'Rona back in the hizzy

I’m still covid-free as far as I’m aware. I’ll be getting novavax again this year, likely in a few weeks prior to a large week-long work meeting that’ll involve lots of travel. Last year, I had no noticeable side effects to the novavax, while was laid up in bed for several days from the mRNA vaxes.

Topol seems to summarize the reason with some links to clinical(?) rationale, “Our best defense against Long Covid is not to get Covid. Our second best known defense is to be vaccinated. The better the vaccine, the less Long Covid risk.” https://erictopol.substack.com/p/the...le-covid-virus

I have a 1 year old in daycare. I'm sick every other week, sometimes every week. My immune system is peaking.

I will absolutely get boosted when the time comes, along with the flu shot.

Underwhelming, certainly for most here who are not in the over 65 category. Less than 10 hospitalizations per 100,000 for < 65yrs old. So I wonder what the NNT (number needed to treat) is for the vaccine at this point to have clinically meaningful benefit? Would be curious, but hard to find recent studies.

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Originally Posted by Danno

I assume you also don't get the flu shot? As a virus that generally causes flu like symptoms, well, flu like symptoms suck. So if taking a shot in the Fall can hopefully reduce the severity of those flu-like symptoms, sign me up!

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So I had never had a flu shot ("I've had the flu before, it's not so bad!") until after 2012 when there had been this particularly bad strain going around (I think it was 2012, somewhere around there--lots of old people were dying from the flu). I got knocked on my ass in a way that I never had before--like 48 hours of semi-conscious delirium, except I didn't have enough energy to act delirious. No clue if it was day or night, thought I might have to be hospitalized but a doc friend told me they might not be able to do much for me. I really started to wonder if I might die (and was so out of it that I kind of didn't care).

That's what made me decide to get flu shots. I really don't want to have that kind of experience again. My understanding is the covid boosters give you a pretty good shot for at least four or five months of having relatively minimal symptoms if you get infected (and especially early on you have good odds of resisting an infection). Seemed to have worked for me based on my one time catching covid almost two years ago--felt like a bad head cold and until I tested I really didn't think it was covid. I tend to think that having had all the available shots helped make it so mild, so yeah, I'm planning on getting the new one (which I also understand is considered a good match for what's going around right now).

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

I’m still covid-free as far as I’m aware. I’ll be getting novavax again this year, likely in a few weeks prior to a large week-long work meeting that’ll involve lots of travel. Last year, I had no noticeable side effects to the novavax, while was laid up in bed for several days from the mRNA vaxes.

Topol seems to summarize the reason with some links to clinical(?) rationale, “Our best defense against Long Covid is not to get Covid. Our second best known defense is to be vaccinated. The better the vaccine, the less Long Covid risk.” https://erictopol.substack.com/p/the...le-covid-virus

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Pretty decent data suggests the rates of Long Covid have fallen off a cliff with the new variants vs any variant before Omicron.

And the Novavax shot for this season was made with an older JN.1 strain, not one of the newer FLiRT's now circulating, as it's harder/slower to change up a protein vax vs an RNA based one.

Ancedotely I know several people who had never caught the Rona (and some that assumed they had super immunity based on level of frequent exposure) get it in the last ~2 months.

Yes, there are 4 other coronaviruses we don't vaccinate against that cause mild cold like symptoms in most people except for those who are immune compromised.

Given the vax starts waning at 4 weeks and loses efficacy at 3 mos now, I am not lining up to get a months worth of bonus protection at this time.

Wow, that's not very good. I had read that the duration was better than that...am guessing when they went into production they didn't know how short lived it would be?

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Pretty decent data suggests the rates of Long Covid have fallen off a cliff with the new variants vs any variant before Omicron.

And the Novavax shot for this season was made with an older JN.1 strain, not one of the newer FLiRT's now circulating, as it's harder/slower to change up a protein vax vs an RNA based one.

Ancedotely I know several people who had never caught the Rona (and some that assumed they had super immunity based on level of frequent exposure) get it in the last ~2 months.

