In-Resort Touring with or without a Lift Pass

[Dickeymotto]

What about Utah resorts?

[rvski]

Wolf Creek, co is also forest service land, no restrictions

[bedtime4bonzos]

Telemike - Very cool to meet you (if you count passing by you at the lot near Uneva). Good snow indeed. Great day for it!

Dickeymotto - I sent the standard email to Alta, Brighton, Park City, and Snowbird to make up for the deficit on the Utah front.

If you like, feel free to send that email or some variant out to wherever. Let us know who you've sent to though so nobody gets pestered by a bunch of the same questions. I'll post the responses up top whenever I can. So far, most resorts have been quite fast about responding.

A random pic from our day near Uneva (pechelman with the point):

[homerjay]

Wolf Creek, co is also forest service land, no restrictions

I thought uphill travel was prohibited since you access it from private land?? I remember seeing signs at the Alberta lift.

[pechelman]

hah
didnt think you snapped a picture when I was doing "the point"

question here about copper and their policy
How does touring around the Copper resort area, which is National forest land, violate the Colorado skier safety whatever?
I mean if I were to be skinning there in the now off season, and some patroller stopped me and asked me nicely, Id probably leave cause Im that way.
But really, what jurisdiction do they have to patrol Federal Public land?

[danhikeski]

I skinned up Gunstock this winter when I couldn't get a ticket, actually, just didn't want to use my voucher (thanks Tuckerman, I still owe you for those). I was stopped by a patrol, and asked not to go to the summit, only because they were grooming above where she stopped me.

[Lone Star]

excellent post. it's interesting to see the variety of rules/policies within Colorado alone. note how the Intrawest ski areas are the most restrictive

Off Season: We close the mountain to all guest access. ...

Totally effin' lame.

[Squirrel99]

Mt Hood Meadows, Timberline, and Ski Bowl in Oregon all allow up hill touring whenever (it's FS land). Crystal and Alpental are the same deal. I think Stevens is as well.

Obviously you can't go into closed areas within the resort boundaries, even if you skin up. Blah blah.

FYI, Crystal Patrol is "not cool with this" according to a response Snoslut rec'd while ascending. I believe they are fine with uphill touring provided you are accessing via the approach to Silver Basin or using alternate routes that access the areas to the looker's left of Silver Basin (don't know the names- perhaps Buster can help out).

[taynton]

it's interesting to see the variety of rules/policies within Colorado alone. note how the Intrawest ski areas are the most restrictive

North of the border, Intrawest is among the least restrictive (generally, I dont know thier uphill policy). A friend got yelled at pre-season at Panorama, BC for touring uphill, but mostly because he went over some snowmaking equiptment that was partially burried. There were some nice looking TR's of preseason touring on Whistler and Blackcomb earlier this year.

[backcountryben]

I skinned up Gunstock this winter when I couldn't get a ticket, actually, just didn't want to use my voucher (thanks Tuckerman, I still owe you for those). I was stopped by a patrol, and asked not to go to the summit, only because they were grooming above where she stopped me.

doesn't surprise me... I grew up skiing gunstock until I realized how much better cannon was (and was able to convince my parents of that fact) and remember at least a good portion of the patrol as complete dicks (and bad skiers). I remember once after a big storm (for gunstock) they still had hotshot (the one semi-fun trail on the mountain) closed. I asked why, and they said "no one on the patrol wanted to ski it and they couldn't open it until it had been skied by a patroller"

[ericchile]

What about Utah resorts?

Yea kind of funny to leave Utah out....

[huck4bucks]

I realize Canada isn't a state...

Don't worry, they're the 4th prong on the Axis of Evil. We'll annex them soon enough.

Great info though. Quality post, sir.

[stihletto]

and also thinking of doing some sunset 22ft. pipe skiing, if i can find a day when the pipe dragon is not in there at sunset.

[stihletto]

And oh yeah, i just wanted to mention that something like a week ago, before the end of wp's season, someone got busted for trespassing by security and winter park police was called in for a guy skiing down without a pass. It was about 5:30pm. I guess security at wp doesn't know winter park's own rules. Imagine that.

Lonestar and i both got reprimanded by ski patrol there for skiing the day before opening once. Then the patroller said it was ok, but when the resort was open, we wouldn't be able to ski that run because it would be closed. Whew! got away with that one.

[fullers2oh]

regarding mammoth - i understand what hutash said but isnt mammoth on NF land? i didnt think they had the right to prevent access...maybe because it is leased? oh well im not about to go skin up mammoth anyway, just curious.

[FREESKIER_FIVE-0]

Just thought I would state the obvious- This thread is very useful and a great contribution.

[snoboy]

This is not an official statement from Red Mtn, BC, but I think they are OK with it as long as you are smart.

Whitewater, BC, not so much when the hill is open, OK when closed AFAIK.

[L7]

Lake Louise should be the same as Sunshine as it's in the same national park. Don't know about a backcountry lift pass but they have offered shuttle service to the back of the mountain to again get you on your way.

[jepilot]

E-mailed Heavenly. They didn't fully answer my question, but the general theme was that hiking is not allowed. It seemed like they were almost suspicious that I was going to trespass and hike for turns anyway.

[powdork]

Kirkwood seems to be ok with it. Don't venture high into the cirque though. You know where not to go. Tour from Carson Pass to chair 4 and then access that chair. They sometimes check tix there though on Holiday periods.
Heavenly is mostly on FS land although they may give you trouble starting in their private proerty at the Cal Lodge. Doesn't matter though, the better way in is from Stagecoach Lodge which is right on the Rim Trail.

