.
“Skinning up is part of ski culture, hard to forbid. People have been climbing uphill since before there were any ski lifts,” he said.
Communication is key for the best relations between uphill skiers and resorts, he said.
At Crested Butte, free “uphill passes” are available to ensure anyone skinning is aware of the rules and to which trails they are allowed access.
Crested Butte spokesman Todd Walton said safety and liability are of high concern.
“If you’re going uphill and a snowcat comes around the corner, you’re done,” he said.
At present, Breckenridge allows skinners on green and blue trails.
Ski patrol director Kevin Ahern said there’s a “gray area” regarding whether skinners may access closed runs, for it’s tough to determine closures from the bottom.
“If it’s closed, it’s probably not skiable,” he said.
Town council member and avid skinner Jeffrey Bergeron said the resort’s rules work for him.
“Everyone’s trying to do the best they can,” he said.
Dogs and their droppings made for another conversation topic Thursday, as the resort has been dealing increasingly with fecal specimen left on the freshly groomed slopes.
Kuhn said dogs “are becoming an increasing problem.”
“Carry a shovel, pick up the poop and it won’t be an issue,” he said.
He also said skinners need to keep their dogs under control, as they frequently interfere with operations.
Dogs must be off the slopes by 8:30 a.m., according to the resort’s rules for skinners.
For more information about the rules, call ski patrol at (970) 496-7292.
To find where winch-cat operations are under way, call the hotline at (970) 547-5627.
Robert Allen can be contacted at (970) 668-4628 or rallen@summitdaily.com.
Big Mountain (aka Whitefish Mountain Resort) is on a national forest service lease and is used as such by everybody. You'll see people skinning up all day long.
Another to add, with the bump: Magic Mountain, Vermont, stated policy is " Magic will be offering guided intro tours, limited rentals, and free access to the mountain for anyone willing to “earn their turns”. http://www.magicmtn.com/static_page.php?id=38
In Vermont:
Never had a problem skinning up Smuggler's Notch or Sugarbush before/after hours. Never had a problem skinning any hour of the day/night at Mad River Glen either.
Bolton Valley does not allow it, unless you buy a "backcountry" pass, as they are 100% provate property.
I did skin up Stratton about 10 years ago a few times, but nowadays, I wouldn't bother, the gestapo might get cha.
Hope this helps.
heavenly doesn't want you doing it because its easy to poach the upper lifts which never check for passes especially the north bowl chair that takes very little effort to get to. i've come across patrol when i've been skinning back up to firebreak for quick laps when the gondola is closed or the snow sucks down lower and they don't seem to mind. not sure what they would think of doing it when the lifts aren't open but i've thought many times about poaching the face on powder days by skinning up roundabout in the early morning but i'm sure patrol would be pissed if they were still doing avy work.
Thanks for bumping this thread. Awesome info and legwork.
Whiewater has shut down uphill skinning outside of operating hours now as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by snoboy
I tore my ACL and meniscus last season while taking evasive action to avoid two people skinning side by side up a narrow cat track. Came around a blind corner and they were right in front of me, taking up the entire fucking trail.
Be careful where you skin, you cheap-ass hippie fucks.
Worth a bump again.
Never in my life would I have thought I would be branded as a cheap ass hippy fuck...whats wrong with getting in first turns??
As of 11/23, I can know that Breck and Keystone are fine with pre-lift operation hours as well as after the lifts close. If you go past Vista House (Breck) you have to be back down to VH by 8:15am. A Basin and Copper not allowing it yet due to racers on the mountain.
All current information for uphill access is available via Ski Patrol, with their main goal being safety...
I know Sunlight in Colorado is tolerant of uphill traffic. Really the only thing they do not want is people sledding and dogs. People skinning have shot themselves in the foot by bringing their dogs and not cleaning up after them.
Really you just have to be smart about skinning at a resort or the privilege can disappear. Just because they are closed does not mean things are not going on on the mountain. For some reason skinners have the great ability to go right on the edge of the groomed and ungroomed snow where the cat is making the next pass. I can't tell you how many times I have had to stop and wait for a skinner to get out of the way so I could continue grooming. The whole time getting a look from the skinner like am in their way. I have also almost taken skinners out at the bottom of a steep face as the cat slide down it.
So anyone going uphill, take a minute when you get to the resort and plan a route to impact the people trying to work the least amount you can. Just today I saw two groups going up hill go right up the trail the cat was working on. There are plenty of trails at a resort that you do not have to share with the cats.
When I worked at Stowe they did not allow uphill traffic while the lifts were spinning but before and after were ok. I for one never understood the appeal of skinning up a crowded groomer but that's just me.
I have never skied there, but somehow find this a little hard to believe. I mean I know all patrollers are dicks and Jongs and can't ski and all -- but I have heard that there are at least one or two who grew-up in ski towns who at one time were probably the biggest offenders of common sense, decency, and ski area rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by backcountryben
I also heard that sometimes mountain safety and area management holds much more sway over what opens and what doesn't as well as what the rules are at most ski areas. Something also makes me think that many times, if you don't walk into the situation thinking all patrollers are dicks who can't ski, they can actually be some decent folks who actually want you to have a good time at the resort where they are patrolling.