Yes, there are 4 other coronaviruses we don't vaccinate against that cause mild cold like symptoms in most people except for those who are immune compromised.

Given the vax starts waning at 4 weeks and loses efficacy at 3 mos now, I am not lining up to get a months worth of bonus protection at this time.

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Is this take directed at the Novavax approach specifically or are you also addressing the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines that are targeting KP.2?

I generally wait until November to get my boosters to have full effect through the holidays, but I too have had positive outcomes from the Moderna boosters I've had the past 2 year.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

Underwhelming, certainly for most here who are not in the over 65 category. Less than 10 hospitalizations per 100,000 for < 65yrs old. So I wonder what the NNT (number needed to treat) is for the vaccine at this point to have clinically meaningful benefit? Would be curious, but hard to find recent studies.

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Oh Shit!!
Booster may be like taking chicken soup for a cold in a way. May not cure it but it couldn't hurt. Had all the shots on time. So far I've not had a reaction. Have not had covid AFAIK. Slept with my wife when she had it bad for a few days early in the pandemic. Getting the new booster this week.

FWIW CDC and infectious disease guys (at places like Yale and JHU) are still saying get the booster, so I'm inclined to do so. Not much downside, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

Underwhelming, certainly for most here who are not in the over 65 category. Less than 10 hospitalizations per 100,000 for < 65yrs old. So I wonder what the NNT (number needed to treat) is for the vaccine at this point to have clinically meaningful benefit? Would be curious, but hard to find recent studies.

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I’d wager the vast, vast majority of middle aged athletic people suffering from long covid never even went to the ER with their covid let alone got hospitalized with it.

Pissing out your ass for 2 weeks and not being able to run 5 miles wouldn’t lead to hospitalization in an otherwise healthy person - but that’s not at all reassuring enough to say “meh covid is no big deal anymore”

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Originally Posted by alias_rice

My company is doing a clinic this fall, but I am only doing the flu vaccine this year. Moderna #2 and booster #1 both took me out for about 36 hours. Those 2 shots were easily the sickest I have been in the past 15 years, and I have no desire to do it again.

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This sums up my experience exactly. No mas.

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Originally Posted by bennymac

I’d wager the vast, vast majority of middle aged athletic people suffering from long covid never even went to the ER with their covid let alone got hospitalized with it.

Pissing out your ass for 2 weeks and not being able to run 5 miles wouldn’t lead to hospitalization in an otherwise healthy person - but that’s not at all reassuring enough to say “meh covid is no big deal anymore”

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Unless you have a urethrorectal fistula, pissing out your ass secondary to covid is usually self limiting.

How often are you encountering covid in your practice?

Likely the same as you.

Doesn’t mean it’s not nothing. My barometer for “is this an infection I want to get” is not limited to the risk of hospitalization nor is it limited to “is it temporary or life long”

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Originally Posted by bennymac

Likely the same as you.

Doesn’t mean it’s not nothing. My barometer for “is this an infection I want to get” is not limited to the risk of hospitalization nor is it limited to “is it temporary or life long”

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Is it limited by the fact that the vax won't prevent you from getting it?

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Originally Posted by bennymac

I’d wager the vast, vast majority of middle aged athletic people suffering from long covid never even went to the ER with their covid let alone got hospitalized with it.

Pissing out your ass for 2 weeks and not being able to run 5 miles wouldn’t lead to hospitalization in an otherwise healthy person - but that’s not at all reassuring enough to say “meh covid is no big deal anymore”

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If I hear you say "pissing out your ass" one more time I think I'm just going to scream.

Maybe Mofro can comment but it seems like if enough people get vaccinated--unlikely--there is less virus replicating in the community which means less or at least slower mutation.

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Is it limited by the fact that the vax won't prevent you from getting it?

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Flu shots don’t limit you from contracting the flu. They still “work” though. People giving up on benefit because that benefit isn’t 100% perfect is kinda astounding. Seat belts don’t prevent 100% of injuries but they still “work”

In fact no vaccine forms a force field around your body literally preventing the virus or bacteria from entering your body. You get that right?

