Sunday Evening Question: Sticks and Stones...

in principle, fuck PCness. but as I have gotten farther away from Texas, I realize things that had no mean or hateful connotation (in my naive? perception, perhaps) can be hurtful to folks who are from outside that sphere. even if it's not meant that way. I remember a particular instance when I usedq the phrase "indian giver" about half a dozen years ago and got a tongue lashing that quite honestly, shocked me. To me, it was nothing but a colloquialism, but it was taken as a slur and the reaction reflected that. Without really knowing how people of other locations and cultures perceive foreign dialects and manners of speaking, it's difficult to even know HOW or WHEN or with WHAT speech to be sensitive.

Most people could probably stand to be more sensitive.

But, most people could probably stand to grow a thicker skin.

ANyone see the recent South Park? Pretty funny- and relevant to this discussion.

powder11: how could I use the term niggardly in normal conversation and not sound fake? Well excuse me but some of us have working vocabularies and are not afraid to bust out the word that best convey a meaning without like, you know like saying he was all like not uhhhh like generous and shit like you know?

And yes B11, I do know what the word niggardly means and used it as a prime example of PC run amok, when the PC vigilantes in the end extract their pound of flesh in the complete absence of any legitimate claim to being offended and rather as a way to simply cover their complete ignorance and disregard for words and their meanings.

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Originally Posted by Lone Star

in principle, fuck PCness. but as I have gotten farther away from Texas, I realize things that had no mean or hateful connotation (in my naive? perception, perhaps) can be hurtful to folks who are from outside that sphere. even if it's not meant that way.

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And most of Texas is the middle of bumfuck nowhere.
Ever swing towards Alpine? I've heard people openly comment that "that was the first n****r they've seen in a month!" Man thats mightly cultured of them.

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I remember a particular instance when I usedq the phrase "indian giver" about half a dozen years ago and got a tongue lashing that quite honestly, shocked me. To me, it was nothing but a colloquialism, but it was taken as a slur and the reaction reflected that.

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If you were saying it in jest, that was a pretty extreme response.

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Without really knowing how people of other locations and cultures perceive foreign dialects and manners of speaking, it's difficult to even know HOW or WHEN or with WHAT speech to be sensitive.

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So just don't use anything that could be construed as being "un-PC" when you're not in a familiar location? I mean its not that hard.

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Most people could probably stand to be more sensitive.

But, most people could probably stand to grow a thicker skin.

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The beauty of this being, people can do what they want, they can be offended by what they want.

Queue PC BS: Maybe if people weren't such assholes or ignorant towards other people this world might be a slightly better place.

I have decided that everyone who calls me a "Cracker" gets called a "Spearchucker." There was a guy who asked me "What the fuck are you looking at, Cracker?" while I was walking through a park here in DC. He was just trying to break bad in front of his friends. I paused, smiled, and answered "Cracker? Just one funny looking Spearchucker, I guess." They stared at me for a moment, started cracking up, then offered me a beer. (The reason why I was looking at them in the first place, wondering if they were going to get busted for an open container in a 1 block square park in the middle of town at noon on a Wednesday.)

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Originally Posted by Tippster

I have decided that everyone who calls me a "Cracker" gets called a "Spearchucker."

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Ok cracker.

Is the word "douchebag" offensive? Because this is a real douchebag thread.

Everyone who really like racism raise your hand. Everyone who enjoys bigotry and genuinely wants their children to grow up in a world where ancestry is how people are measured please stand up.

Nobody? Well Then I guess we are all on the same team.

The question now becomes: Is this “pc experiment” that we are trying working? Is it getting us closer to our goal of a more humane, peaceful, harmonious world, or is it possible that like the “war on terror” it is actually exacerbating the problem it seeks to solve.

I don’t claim to have done an exhaustive study but in my limited experience the latter is true. I would love to hear others experience with this, because if I am wrong, and it is working then it’s surely worth any inconvenience it causes.

One last thought is that history has shown that the worst way to cure a social ill is to push those who exhibit it to the fringes of society. Maybe it’s time we try something else.

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Originally Posted by bklyn

Some people outside these groups seem to want to reserve the right to use these words, whether or not they may be offensive to others. Is this automatically evidence of racism/sexism/homophobia? How else would you categorize it?

If Pakistani people do not want to be called Paki, for example, or X people do not want to be called Y, why is that seen as a burden? No sarcasm intended, only genuine curiosity.

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You know, I think Lemon Boy hit the nail on the head. There are really only two motives for people to use offensive words: biggotry or ignorance.

If one doesn't know that a word is offensive and uses it, you can typically tell by the way a person says it which way he is leaning. For my example, one of my college roommates explained to me that "Oriental" might be construed as biggoted by some "Asians" because it was a word that was put upon the people of the "Far East" by Europeans (which doesn't explain why "Asian" is okay, but I digress). I had no idea until he told me, and was appreciative of it. That said, it isn't a very charged word and even knowing that, my girlfriend who *is* Asian prefers the term Oriental. Go figure.

