Upinsmoke - where are you located? I’d love to check these out. I’m in Durango.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Printable View
Upinsmoke - where are you located? I’d love to check these out. I’m in Durango.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
180 and 193 lengths cancelled?
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
so what is the real impact of the swallowtail on the way a ski feels? I've never skied anything with that type of tail.
cheers.
nvmd: I re-read Marshal's post above.
"but the biggest thing I think you would notice, coming off the skis you are, is that the ski will bring the slashy easily released tail of a setback pintail (due to the cutout's reduciton of torsional rigidity) to a much more balanced ski shape that rides more neutrally in untracked snow, and is legitimately fun as the mountain tracks out."
What???Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarhey
If true for the 180, it makes sense given what Marshal said about shorter sizes. I would expect enough sales of the 193, though, no?
Zero orders for 180 FR and 193 Rs, so I turned em off. If you really want a pair, I will swing it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarhey
All the other Swallowtail iterations are a go!
I sent you a PM re sanooks etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Dang it! Read it and lost track of it!! Will reply now. Thanks for the ping
These are really good skis.
Attachment 487129
Attachment 487133
Order in for 180 FR120ST, woot!
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Man oh man these look so sweet. Someone convince me why I should get a pair of the 193 FRs when I already have 190 Catamarans
Idiot question here, but I don't want to fuck up.
Preparing to mount my R120STs.
Checking Marshal's chart indicates recommended is 84.75cm from the tail.
That's from where the tail would be right?
Not from the swallowtail cutout.
Yes, from the very end, not the cutout.
I'd also say to just mount -0.5 or so from your R110's if you are digging those where they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
Can attest. 110 is at -8 and 120 is at 8.5. Feel perfect there.
I’m 84cm from tail on my r120 and it’s perfect for me. Floats plenty and still feels agile.
I think you already know the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by lrn2swim
The old +1, yeah I knowQuote:
Originally Posted by L8APX
In my case it was the old sell my vanilla skiing K2’s (no disrespect K2) and buy some kick ass skis that rip from MO.Quote:
Originally Posted by lrn2swim
Hate to break it to ya but the big boy Catamarans are anything but vanilla. Absurdly funQuote:
Originally Posted by L8APX
Just got done mounting up my R120STs with P15 Harlaut's 1.0s. (@84.2 from tail).
Look pretty hot.
:D
But I haven't been able to post pics for ages.
Do I need Tapatalk?
That or basic internet-ing skills, but I'd go Tapatalk... that's what I did. :FM: Please do figure it out cause I want to see that combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
P.S.
Just remembered I was going to send you some shims for your ZRs. I'll get those in the mail this week. Mine work great!
Sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by waveshello
marsh: message sent
After much lurking, finally in on the party. BC120ST's on preorder (and some R110s too, just for science)
I had the fl113s out yesterday for the bluebird and started today on the FR120s to better handle the sierra cement. They both have their place and excel in the conditions they're intended for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrkRo6SgrT4
Sick!
I concur. I have fl113 inbound. Chop stands no chance
1/2 day on my 187R120Sts in a foot or so of Beaver Mountain goodness.
They are simply sublime.
Charge or play; dealer's choice.
Insanely easy to ski for how fast you can go!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
All I can say is fuck you guys and your fancy "knee deep powder snow", and your hoity-toity "sierra cement"...us poor, dumb, white trash losers have been rolling on an ignorant 9" base; no "Beaver Mountain goodness" for us. Your vids and pics are fucking killing me.
Yeah, you can throw the switch (either way) pretty much at any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by K1mJ0ngTr1ll
Big giant GS machpowderturns all the way down to full sideways jesuschristposeslarves to nip into the next tight powder pocket!
Much happiness.
:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Thomas
this sounds like a personal problem. Vibes
So I have had the BC version out about 10-15 days now and feel I have a good grasp of them. I'm mounted at -7 of center on the 187s. First handful of days these were on pretty low angle terrain, mainly hippy pow turns in boot top plus pow and some crusts on south aspects. They planed up and floated well on the low angle pow in the trees and didn't get caught up in the crust as long as I kept them pointed downhill. Easy to shut down and pivot if you take the wrong line and things get tight. Probably 80-90% as good in terms of float as the 132s, not quite as intuitive on breakable crust, but still handled it better than my skinnier touring skis for sure.