It all comes down to what does your immune system do when the infection occurs - I’d like my immune system as ready as possible.

I guarantee I’ve been in very close contact with more sick people with acute covid than you have. And I’ve never tested positive nor had symptoms that resemble covid infection. Yeah that’s one piece of anecdotal evidence - but it’s backed up by robust statistics.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...eb6e05aedf.jpg

My question is this. We have age/comorbidity related risk stratification for pneumococcal, RSV vaccine, but seemingly not the same for Covid vaccines?

We have guidelines based on age/risk for statins, we know the efficacy of DM2 meds, we deleted aspirin from primary prevention essentially , all based on evidence, or lack of.

Why is there no significant age/comorbid stratification for covid booster?

“CDC recommends that people receive all recommended COVID-19 vaccine doses. Vaccination is especially important for people at highest risk of severe COVID-19, including people ages 65 years and older; people with underlying medical conditions, including immune compromise; people living in long-term care facilities; and pregnant people to protect themselves and their infants.”

Got both shots 2 weeks ago.
Soreness and a slight reaction to the shots which is usual for me.
Asked my doctor if I should get the covid shot.
He said it didn't cover the newest strain but might help with the symptoms if I catch it.
He is currently treating 50 patients at our hospital with Covid.
All the patients were either not vaccinated or never had Covid.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

My question is this. We have age/comorbidity related risk stratification for pneumococcal, RSV vaccine, but seemingly not the same for Covid vaccines?

We have guidelines based on age/risk for statins, we know the efficacy of DM2 meds, we deleted aspirin from primary prevention essentially , all based on evidence, or lack of.

Why is there no significant age/comorbid stratification for covid booster?

“CDC recommends that people receive all recommended COVID-19 vaccine doses. Vaccination is especially important for people at highest risk of severe COVID-19, including people ages 65 years and older; people with underlying medical conditions, including immune compromise; people living in long-term care facilities; and pregnant people to protect themselves and their infants.”

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For starters, covid is a new disease. As time goes on recommendations may change. CDC does recommend flu shots for everyone over 6m.
I don't know why RSV and pneumococcal vaccines aren't recommended for everyone. Regarding drugs, it's easy to understand, since the serious adverse effect rate for medications is a lot higher than for vaccines. (Yellow fever vacc is an exception; I was told not to get it because of my age.)

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Originally Posted by Not DJSapp

Feel slightly shitty for a day after the shot, or roll the dice that you'll piss shit out of your ass for a week and be bedridden. Sure the odds are low, but that sucks.

And as far as the whole 'wE DoNT KnOW WHat's IN iT?!?!?' crowd, I've partied with maggots before. Y'all put all kinds of shit into your bodies that are way worse than the vax. Your body is a temple, until someone passes you a tequila shot and a bong, and then you're microdosing in the parking lot of a waffle house.

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Sage.

My sinuses have been angry with me again for the past couple weeks. If they don’t settle down, will likely visit the doc and get some nasal steroids. First week of school, daughter brings something home and both her and my wife have been down since Saturday, some kind of stomach bug it seems.

So far no one in the house has tested positive for the ‘vid. Kinda weird, but whatever. Haven’t had the flu since early 90’s in uni. Will be getting both the ‘vid and flu vax again when available, never had more than a sore shoulder from a vax so far, and hope to spend time with the parents this winter. Dad and FIL are in their 80’s now.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Pretty decent data suggests the rates of Long Covid have fallen off a cliff with the new variants vs any variant before Omicron.

And the Novavax shot for this season was made with an older JN.1 strain, not one of the newer FLiRT's now circulating, as it's harder/slower to change up a protein vax vs an RNA based one.

….

Given the vax starts waning at 4 weeks and loses efficacy at 3 mos now, I am not lining up to get a months worth of bonus protection at this time.

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Appreciating your input, as I hope all mags do.