If one knows that a word is offensive and uses it... well, what other explanation can there be?

Me, being a very curious individual... often hedge my conversations carefully when being inquisitive. I like to learn about other cultures and other people different than me and, thankfully, have that opportunity now where I live and work. I have many friends of wide ranging backgrounds - Middle Eastern, Indian, Asian (of multiple countries), West African, East African, etc.. and when I read something interesting, or just have a question, they know where I'm coming from and help me learn. But at one point, I was much more naive, and ended up insulting people when I didn't intend it. It's been live and learn and I got a late start growing up in that rural and isolated corner of New Jersey (in all seriousness).

In matters of speech i would have to say that pc is a simple form of censorship and that what truly matters in speaking and conversation is not the word or words, but rather one's manner, attitude, and tone of voice, as an example a person could say "good morning Mr. Jones" in such a way that it actually means "fuck you."

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Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster

Ok cracker.

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OK what, Spearchucker?

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Originally Posted by Tippster

(The reason why I was looking at them in the first place, wondering if they were going to get busted for an open container in a 1 block square park in the middle of town at noon on a Wednesday.)

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McPherson Square Park? I thought beer was required there!

I was at a concert at the Kennedy Center, one of those Millenium Stage free concerts, had some rippin Mississippi blues singer/guitarist. Off to the side was a guy 'signing' the words. Now, I'm all for accomodating disabilities, but...deaf people at a concert??

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Originally Posted by shmerham

Being the anxious type, I the only thing I find burdensome is uncertainty.

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Thanks, this is an angle I had not really considered.

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Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

It is impossible to please everyone. There are people who would seek to acquire power through being offended.

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I'm very interested in your POV on this, right now I don't quite understand (can't see through the filter of my own POV) what you're saying. Could you write more on it, or give an example?

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Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

Personally, it is an attempt to keep the language from being hijacked by a small group of people. Words have meaning and we, as a society, can't allow them to be hijacked and changed every five years because some small group is now offended by the current usage.

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I think here you may be talking about policeman vs police officer? Those arguments are outside the scope of my question. I'm talking about more obviously offensive terms.

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Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

For example, what are you? Are you a Black girl? African-American? A Negro? What would you call yourself?

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All of those things are somewhat correct. My ancestry is diverse, yet I am visually identifiable as "black". I don't find it offensive to be described that way, as it is accurate as it can be considering no one is as white or as black as the actual colors. I have a long family history in the Caribbean, so I see my national (outside of the USA) roots in Barbados and Suriname. Africa is a bit far removed for me and non specific enough for me not to relate to it in the same way, but again I don't find it offensive, some of my ancestors came from there. My neighbor is a white South African, with roots in Cape Town and born here, he is technically more "African American" than I am. This term will also probably die out due to it's inherent ambiguity and inaccuracy since most African Americans are of multi-racial decent. I would say Bajan before African in the same way that someone else would say Italian or Irish before European. I fit the phenotype of "Negro", technically an accurate term but so archaic that it makes me wonder why someone would use that or "colored" in common speech today. The same with niggardly, which has so many other synonyms that have no other connotation, it's use is like some bad double entendre gone wrong in the present day.

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Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

If I am around a group of people and they have the quiet strength to look me in the eye and tell me that the term that I just used is offensive to them(with no animosity or condescension), then tell me the term they prefer, I will respect them for it and attempt to remember their preference in the future. But that is normally not what happens.

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I doubt anyone would get a balanced response after they've said something offensive. Are you thinking of a one on one conversation with someone you know well? Offensive comments from strangers are often met with offensive responses.

Thanks for your responses & thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Parvo Pup

I would call her "Tracy".

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;)

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Originally Posted by Phill

Fuck political correctness in the ass. I say what I want bitches. If I cencor myself to protected the "delicate" feelings of others all I am doing is patronizing them which is worse IMO. Besides words are only as offensive as the intent behind them.

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You are very young.

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Originally Posted by WhiteLight

I'll take a swing at the question.

A few possible answers...

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All very interesting points, thanks.

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Originally Posted by bklyn

Could you write more on it, or give an example?

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The Rev. Al Sharpton comes to mind... ;)

I do get the sense of there being somewhat of a Cottage Industry benefitting from the maintenance of ethnic division. It seems to be cloaked in "Pride," but the end effect is still a form of exclusion - ie NOT Black or NOT Christian or NOT Latino or NOT Irish. Your thoughts?

wow, so I wish I had the time to write up something about symbolic violence. quick google search didn't turn up anything easily quotable

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Originally Posted by Phill

Fuck political correctness in the ass. I say what I want bitches. If I cencor myself to protected the "delicate" feelings of others all I am doing is patronizing them which is worse IMO.

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So you routinely go up to people and say "man, you're a fat fucking slob!" You know, speak your mind and all. No reason to sugar coat things.