[Razorslug]

Alpine anyone?
Thanks for the awesome thread

[powdork]

I should add that now Kirkwood is closed, the cirque is open.

[Bart T]

Here's some I know.

WY -- JHMR -- No skinning -- They have actually prosecuted people for trespassing or some such thing.
Snow King -- Complete opposite. Has official skin track.

[LightRanger]

Bump for this...

http://www.summitdaily.com/article/2...%22skinners%22


Breckenridge to restrict uphill "skinners"

By Robert Allen
summit daily news
Summit County, CO Colorado

BRECKENRIDGE — Breckenridge Ski Resort officials asked for cooperation from a rugged, growing breed of skiers who prefer hiking to riding ski lifts, as the resort undergoes base-area construction and balances business operations with after-hours access.

Dozens of so-called “skinners” flocked Thursday to Breckenridge Town Hall, where resort officials discussed restrictions, rules and revamped parking plans.

Enthusiasts frequently snowshoe, ski — with the aid of climbing skins — or hike uphill before skiing back down during early morning and late-evening hours.

Inspired by an increasing number of “randonee” races that require skinning uphill and skiing back down — including Breckenridge’s own Imperial Challenge — as well as the delight in being able to “earn the turns,” the uphill crowd can swell to 50 or more people on many weekends.

About 60 attended the session, bringing more life to Town Hall than most town council meetings.

Resort officials are tolerant of the activity, even if they don’t necessarily encourage it.

Lately, however, some skinners have been parking illegally to access the limited, early season terrain and causing other difficulties for ski-area operations.

These days, with large-scale construction going on at the Peak 8 base, parking is the biggest problem.

Rick Sramek, the resort’s vice-president of mountain operations, said that parking in the few employee spaces there won’t be available to the early morning uphill crowd.

“We’re trying to run a business, and we have an obligation to the employees,” he said.

However, the parking area will be available to nighttime skinners who arrive after 5:30 p.m.

Early morning parking will be available at the Gondola South Lot and Beaver Run Lot for free — as long as the vehicles are out by 8:30 a.m. and 8 a.m., respectively.

Skinners will be expected to park in designated areas and will receive placards for identification. The skinner area in the Gondola South Lot will be along the lot’s west side from the southwest corner near First Bank. The east side of the Beaver Run Lot — farthest from the Beaver Run base area — will be designated for skinners.

Sramek said skinner interference with snowcat-winch operations has become an issue lately as well. Three skinners recently were removed from the mountain after ascending a trail marked for winch use.

The cables can reach more than 3,500 feet, creating a dangerous hazard for skiers.

Any time a winch is in use, sandwich boards are placed at the top and bottom of the trail. Strobe lights are used as well, Sramek said.

“Just take a different trail,” he said, adding that nobody is allowed on trails where winches are in use.

Dennis Kuhn, risk manager for the resort, said skinning at Breckenridge — an activity that began with a core of about five people 10 years ago — has expanded significantly.

“It’s to the point where it’s becoming dangerous,” he said.

For 2009-10, early season skinning won’t be allowed at the resort until more runs are open for safety reasons, Kuhn said.

Sramek said that though skinning is a great activity, the number of people doing it has created some concerns.

“We don’t want to see it go away,” he said, adding that other resorts discourage skinning.

Jackson Hole Mountain Resort spokeswoman Lisa Watson said that while skinning is not encouraged, the Wyoming resort is unable to police the activity on the land
leased from the U.S. Forest Service.

“We can’t legally kick someone off our mountain,” she said.

“If someone does it at their own risk, it’s not necessarily our fault” if someone runs into a snow gun or “something happens,” she said.

Breckenridge, too, is on leased Forest Service land.

Ken Kowynia, the agency’s regional winter sports administrator, said uphill access policies vary among resorts.

“Skinning up is part of ski culture, hard to forbid. People have been climbing uphill since before there were any ski lifts,” he said.

Communication is key for the best relations between uphill skiers and resorts, he said.

At Crested Butte, free “uphill passes” are available to ensure anyone skinning is aware of the rules and to which trails they are allowed access.

Crested Butte spokesman Todd Walton said safety and liability are of high concern.

“If you’re going uphill and a snowcat comes around the corner, you’re done,” he said.

At present, Breckenridge allows skinners on green and blue trails.

Ski patrol director Kevin Ahern said there’s a “gray area” regarding whether skinners may access closed runs, for it’s tough to determine closures from the bottom.
“If it’s closed, it’s probably not skiable,” he said.

Town council member and avid skinner Jeffrey Bergeron said the resort’s rules work for him.

“Everyone’s trying to do the best they can,” he said.

Dogs and their droppings made for another conversation topic Thursday, as the resort has been dealing increasingly with fecal specimen left on the freshly groomed slopes.

Kuhn said dogs “are becoming an increasing problem.”

“Carry a shovel, pick up the poop and it won’t be an issue,” he said.

He also said skinners need to keep their dogs under control, as they frequently interfere with operations.

Dogs must be off the slopes by 8:30 a.m., according to the resort’s rules for skinners.
For more information about the rules, call ski patrol at (970) 496-7292.

To find where winch-cat operations are under way, call the hotline at (970) 547-5627.

Robert Allen can be contacted at (970) 668-4628 or rallen@summitdaily.com.

[AsheanMT]

Big Mountain (aka Whitefish Mountain Resort) is on a national forest service lease and is used as such by everybody. You'll see people skinning up all day long.