I've really found where these things shine though are when the terrain lets you open things up a bit. It doesn't need to be steep but 30-35 degree slopes with little convexities, bowls, etc. are really where these start to come into their own for me. They love all sorts of turn shapes and I can carve big arcs or milk poppy, tight radius turns, pop off little features, etc. You can mostly steer from the ankles and let them do their thing without feeling you need to drive them, so for a neutral skier like me they're perfect.
I was describing what I imagine the perfect inbounds powder ski for me would be to my partner the other day...
190ish length
118 underfoot
Long rocker
24ish turn radius
2300-2400g
This morning I realized it basically exists under the heritage lab label [emoji2956]
Looks like I missed the boat on a deal or getting on some sooner than later
Just spent a full day on 187 fr120st's in mammoth before the storm closed the mountain for the next two days. This is the perfect inbounds powder ski. I posted in the fr110 thread about switching from that ski to the 120. It is so much better in "too little" pow than the fr110 is in "too much" pow. It trades off very little and is fun as hell. Maneuverable but stable. Makes inaccessible stashes accessible by carrying speed better than narrower skis but it doesn't hella suck in scraped off/windblown hard snow or bumps like wider skis. Get emQuote:
Originally Posted by eSock
I've got 3.5 days on mine and they are stunningly good.Quote:
Originally Posted by chewski
As chewski said the perfect inbounds powder ski.
Dial goes from:
Full Charge <-----> Full Play
At will.
My first time at Alta today and they fucking killed it!
I did do a head to head 187 R120ST vs 189 Kusala and found the Kusala to be a better pure pow weapon.
I've been telling people who ask to just go on the HL site, browse the skis and if something appeals shapewise to just buy it blind.
Great writeup. Also love the dial gauge that pfluffenmeister mentioned. Might need to pull the trigger on these soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by chewski
So i got on the 186 FR110 for one dry, knee deep powder day in February, and immediately knew i wanted the FR120ST for a heli trip in early March. After selling the FR110, I ordered the FR120ST and just accepted that they would have to wait for next year. But Marshal, magician that he is, rushed me a pair of lightly used 187 FR120ST's drilled for pivots (my binding of choice) for an almost identical BSL (I am in Tecnica Mach1 130 LV's) two weeks before my big trip.
I was immediately impressed that they seemed stiffer than the FR110. Marshal explained that the same construction in a wider width amounts to ~5% stiffer ski, but with hand flexing and after skiing them 5 days, my hand and ass-o-meter (two different, highly calibrated instruments) feel a noticeable difference (say 10-15% increase in freedom units). I was pretty surprised by the FR110's softness in hand (skied surprisingly stable though), whereas the FR120ST just felt dialed. Fit and finish, as always, is superb. All HL skis i have been in (5 now) have bomber edges, topsheets and bases that are the strongest i have ridden (only on3p is similar). The bases are faster though, and several times i was surprised by my acceleration on low angle terrain and in deep snow. On low angle pow trees this meant more accessible stashes. On cat tracks this actually meant watching out and dialing it back because I wasn't used to accelerating so quickly through techy traverses.
Attachment 490975
i was able to get one full day on the FR120ST in 4-6" of new powder at mammoth before my heli trip, and I posted about that above. We did two resort days (kicking horses on the way in and norquay right before our return flight) and four heli days right outside of golden. As you can see this was my narrower ski on this trip, so it got the nod for both resort days (despite being a ridiculous fit for the actual conditions). At kicking horse it was generally soft but heavily tracked out and consolidated resort conditions and the skis were still great. And even on a shitfuck refreeze day at norquay before catching our return flight they proved completely acceptable. Btw, brian (goldenbc) came in on his off day to fit me for zipfits, which was my priority over riding the day at i was at kicking horse, so big ups to him (and what a sick resort this seems to be). Unfortunately I didn't hike more than twice to save it for my heli days, but i will definitely be back again.
