Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

**charles martel** · 09-11-2018, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

What do you guys think about small plyometric hops or even jumping rope, to get muscles ready for skiing difficult snow. Like when skiing breakable crusts, and you have to lift up and over the crust every.single.turn, to not get hung up underneath it.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Plyos should come after base fitness with aerobic, strength and mobility is sound.

Then, they should be periodized.

Real question: do you ski with plyos? I mean, do you jump?

I ask because plyos happened to train fast twitch muscle fiber. Now, do you really use the fast-twitch would you ski. World Cup racers do. Competitive snowboarder too. But, do you really use that. I tend to think they're a little bit over shoot and misdirection for training for the average skier.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using TGR Forums mobile app

**Dantheman** · 09-11-2018, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

Ooo. Today is Leg Day for me. Front and Back Squats, regular and romanian deadlifts.

Seems like a bit much.

As to the OP--Come on, this was a troll, right?

**Banh Mi** · 09-11-2018, 01:32 PM

BGs and Rx ski dat crap with ease too. I was just wondering if exercise could make those difficult ski conditions more fun, I love making difficult stuff easier and more fun.

AUVgeek nailed the answer for me, Technique and predictable skis. So now I dont waste my time.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**2FUNKY** · 09-11-2018, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Seems like a bit much.

As to the OP--Come on, this was a troll, right?

Nah. Just a good hearted discussion. Figured so close to ski season a leg strengthening topic would be good.

**rod9301** · 09-11-2018, 01:43 PM

I used to squat, almost 400 lbs then my knees started to hurt so I started leg presses, about 700 lbs.
Then my knees hurt again.
I tried electro muscle stimulation, and it works well.

I am as strong as when I was lifting heavy, but no joint stress at all.

Once a year I get on the leg press, to verify that I'm not getting weaker, and I still do 12 reps at 14 plates or about 700 pounds

I do esm for 6 weeks, twice a year, before ski and mountain bike season, then very short sessions, once a week during season for maintenance

I find that, even with skiing 100 days a year, I did get where throughout the season if I don't do the maintenance.

The sessions are pretty hard core, you see muscle contractions far stronger than anything else I've done. Definitely can't watch TV or read while you're doing it.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

**eskido** · 09-11-2018, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by charles martel

Now, do you really use the fast-twitch would you ski. World Cup racers do. Competitive snowboarder too. But, do you really use that. I tend to think they're a little bit over shoot and misdirection for training for the average skier.

Average?? You say AVERAGE!!?? Unfuckingbelievable... do you have any idea who you are talking to?? This is MUTHA FUCKIN TGR for fuck sake!

.... think I hit my quota for the day, need a beer now

**Banh Mi** · 09-11-2018, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by charles martel

Plyos should come after base fitness with aerobic, strength and mobility is sound.

Then, they should be periodized.

Real question: do you ski with plyos? I mean, do you jump?

I ask because plyos happened to train fast twitch muscle fiber. Now, do you really use the fast-twitch would you ski. World Cup racers do. Competitive snowboarder too. But, do you really use that. I tend to think they're a little bit over shoot and misdirection for training for the average skier.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using TGR Forums mobile app

I dont ever pay attention to that, and my technique definitely isnt the best. I could be using fast twitch, when I shouldnt be..

I just meant for those little upwards motions you use to get up and over difficult 3D snow. Not bigger box jumps and stuff.

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Seems like a bit much.

As to the OP--Come on, this was a troll, right?

Today is a light weight day. I try to get in that amount for a light day, just less sets on each exercise, and cover all parts of the muscles. On heavy days I stick to 3 main movements, back squat, deadlift, and leg press or something else.

I dont train for skiing, which does negatively affect my skiing unfortunately. But I put up with it.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**charles martel** · 09-11-2018, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by eskido

Average?? You say AVERAGE!!?? Unfuckingbelievable... do you have any idea who you are talking to?? This is MUTHA FUCKIN TGR for fuck sake!

.... think I hit my quota for the day, need a beer now

I do know who I am talking to.

Chill, dude.

If you need plyos, by all means. But, you do understand they should be part of a periodized regimen. And, they are not for everyone. You know that, right?

Sent from my moto e5 plus using TGR Forums mobile app

**Banh Mi** · 09-11-2018, 01:50 PM

Are plyos better for skiers who go hamm?

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**charles martel** · 09-11-2018, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

I dont ever pay attention to that, and my technique definitely isnt the best. I could be using fast twitch, when I shouldnt be..

I just meant for those little upwards motions you use to get up and over difficult 3D snow. Not bigger box jumps and stuff.

Today is a light weight day. I try to get in that amount for a light day, just less sets on each exercise, and cover all parts of the muscles. On heavy days I stick to 3 main movements, back squat, deadlift, and leg press or something else.

I dont train for skiing, which does negatively affect my skiing unfortunately. But I put up with it.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I get it. Did not mean to insult you, at all. Sorry.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using TGR Forums mobile app

**robnow** · 09-11-2018, 01:51 PM

+1 to what Auvgeek said.

