Reverse Camber v. Reverse Sidecut v. Pintail v. Traditional

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by philippeR

I've never skied a spatula, or a spatula-like shape, but it looks like they would suck on your average scrapped steep couloir, non ? They need at least a few inches of soft snow to perform the way they are supposed to. And we did lack those few inches quite frequently in yurp this year.
Or am I missing something ?
(That, and I love carving a nice groomer...)

---

Phil,

The Spats work surprisingly well as couloir skis. For a start there is no tip and tail hangup whatsoever and they pivot really quick. It's nice not to feel that bouncing, suspended feeling that traditional skis often put you in on tight stuff. Even on harder snow they feel OK because you have that constant contact underfoot.

A couple of shots from last year in Alpe d'Huez...

http://www.biglines.com/photosv2/200...ines_56779.jpg
Couloir Fleur

http://www.biglines.com/photosv2/200...ines_56785.jpg
Couloir de Cheminee de Mascle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by philippeR

I've never skied a spatula, or a spatula-like shape, but it looks like they would suck on your average scrapped steep couloir, non ? They need at least a few inches of soft snow to perform the way they are supposed to. And we did lack those few inches quite frequently in yurp this year.
Or am I missing something ?
(That, and I love carving a nice groomer...)

---

there's the right time for a scrapped steep couloir, and the right time for powder. few cm or one meter of powder, then reverse camber etc skis have a clearcut advantage over anything else. This s@itty current winter powder days were not so many, but there have been, and most likely there will be in future winters.

I hear you Verbier. As a pow-only ski, a specialized tool, I perfectly see the point of a spatula.
I was reacting to Roo's posts, saying he had no use for anything not "reverse / reverse", but for a touring set up. ie, a spat - like ski could be his main ride for europe.
Roo, thanks for the answer. I tend to like a idea of a long edge under my foot on such terrain... I guess I'll have to demo and find how it feels, as I've actualy no idea of what I'm talking about ! But those ski are still very uncommon around here.

(Great 2nd photo... Really an average skier:rolleyes2 )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by philippeR

I hear you Verbier. As a pow-only ski, a specialized tool, I perfectly see the point of a spatula.
I was reacting to Roo's posts, saying he had no use for anything not "reverse / reverse", but for a touring set up. ie, a spat - like ski could be his main ride for europe.
Roo, thanks for the answer. I tend to like a idea of a long edge under my foot on such terrain... I guess I'll have to demo and find how it feels, as I've actualy no idea of what I'm talking about ! But those ski are still very uncommon around here.

(Great 2nd photo... Really an average skier:rolleyes2 )

---

understood!!

go to ski service in verbier. though they're not the most sympa staff in the world, they have spatula, pontoons and armada ARG for rent. said that, I think lotus 138 are more fun that those.... :the_finge albeit I am not a big scandi guy and am not sure to be always happy to have a 192 ski under my foot in very tight, steep couloirs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phill

A lot of times around where I ski there can be an Icy rain crust over the entire mountain while it is puking snow. Throw in a little cross wind and you have places that are completely bottomless and places that are gnar gnar ice crust. For example one day a couple of weeks ago I was skiing in a bowl (chief) at my home mountain (stevens pass) and it was dumping snow and there was howling wind. In order to get into the bowl, which had been loaded to the point of awesomeness, you had to traverse across the top of a long and very steep run where the winds where easily 60+ MPH, the traverse was blue ice and I know from experience that a fall on that run can easily equal an ~800 ft vert fall ending in a clump of trees known as the femur trees. The skiing in the bowl was amazing and I wished for a fatter ski but on the way over I really aprecieted having 1.9m of metal edge to stand on. And if for some reason the bowl was roped off and I had to ski down the run I would definently have been scared on a ski like a spat

---

Uh......yeah dude. Stowe isn't exactly the easiest place to get around to get to the goods. Ice, super tight trees, chutes, etc, etc, etc. That's why I'm not on spats, or some other wacky one trick pony. The big daddies are pretty decent on just about everything, and can be taken anywhere, for a 125mm waist powder ski.....that means I can take them out much more often, because I won't struggle on various conditions like someone with spats would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hop

Edit to add that you should seriously just get a pair of Pontoons. You can carve on them. If you don't believe me ask lph.

