Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

Squats are King.

And to add to his list of exercises, ideally one has access to Safety bars and Trap/Hex bars.
Safety squats - more closely resemble front squats without the need to have the required shoulder flexibility
Hex/Trap bar deadlifts - excellent for beginners to learn their 'hip hinge' and to progress their flexibility from a high bar to a low bar position, and for advanced lifters to increase load.

Yeah, I don't have access to a safety bar, so I didn't include it. Broke my wrist skiing and never regained full mobility so I front squat with straps and I can't C&J (or do regular pushups). Oh well
https://media.giphy.com/media/VyAKFgFwFBqow/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Broke my wrist skiing and never regained full mobility so I front squat with straps and I can't C&J (or do regular pushups). Oh well

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Same, have a bone chip in one elbow which doesn't allow as much flexion as the other so I really like incorporating what I call Frankensteins (or Truckdrivers) with bar resting on front of shoulders and arms outstretched straight ahead...or cross grip (but they cause a bit of a twist). I can't even do straps comfortably.

Sounds right.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Nah. Just a good hearted discussion. Figured so close to ski season a leg strengthening topic would be good.

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Yeah, it was joke, should thrown in a winky.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Squats are King.

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For stomping airs I think heavy power cleans might have an edge. My back (not my spine, the muscles) is usually more sore than my legs after a day of jumping off stuff. Cleans work that stuff harder, and I think the extra explosiveness is helpful.

Love the headspace you have to get into for a heavy set of 5 back squats, though.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Oh well
https://media.giphy.com/media/VyAKFgFwFBqow/giphy.gif

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Such a great line. Clavicle plate mostly prevents me from front squatting as well. At lighter weights I can cheat it a bit with my arms and keep the bar off it, but when it gets heavy it's ow ow ow owwwwww. I don't lose any sleep over it, it's a more quad dominant move and as discussed most of us are quad-heavy already.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

I dont train for skiing, which does negatively affect my skiing unfortunately. But I put up with it.

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Heh, I mostly considering lifting (all gym training, really) to be a necessary evil required to keep skiing and biking hard.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

For stomping airs I think heavy power cleans might have an edge. My back (not my spine, the muscles) is usually more sore than my legs after a day of jumping off stuff. Cleans work that stuff harder, and I think the extra explosiveness is helpful.

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I can't clean as mentioned above so I do the drop snatch. Similarly amazing for stomping airs, IMHO. Explosive, eccentric, and requires your trunk stabilize a weight. And less technique/mobility required than for a full snatch. Just an idea for anyone else who can't clean.

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Originally Posted by robnow

I really like incorporating what I call Frankensteins (or Truckdrivers) with bar resting on front of shoulders and arms outstretched straight ahead...or cross grip (but they cause a bit of a twist). I can't even do straps comfortably.

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Exactly! I usually do that, honestly. I don't know much about lifting to know that was a thing -- I got the idea from this amazing video of Pyrros Dimas training, around the 6:50 mark he walks the bar to the rack in that "frankenstein" position. (Talk about speed, my god.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQMZRgS6sCo

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

I don't lose any sleep over it, it's a more quad dominant move and as discussed most of us are quad-heavy already.

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Oh shit, NOW you've opened up a can of worms, haha. It gets technical (hip and knee angles, muscle activation) but essentially a multitude of studies have shown there is no significant difference in muscle activation between front and back squats.

And I would argue for stomping airs that DEEP squats are key (yes power cleans are deep squats but NOBODY, except for Pyrros is doing them properly) for developing both the strength in the bottom range of motion and flexibility/stability of the knee.

Its. all. core.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Its. all. core.

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Attachment 247017

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Originally Posted by rod9301

I used to squat, almost 400 lbs then my knees started to hurt so I started leg presses, about 700 lbs.
Then my knees hurt again.
I tried electro muscle stimulation, and it works well.

I am as strong as when I was lifting heavy, but no joint stress at all.

Once a year I get on the leg press, to verify that I'm not getting weaker, and I still do 12 reps at 14 plates or about 700 pounds

I do esm for 6 weeks, twice a year, before ski and mountain bike season, then very short sessions, once a week during season for maintenance

I find that, even with skiing 100 days a year, I did get where throughout the season if I don't do the maintenance.

The sessions are pretty hard core, you see muscle contractions far stronger than anything else I've done. Definitely can't watch TV or read while you're doing it.

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Interesting.

Do you go to a gym / physical therapist to do the work, or do you have a setup that you can use at home?