My understanding has been that new novavax is to the recent “parent variant,” jn.1 to the current main variant and the possible XEB(?) upcoming variant. It’s not as targeted as the mRNA vaxes, “but close enough,” is what I’ve read. And the previous novavax boosters apparently were more robust and waned less(?) than the mRNA counterparts. This guy seemed to have spent a lot of time arguing that it’s good: https://x.com/daniel_e_park/status/1...Mbjk5ElmdWLRnQ

On the LC subject, what are the LC rates with current variants? I feel like things that I have seen are pointing at older data, because of the time that it takes to publish, but they seem to consistently enforce that data shows that boosters have reduced prevalence of long covid.

Difficult to remove the bias of those that are amplifying the messaging, like Marks, who is an FDA approver, and friends and family that have noticeably changed over the past few years post infection. I have a niece that was a young athlete….

This is a valid point ^^^^
Just because you didn't end up hospitalized doesn't make it something to ignore. I get that we don't have a stats for un-hospitalized cases, but the significant number of anecdotal reports are more than enough for me, especially since one of those is me. Unless you know you will have a serious reaction (requiring hospitalization??:fmicon: ), I don't accept your "not enough significant benefit".

It's not that the booster doesn't work- it does. It's just the time frame of efficacy is short, and most people aren't on board with a booster every 3-6mos perpetually, like would be needed to maintain "peak immunity".

Will you encounter the Rona in Sept-Oct, or Jan/Feb? With the limited durability, one has to choose whether to get it now or wait until end of Oct/Nov for winter coverage.
I

I’m definitely indoors in public spaces more in winter.

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Originally Posted by old goat

For starters, covid is a new disease. As time goes on recommendations may change. CDC does recommend flu shots for everyone over 6m.
I don't know why RSV and pneumococcal vaccines aren't recommended for everyone. Regarding drugs, it's easy to understand, since the serious adverse effect rate for medications is a lot higher than for vaccines. (Yellow fever vacc is an exception; I was told not to get it because of my age.)

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I understand that and agree, but the mantra really doesn’t match with disease burden even remotely at this point. It did until the time Delta faded and Omicron came around. Since then it’s been a burden of only those cohorts that match pneumococcal criteria.

It seems like dogma stuck in 2020/2021.

Anecdotally but one of my ex’s now has long covid from her latest bout with. the Vid. Lung issues and elevated resting heart rate. Kind of worrying actually despite what data may be showing

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

It's not that the booster doesn't work- it does. It's just the time frame of efficacy is short, and most people aren't on board with a booster every 3-6mos perpetually, like would be needed to maintain "peak immunity".

Will you encounter the Rona in Sept-Oct, or Jan/Feb? With the limited durability, one has to choose whether to get it now or wait until end of Oct/Nov for winter coverage.
I

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Maybe the thing is to a shot a few weeks before a big trip, where you're likely to be exposed to a lot more people in close quarters and where getting sick would be a big problem. Anyone want to do a 10 hour flight wearing an N95?

I got Flu and Pneumonia shots at my physical on Monday. Doc said I needed to go to a pharmacy for the COVID-19 booster.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Maybe the thing is to a shot a few weeks before a big trip, where you're likely to be exposed to a lot more people in close quarters and where getting sick would be a big problem. Anyone want to do a 10 hour flight wearing an N95?

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Sure. I always bring one just in case I end up sitting near somebody who is coughing/sneezing/obviously sick. Always the good masks by 3M like I used to wear painting for dust and spray mist. I grew accustomed to eight hours in a mask and don't mind it a bit if I think it's doing me some good.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

My question is this. We have age/comorbidity related risk stratification for pneumococcal, RSV vaccine, but seemingly not the same for Covid vaccines?

We have guidelines based on age/risk for statins, we know the efficacy of DM2 meds, we deleted aspirin from primary prevention essentially , all based on evidence, or lack of.

Why is there no significant age/comorbid stratification for covid booster?