---

Umm No.... I dont think there is anything the Pontoons would do that the Sumos wont do just fine. If that statement doesnt start a whole new line of argument, I dont know what will. And after all, "You did come here for an argument" :biggrin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Professor

Umm No.... I dont think there is anything the Pontoons would do that the Sumos wont do just fine. If that statement doesnt start a whole new line of argument, I dont know what will. And after all, "You did come here for an argument" :biggrin:

---

got to sorta disagree. floatation is totally different. The way 'toons float, BTW, is really different from spats-shaped sticks like ARG and lotus 138. 'Toons big shovel and small tail generates a different floatation (which I dedided to like less than that of lotus 138, but this is a different story).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Professor

Umm No.... I dont think there is anything the Pontoons would do that the Sumos wont do just fine. If that statement doesnt start a whole new line of argument, I dont know what will. And after all, "You did come here for an argument" :biggrin:

---

i think here's how Im reading what you want

Powder, all you want is surface area. Honestly it sounds like thats all you need since you sound like a very strong skier and can make up for any deficiency any ski might have in powder.

On hardpack, its either one of two things. You're either too powerful (or possibly impatient?) for a tapered tail design and instead of carving it clean, you end up skidding it out. Maybe these pintails require a bit more gentle finesse to carve them? (pure conjecture because Ive never been on one)
Im sure the tele turn comes into play here somewhere as well.
Or 2, quite simply, theres just not enough sidecut to carve.
probably a combination of the two i guess.

good thread indeed

this is the dumbest thread I have ever read.

you guys are arguing back and forth about nothing. whatever ski you like, ski it. fuck.....it's that simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pechelman

i think here's how Im reading what you want

Powder, all you want is surface area. Honestly it sounds like thats all you need since you sound like a very strong skier and can make up for any deficiency any ski might have in powder.

On hardpack, its either one of two things. You're either too powerful (or possibly impatient?) for a tapered tail design and instead of carving it clean, you end up skidding it out. Maybe these pintails require a bit more gentle finesse to carve them? (pure conjecture because Ive never been on one)
Im sure the tele turn comes into play here somewhere as well.
Or 2, quite simply, theres just not enough sidecut to carve.
probably a combination of the two i guess.

good thread indeed

---

I think you hit it on two points. The surface area on a Sumo is loads of float. Honestly I cant imagine more float being necessary even in funky snow. Also having the tail sink a bit more to assist the shovel was not a feeling I cared for on the EHP and 120. As for the tapered design, the turn radius is so big that it doesnt come across the fall line, so the carved turn is unusable unless it is really wide open. But as I said in another thread, the pintail design of the EHP and the 120 will carve, but it is a fight to make it carve clean and not skid and just not a feeling I liked. As for the tele turn, that is really a non factor, since I dont make too many tele turns these days (but that is a whole different thread/argument) :biggrin:

Edit: Just to address the thread above... if this is the dumbest thread you have ever read, you obviously didnt look very hard.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TahoePowShredder

this is the dumbest thread I have ever read.

you guys are arguing back and forth about nothing. whatever ski you like, ski it. fuck.....it's that simple.

---

Says the JONG with 33 posts. How many posts have you read, cause I've seen way dumber! Tell us how it's done, BRAH!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jiehkevarri

Spray paint? Contact paper? etc.

I've actually given up hoping for cleaner ski graphics (ok, Dp skis are great but so are their price). And I've been thinking that a bottle of black spray paint would just do it. Even if it looks totally fugly that way too, atleast it would be kind of a statement...:D (think Hellbents painted totally black!)

---

I hear ya.

Volkl's graphics used to be super-clean (how hot was the buddha line?). I miss those graphics.

The sumo graphic is pretty fucking clean. Too bad it comes with a leather topshit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pechelman

Ive already been thinking of this and ways to attach it and make it easily adjustable. Just need some time where Im not busy with everything else.
Oh yea, and I also need to work on the binding plate deal, although it might be kinda pointless with the duke and whatever BD's supertopsecret binding is in the future.

Im also combining the adjustable rocker idea with a ballast idea that I think would be especially useful with varying conditions.

---

What would the leverage ratio for some sort of flip to tension a wire/ rocker the tips and tails be? I feel like it would be quite large and difficult to get a noticible effect without an intricate system.

What if you started with a rockered ski and added different rods ala the rossi multix (or something) system. They could press the tip and tail back into flat or even positive camber. This would also stiffen the ski for use on hard snow. Remove the rods and voila, you're back to the reverse camber.

http://www.techsupportforskiers.com/..._rossignol.htm
top review

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lemon boy

The sumo graphic is pretty fucking clean. Too bad it comes with a leather topshit.

---

no more in the sumos I've seen this winter