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

I can't clean as mentioned above so I do the drop snatch. Similarly amazing for stomping airs, IMHO. Explosive, eccentric, and requires your trunk stabilize a weight. And less technique/mobility required than for a full snatch. Just an idea for anyone else who can't clean.

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Yeah, that's a good move. But, no bumpers in my home gym (man would I love some, though) so for safety reasons I generally shy away from snatching.

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Originally Posted by robnow

Oh shit, NOW you've opened up a can of worms, haha. It gets technical (hip and knee angles, muscle activation) but essentially a multitude of studies have shown there is no significant difference in muscle activation between front and back squats.

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Well, if that's the case, just put the bar on your back and move more weight, eh?

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Originally Posted by robnow

And I would argue for stomping airs that DEEP squats are key (yes power cleans are deep squats but NOBODY, except for Pyrros is doing them properly) for developing both the strength in the bottom range of motion and flexibility/stability of the knee.

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Well, like I said, the next day I'll feel it more in my back than my legs. I squat plenty too, though. It's been working for me. This was closing day at Snowbird this year the day before my 36th birthday (in total sun-baked mank):

*Warning--Dickwaving Below*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQBGQLfmzmA

Awesome. Greased it. Ah, only to be 11yrs younger.....

Fuck I’m 27 and I dont stomp that hard


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Meh, kinda flailed yer arms a bit.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

Fuck I’m 27 and I dont stomp that hard


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You’ve got 10 yrs to practice. [emoji6]

Inspirational. I'm not 30 yet either but I def hope I'm skiing like that in my mid-30s and beyond.

mid 40s should be your goal to ski like that. and he missed his grab, should done a couple more squats for that

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Originally Posted by muted

mid 40s should be your goal to ski like that. and he missed his grab, should done a couple more squats for that

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Front squats for mobility gains:D

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Originally Posted by CascadeLuke

Are air squats helpful/impactful? Say you do 100+
I get leery loading big weight over weak knee. Viewed leg extension track movement safe to some extent. Timely topic as we gear up

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100% they are useful. Look up leg blasters. They'll kick your ass, and if you start today you'll kill it on day 1 of the season.

Thanks for giving me an excuse to post that video guys ;)

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Originally Posted by wicked_sick

100% they are useful. Look up leg blasters. They'll kick your ass, and if you start today you'll kill it on day 1 of the season.

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When it comes to leg blasters I think most of the magic happens in the jumping lunges and jumping squats. But, air squats are a fine conditioning exercise. You also have to have good mobility to do them with good form, so they're a good barometer in that respect.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Thanks for giving me an excuse to post that video guys ;) When it comes to leg blasters I think most of the magic happens in the jumping lunges and jumping squats. But, air squats are a fine conditioning exercise. You also have to have good mobility to do them with good form, so they're a good barometer in that respect.

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Note to self, at BBIUtah, if following DTM and you start to see big rocks n cliffs, bang a hard left or right.

Agreed on the air squats get their productivity from the jumping aspects.

Whatever, pussy, you've been doing the workouts. That's all you need to send big airs, right? :fm:

That and you needa stretch dat sac a bit.. err well I do. Need bigger ballz!


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Oh yah, add sac tuggs to wrkoot, check!

Does hanging weights off der satchel help stomp?


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Originally Posted by Norseman

Whatever, pussy, you've been doing the workouts. That's all you need to send big airs, right? :fm:

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Its not the sending that gitz ya....

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

leg extensions have been verboten for Knee-hab from every doc I've ever had. Haven't done them in damn near 30yrs.

Work the glutes and hammy's, ride a bike if you want big quads.

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this, when I got into the knee surgery game it was 1983 and they were all about the extensions. now strictly verboten, any PT studio worth it's salt won't even have a machine in the shop for that exercise anymore

Squat and deadlift should generally be the heart of it unless you're dealing with an injury or chronic condition. One leg variants are and split squats are great for working around problems. You can also go pretty heavy on weighted box steps and lunges, both of which resemble common movements in ski touring, but they aren't replacements for squats and deadlifts. If you can't squat or deadlift heavy they can be part of a strategy for filling a gap.

For many people doing deadlifts less frequently than squats, and with fewer sets, is necessary for proper recovery. Alternating with a clean or snatch variant works well and can help reduce that quad dominance.

I'm not sure why one would do back and front squats (or back and hack squats) on the same day, unless the goals is bodybuilding/hypertrophy, or the front squats are light and you're working to gain range of motions. Or if you're real serious about Olympic lifting. Otherwise, I'd recommend picking one and doing it well.