“CDC recommends that people receive all recommended COVID-19 vaccine doses. Vaccination is especially important for people at highest risk of severe COVID-19, including people ages 65 years and older; people with underlying medical conditions, including immune compromise; people living in long-term care facilities; and pregnant people to protect themselves and their infants.”

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The data collection is permanently fucked regarding the vax and covid because they lumped recently vaxed in with unvaxed, so covid positivity within a couple weeks of the vax is used as evidence of vax efficacy vs unvaxed, and the sadly, the same distortion affects the vax side effects within the first couple weeks of being vax.

They can study stuff now, but since that data is corrupted, there is a pretty hard limit on what those studies can look at, considering it's now just about impossible to find enough people who have never been exposed to either the vax or covid to study.

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Originally Posted by riser4

Sage.

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He said a tequila shot and a bong are way worse than possible vax side effects? This is empirically objectively false, not sage at all. Odd choice, doesnt' thc and cbd have a protective effect against covid anyways?

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

It's not that the booster doesn't work- it does. It's just the time frame of efficacy is short, and most people aren't on board with a booster every 3-6mos perpetually, like would be needed to maintain "peak immunity".

Will you encounter the Rona in Sept-Oct, or Jan/Feb? With the limited durability, one has to choose whether to get it now or wait until end of Oct/Nov for winter coverage.
I

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There is also some evidence that the immunity drop when efficacy wanes, can drop lower than you would be if you had never taken the vax, albeit temporarily.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Maybe the thing is to a shot a few weeks before a big trip, where you're likely to be exposed to a lot more people in close quarters and where getting sick would be a big problem. Anyone want to do a 10 hour flight wearing an N95?

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I'm going to Paris in 6 weeks, so used that logic and am getting the shot in a couple of weeks.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

He said a tequila shot and a bong are way worse than possible vax side effects? This is empirically objectively false, not sage at all. Odd choice, doesnt' thc and cbd have a protective effect against covid anyways?

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No, it's the whole of partying with maggots. It starts with a shot and a bong, I implied it goes through some really blurry times when you're taking god knows what, and the night/morning ends with microdosing at waffle house.

Last I checked, the side effects of acid and waffle house are far worse than the vax.

I would submit that the effects of acid are better than the vax, but I get your point.

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Originally Posted by Not DJSapp

No, it's the whole of partying with maggots. It starts with a shot and a bong, I implied it goes through some really blurry times when you're taking god knows what, and the night/morning ends with microdosing at waffle house.

Last I checked, the side effects of acid and waffle house are far worse than the vax.

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The worst place to get sick is around schools or kids and by definition all your kids friends and their family ect so if you aren't around kids or schools you are less likely to pick up anything so while it would seem less healthy maybe the single party scene is not ?

but maybe you wana quit passing the reefer and that bottle of fireball, i know i don't anymore ?

in the thick of covid a local tree planting outfit properly quarantined before going into camp and operated a full planting season out in the middle of nowhere with ZERO sickness. So usually one person on a crew would be sick is pretty standard but beside no covid they had no cold of any kind no down time so lots of trees planted

This thread jinxed me. I started feeling a bit of a sore throat last night and I'm definitely sick today. I haven't taken a COVID test yet, though.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

The worst place to get sick is around schools or kids and by definition all your kids friends and their family ect so if you aren't around kids or schools you are less likely to pick up anything so while it would seem less healthy maybe the single party scene is not ?

but maybe you wana quit passing the reefer and that bottle of fireball, i know i don't anymore ?

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My daughter is teaching a self contained class in an elementary school this year. I figure this is when I'll finally catch covid after avoiding it for the last 4 1/2 years *sigh* I haven't smoked with anyone since winter 2020, a few times when someone sees me grabbing a quick hit they've asked to share and when I turned them down they seem offended especially at concerts or social events. Some understand when I explain why but most don't. Oh well.

well up here its legal so MJ is all over the place, walk out in fron tof a bar and everybody is goind to the magic kingdom, the smoke was bad on my pipes so I was eating the gummies but after taking up micro dosing psysilicybin I stopped the MJ, I'm now out of micro dose caps and don't seem to care