Maybe I am wrong -- this skiing stuff is still kind of new to me, and I can see where a big dollar, low work job like ski patrolling is going to attract a lot of dicks who are only in it for the money, respect, and opportunity to impress their authority on clients -- they don't really like to ski or see you have a good time skiing.
Lookout on the ID/MT border will chase you off even though it is N.F. land, the contract administrator Mike Leverick IPNF Cd'A River Ranger District (208) 769-3013 knows about it but has not stopped Lookout from chasing hikers off.
I end up hiking through the trees on days the hill is closed avoiding the lodge area and staff. :the_finge
Actually, Meadows, no. Just asked this weekend, the policy is "no uphill traffic" though that does not apply to the additional 1500' of hiking to the top of upper heather. This is direct from ski patrol, but it was a chick who i was blatantly hitting on; if that makes a diff.Quote:
Originally Posted by ptavv
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikR12
if you mentioned your "skin flute" I think I see what the problem was...
That sounds about right. We got stopped last year from even skinning in the Heather cat track when heading towards Newton Canyon. We've also been stopped on the way out after hours. Patrol thought we had poached Heather after they closed it. In my experience, they seem to act like you have no idea what you're doing.Quote:
Actually, Meadows, no. Just asked this weekend, the policy is "no uphill traffic" though that does not apply to the additional 1500' of hiking to the top of upper heather. This is direct from ski patrol, but it was a chick who i was blatantly hitting on; if that makes a diff.
The "rule" for Aspen Highlands is a little misleading. I have skinned up that hill
many times and continued to do laps in the bowl all day or skied off the Maroon Creek side. The "rule" that I know of is that you must be past the Merry-go-round by 9am. Once you are past it you can do laps on the upper mountain.
Did they change this?
Are you saying the desire to skin up a crowded ski hill during operating hours is indicative of faulty or sub par mental capacity?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven S. Dallas
Because it most certainly is.
"I bought skins and AT gear so that I can hike around a bunch of other people and ski chopped up snow."
It does have a certain head injury ring to it.
Didn't some guy just get arrested for doing this at A Basin? Maybe the thread needs a 2010 version?
"no uphill skin flute traffic" is i think what she said, now that i think of itQuote:
Originally Posted by jfost
In certain, well most instances yes... but in the case that say, a summit lift is closed due to wind, or there is a 'bonus' vert hiking trail... skinning up is perfectly logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ola
From: "Burkley, Richard E." <rburkley@aspensnowmass.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:34:27 -0600
Subject: FW: Contact Us Form
[bedtime4bonzos]:
All of our mountians allow uphilling, both before operating hours and during (except Aspen). At Highlands you are not allowed above the Merry Go Round after 9:00am. On Aspen, you need to be above Ajax Express by 8:00am. At Buttermilk we ask that you use the designated route on the main face. No restrictions at Snowmass.
As always, we ask that you stay visible and on the side of the trail if that is the safest place. Basically, act as if you're invisible, since uphilling is an unheard of concept to many of our guests.
Once on the hill you are welcome to ski anywhere on AT gear, however you aren't allowed to ride the lifts.
Hope this helps,
Rich Burkley
Vice President, Mountain Operations
Aspen Skiing Company
Rich is pretty much "the Man". You might send him an e mail, because I know people skin the bowl all the time and that's above Merry go Round?
Alyeska's on NF land and they prohibit uphill traffic during ski season.
Sounds like our problem the Mtn is restricting access beyond their legal limits and the FS administrator is not willing to dealing with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chugachjed
Wyoming: Snow King.
Yeah I still make fun of you fruitcakes putting skins on while I walk by with my skis on my shoulder to the exact same place. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by QuikR12
I realize other mountains may be different but I'm not going to admit that at this point.
Let's get some nuevo mexicano on that list...
I know Ski Santa Fe allows uphill traffic at all times. They pretty much have an open boundary policy. You can cross in/out of bounds as much as you want. I don't know if they have an official policy, but if you are being smart no one will hassle you.
A front desk employee at Monarch stated that they do not allow skinning inbounds at the resort.
better update the list for oregon...Bachelor no longer allows and Hoodoo is not cool with it either.
Canada - Tremblant - not sure on official policy but, the resort is operated on Provincial park land. I'm my experience I have seen people uphilling, snowshoeing, hiking etc in winter. when we did it we just got harassed by the patrollers a bit, mainly because we had snowboards and they seemed to think we were trying to poach their crappy snowpark. as long as you explain to them where you are headed ('out into the woods' is a good one!) they leave you alone.
Just want to confirm that uphill traffic IS allowed on Wolf Creek. Durango Herald ran an article about it a few weeks back, but I can't seem to find it online.