Then choose another lift or movement that might help address a weakness, or have a benefit specific to a sport you'll soon be focusing on, and do it for a month. Next month pick something else. Some good choices are any olympic lift if you know how to do it well, some sort of "bear complex" or kettlebell complex for strength/power endurance, or lifts that address mobility issues like front squat and overhead squat. You might also do front squats for a month every so often instead of back squats. Front squats generally require less recovery than back squats because they're lighter, and are conducive to improved olympic lifts. During that same month go harder/ more frequent on snatches or cleans and jerks. If you're going to be booting a bunch of couloirs in the coming months do some weighted box steps and weighted calf raises. Variety is good for motivation, but it's also good to have some strategy behind variety.

Jumping exercises like leg blasters are great, but I think there are limited benefits to doing the same thing all the time. You plateau pretty fast if you're already fit. Trying mixing it up: sprinting in the early summer (from sets of 5 sec. hill sprints to 200m repeats on a track) then add work to increase max box jump late summer. In the fall start leg blasters and some hiking/ trail running where you go fast downhill on somewhat technical trails. This will do much more to cultivating quick feet than something like jumping rope.

I tried excersizing once, it was fucking horrible. I typically train with tequila but make sure to mix it up month to month with gin, beer, and occasionally whiskey just to really make it tuff on the bod, no pain no gain right? Train hard ski hard.

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Squat and deadlift should generally be the heart of it unless you're dealing with an injury or chronic condition. One leg variants are and split squats are great for working around problems. You can also go pretty heavy on weighted box steps and lunges, both of which resemble common movements in ski touring, but they aren't replacements for squats and deadlifts. If you can't squat or deadlift heavy they can be part of a strategy for filling a gap.

For many people doing deadlifts less frequently than squats, and with fewer sets, is necessary for proper recovery. Alternating with a clean or snatch variant works well and can help reduce that quad dominance.

I'm not sure why one would do back and front squats (or back and hack squats) on the same day, unless the goals is bodybuilding/hypertrophy, or the front squats are light and you're working to gain range of motions. Or if you're real serious about Olympic lifting. Otherwise, I'd recommend picking one and doing it well.

Then choose another lift or movement that might help address a weakness, or have a benefit specific to a sport you'll soon be focusing on, and do it for a month. Next month pick something else. Some good choices are any olympic lift if you know how to do it well, some sort of "bear complex" or kettlebell complex for strength/power endurance, or lifts that address mobility issues like front squat and overhead squat. You might also do front squats for a month every so often instead of back squats. Front squats generally require less recovery than back squats because they're lighter, and are conducive to improved olympic lifts. During that same month go harder/ more frequent on snatches or cleans and jerks. If you're going to be booting a bunch of couloirs in the coming months do some weighted box steps and weighted calf raises. Variety is good for motivation, but it's also good to have some strategy behind variety.

Jumping exercises like leg blasters are great, but I think there are limited benefits to doing the same thing all the time. You plateau pretty fast if you're already fit. Trying mixing it up: sprinting in the early summer (from sets of 5 sec. hill sprints to 200m repeats on a track) then add work to increase max box jump late summer. In the fall start leg blasters and some hiking/ trail running where you go fast downhill on somewhat technical trails. This will do much more to cultivating quick feet than something like jumping rope.

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You kinda sound like you know what ur talkin about. [emoji3]

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Originally Posted by eskido

I tried excersizing once, it was fucking horrible. I typically train with tequila but make sure to mix it up month to month with gin, beer, and occasionally whiskey just to really make it tuff on the bod, no pain no gain right? Train hard ski hard.

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I am drinking tequila...giddeeup!


My knees hate me, but I bike and do knee rehab stuff with just body weight. So far so good.

And Dan, ditch the plate man. Best thing I did was having the doc unscrew that from my clavicle. Well worth it.

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Originally Posted by TG

Interesting.

Do you go to a gym / physical therapist to do the work, or do you have a setup that you can use at home?

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I have a compex, costs about 150 or so. Do it at home.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

I can't clean as mentioned above so I do the drop snatch. Similarly amazing for stomping airs, IMHO. Explosive, eccentric, and requires your trunk stabilize a weight. And less technique/mobility required than for a full snatch. Just an idea for anyone else who can't clean.