We are all SO quad dominant (develops strength imbalances structurally around knee and hips) that we really need to focus on the posterior muscles (hamstrings, glutes) which will ultimately put less strain on the joints, not more. Leg extensions are almost solely for bodybuilding aesthetics (higher reps for hypertrophy and 'pump'). I'd even argue that any doctor/athletic therapist that actually knows training and rehab would stay away from leg extensions and focus on other exercises for time better spent. The only time I could see leg extensions being useful for rehab is if the patient had some neurological damage and they were teaching the patient to get some feel or activation.

**eskido** · 09-11-2018, 01:52 PM

I know I eat, shit, and sleep plyos, cuz I’m fuckin amazing

**Banh Mi** · 09-11-2018, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by charles martel

I get it. Did not mean to insult you, at all. Sorry.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using TGR Forums mobile app

Youre fine, you didnt insult me. I didnt even think you meant skiing fast, I thought you meant certain styles and movements.

What you are saying makes sense, but I think I do fall into the category that does use fast twitch while skiing. Im not the greatest skier, but like to ski that particular way.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**Mofro261** · 09-11-2018, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

Are plyos better skiers who go hamm?

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

If you mean the beer refreshing, then yes.

**Banh Mi** · 09-11-2018, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Mofro261

If you mean the beer refreshing, then yes.

Thanks, that’s exactly what I meant

Attachment 246995

I go Hamm’s every night

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**2FUNKY** · 09-11-2018, 02:00 PM

Squats are King.

**robnow** · 09-11-2018, 02:08 PM

And to add to his list of exercises, ideally one has access to Safety bars and Trap/Hex bars.
Safety squats - more closely resemble front squats without the need to have the required shoulder flexibility
Hex/Trap bar deadlifts - excellent for beginners to learn their 'hip hinge' and to progress their flexibility from a high bar to a low bar position, and for advanced lifters to increase load.

**auvgeek** · 09-11-2018, 02:14 PM

Yeah, I don't have access to a safety bar, so I didn't include it. Broke my wrist skiing and never regained full mobility so I front squat with straps and I can't C&J (or do regular pushups). Oh well

**robnow** · 09-11-2018, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Broke my wrist skiing and never regained full mobility so I front squat with straps and I can't C&J (or do regular pushups). Oh well

Same, have a bone chip in one elbow which doesn't allow as much flexion as the other so I really like incorporating what I call Frankensteins (or Truckdrivers) with bar resting on front of shoulders and arms outstretched straight ahead...or cross grip (but they cause a bit of a twist). I can't even do straps comfortably.

**charles martel** · 09-11-2018, 02:24 PM

Sounds right.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using TGR Forums mobile app

**Dantheman** · 09-11-2018, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Nah. Just a good hearted discussion. Figured so close to ski season a leg strengthening topic would be good.

Yeah, it was joke, should thrown in a winky.

Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Squats are King.

For stomping airs I think heavy power cleans might have an edge. My back (not my spine, the muscles) is usually more sore than my legs after a day of jumping off stuff. Cleans work that stuff harder, and I think the extra explosiveness is helpful.

Love the headspace you have to get into for a heavy set of 5 back squats, though.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Oh well

Such a great line. Clavicle plate mostly prevents me from front squatting as well. At lighter weights I can cheat it a bit with my arms and keep the bar off it, but when it gets heavy it's ow ow ow owwwwww. I don't lose any sleep over it, it's a more quad dominant move and as discussed most of us are quad-heavy already.

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

I dont train for skiing, which does negatively affect my skiing unfortunately. But I put up with it.

Heh, I mostly considering lifting (all gym training, really) to be a necessary evil required to keep skiing and biking hard.

**auvgeek** · 09-11-2018, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

For stomping airs I think heavy power cleans might have an edge. My back (not my spine, the muscles) is usually more sore than my legs after a day of jumping off stuff. Cleans work that stuff harder, and I think the extra explosiveness is helpful.

I can't clean as mentioned above so I do the drop snatch. Similarly amazing for stomping airs, IMHO. Explosive, eccentric, and requires your trunk stabilize a weight. And less technique/mobility required than for a full snatch. Just an idea for anyone else who can't clean.

Originally Posted by robnow

I really like incorporating what I call Frankensteins (or Truckdrivers) with bar resting on front of shoulders and arms outstretched straight ahead...or cross grip (but they cause a bit of a twist). I can't even do straps comfortably.

Exactly! I usually do that, honestly. I don't know much about lifting to know that was a thing -- I got the idea from this amazing video of Pyrros Dimas training, around the 6:50 mark he walks the bar to the rack in that "frankenstein" position. (Talk about speed, my god.)

**robnow** · 09-11-2018, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

I don't lose any sleep over it, it's a more quad dominant move and as discussed most of us are quad-heavy already.

Oh shit, NOW you've opened up a can of worms, haha. It gets technical (hip and knee angles, muscle activation) but essentially a multitude of studies have shown there is no significant difference in muscle activation between front and back squats.

And I would argue for stomping airs that DEEP squats are key (yes power cleans are deep squats but NOBODY, except for Pyrros is doing them properly) for developing both the strength in the bottom range of motion and flexibility/stability of the knee.