Attachment 490976
Attachment 490977
On icey groomers and moguls they muted out the harsh well and had totally adequate edge grip for what they were. The groomers at norquay verge on stupidly fast and steep for how short they are and how abruptly trails merge back together (thankfully it was a relatively empty weekday), but i had no rocking horse effect and a pretty impressive speed limit when just letting them run straight on VERY hard snow. My only real confusion with what I experienced was a bipolar tendency to link up beautifully arced turns when layed over on edge, but then occasionally all i would get were severe judders and lateral squirreliness (not rocking horse fore-aft, but truly left/right wobbles) around the underfoot section of the ski when trying to carve on very firm groomers. I experienced entire runs where the ice was just too hard and the ski just predictably skidded out of edgehold like any other ski, entire runs it linked up beautifully and just sang on edge around the sidecut radius, and entire runs where i could mostly manage only these judders. Obviously not the use case at all for this ski, but i know what these feel like on snow that's too hard for them, snow that's just soft enough for them, and i guess maybe the judders were just those few runs verging between grip and slip? I have been on many fat and rockered skis and this was new to me though. To be clear, on soft groomers these RIP.
And i still stand by what i said earlier: i much prefer the fr120st in too little snow to the fr110 in too much snow. These are very versatile skis for ultra fat full rockers (and even for powder skis in general). They could definitely be skied well any day the fr110 would also be appropriate. Now on to the goods...
Attachment 490978
Of the four heli days I liked this ski enough to choose it over the FR132 for three of those days in perfect cold, dry boot top to knee deep powder. There were some wind crusts, inverted pow, and tracked runouts/traverses back to a heli pickup, but these always felt intuitive and comfortable. Stand upright to surf around medium radius turns and swivel quick direction changes. Or lean into them to enter the whiteroom and drive a big arc down the fall line. They could do tight trees and open faces equally well, whereas i never got on with the fr132 in the open. I found that during my 5 days in R/R they always defaulted to wanting to finish the turn/slarve and would inevitably end up taking the smaller arc. to hold a bigger arc took active counter steering, which quite doable, is not a sensation i love. Also, i am a fan of the feeling of a truly unsinkable tip. The fr132's float like a mofo, but obviously it's from underfoot rather than the tip. Once you feel it and learn to trust it it doesn't reeeally matter, but i still feel invincible when the tip is providing the float rather than the midsection. As for turn shape, conventional sidecut skis feel the opposite with bigger radius turns always on tap that can be closed down with some shin pressure, which is also my preference. Maybe i got it wrong in just 5 days on the fr132, but that's my main driving reason for preferring the fr120st most days this trip (aside from the obvious utility gain in traverses and firm runouts).
Anyways, these are solidly cemented as my resort pow ski and even my main heli ski moving forward. Previously 189 pre-asymm billyogats were my all time resort powder ski, and they will definitely get some a/b'ing next year along the FR120ST. The only ski I like more in deep powder so far are volkl 3's, which will definitely be accompanying the FR120ST's for heli next year (unless i can convince marshal to make a HL version before then)
Love it man! Thanks for the detailed thoughts.
Regarding the hard ice "judders" as you call it, I wonder if the edge is a shade sharp? Maybe feel underfoot to see if there is a sharper area on either ski, and give it 5-10 good passes with a gummi if so?
I gave them several 50+mph detunes down ice haha, but I will definitely check closer. They were sharp but not tip/tail grabby and not the feeling of any hanging burr. I may go the full 2*/2* I usually do on skis like this next year, but went with your "factory tunes" this year, and they definitely worked well in 95% of conditions. It was just when trying to tighten the radius down at high speeds on steep and HARD snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Did you do anything to the tune after your got them? I say this because they were mine and I felt that tune was dialed. They are a ton of fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by chewski
I figured they were yours after reading the thread lol. Nope but i think marshal gave them a once over and got them looking like new. This was such a fringe use case i would not call it a tune issue (unless maybe like marshal said a touch too sharp underfoot). They weren't grabby on crusts, on ice, in pow or on soft groomers. Literally just borderline edgeable/not edgeable super hardpack.Quote:
Originally Posted by K1mJ0ngTr1ll