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I have a herniated l4/5 in my back from a injury a few years ago that keeps me from squatting/deadlift/cleans. Any time I ramp up weight with those lifts my disc will bulge and i can’t lift for about a month, I’ve completely dropped those lifts from my workouts. I’m guessing that drop snatch would be out for me too? Right now my power generating lifts are Bulgarians and legpress, which work well for me but those snatches look like an awesome addition.

Thanks everyone for all the info, I just cut out extensions and replaced with glute ham raises for my leg days.



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Yeah, probably out of the question. Drop snatch should only be attempted if you can overhead squat fine without pain. And OHS requires more mobility than a regular backsquat, especially in the shoulders and T-spine.

It’s also possible you don’t have good enough mobility in your hips and ankles to hit depth in the squat so you have excessive flexion in your lumbar spine causing your herniated disk to hurt. Just a thought. If you’re able to hit parallel depth with a neutral spine then disregard.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Thanks for giving me an excuse to post that video guys ;) When it comes to leg blasters I think most of the magic happens in the jumping lunges and jumping squats. But, air squats are a fine conditioning exercise. You also have to have good mobility to do them with good form, so they're a good barometer in that respect.

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I agree, but I think doing it while fatigued (from the lunges and air squats) probably matters too. I've done split jumps to near failure at the end of sets of hill sprints with good results. Great for when you're away from a gym.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

And Dan, ditch the plate man. Best thing I did was having the doc unscrew that from my clavicle. Well worth it.

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That's the long term plan. It will cost me about $3k to have it removed and I've had more pressing financial priorities.

I'm definitely on board with ISBDs suggestions of strategic variety and downhill trail running for skiing prep.

I also try to do anything I can to make my life my workout. I don't take an elevator if there are stairs. If it's only a flight or few I run them two at a time. If it's more I still skip every other. In my house I run the stairs, period. I bike wherever possible. If I can't bike I park all the way at the far end of the lot. I do little micro workouts throughout the day at work. At home I stand on a balance board while watching TV or perusing tgr on the phone. Lots of little stuff that adds up to a lot when done all day every day.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

That's the long term plan. It will cost me about $3k to have it removed and I've had more pressing financial priorities.

I'm definitely on board with ISBDs suggestions of strategic variety and downhill trail running for skiing prep.

I also try to do anything I can to make my life my workout. I don't take an elevator if there are stairs. If it's only a flight or few I run them two at a time. If it's more I still skip every other. In my house I run the stairs, period. I bike wherever possible. If I can't bike I park all the way at the far end of the lot. I do little micro workouts throughout the day at work. At home I stand on a balance board while watching TV or perusing tgr on the phone. Lots of little stuff that adds up to a lot when done all day every day.

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This topic got some legs...

That’s funny. I do the same stuff. My wife makes fun of me because I stand on one foot when I dry off after a shower. Next shower is the other foot. When I work my upper body I flip over a bosu ball and stand on the flat side for bicep curls, shoulder presses etc. Always working on balance.

Ski season is nigh. Lots of great info in here. If you haven’t started getting ready, the time is now. Grab some bits and pieces from this and put together a work out. Esp leg blasters. Your body will thank you come ski season and may save you from an injury. I train year round with the occasional hiatus. Just got back in the gym after 2months off. I was still active though. Feels great.

Training for the New Alpinism has some excellent thoughts on periodization so it might be worth mentioning here. Especially the idea that strength forms the basis for endurance, which I’m sure has been around for a while but that’s where I read it. So a typical 6 month periodization might be 1-2 months of transition to training (especially important if you’ve taken time off recently), 2 months of max strength, and 3-4 months for muscular endurance. So if you’re looking to piece together a training plan, definitely consider something along the lines of that progression.

But yeah, more movement in general is always good. I love that I can (have to) walk to work these days.

The most effective exercise program is 3x48, whatever you can do at least 3 days a week, 48 weeks a year.

The best exercise program is one that incorporates all / most types of movement and strength; movement / flexibility, explosive movements, power, strength, muscular endurance, endurance and conditioning. The amount and frequency of these vary.

Don't get injured working out. An exercise that is less effective but safer is a good trade. Those less effective exercises are probably not noticeably less effective.

Probably the best exercises I have found to prepare me for resort skiing are relatively heavy high rep kettlebell swings; 12-15 reps, 3-5 sets, 60-100lbs (I like to pair them with KB Squat too), and leg blasters. Resort skiing mainly makes you sore due to the eccentric component of skiing. You have to train the eccentric, remember when Bode had that eccentric squat machine in his barn? You don't need one, but it was cool.

I miss the Crossfit thread

worth it.