DPS Phantom Glide

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

Stinks.

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I'll bet a normal product release wouldn't have brought in nearly $40k in a matter of hours.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

I'll bet a normal product release wouldn't have brought in nearly $40k in a matter of hours.

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It's just skeezy for a company that sells as many $1k+ skis as they do.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

Stinks.

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Why would you risk your own money to fund an initial production run when you can risk someone else's instead?

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Originally Posted by skiitsbetter

Do skins stick to it? HF and LF wax don't.

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I listened to the Blister podcast. I'm skeptical about it generally as a replacement for wax, but they did highlight fewer issues with skins as a selling point. They said it sticks to the surface of the ski, and you don't have to worry wax globbing up your skin glue.

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Originally Posted by Mailman

Why would you risk your own money to fund an initial production run that you when you can risk someone else's instead?

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Or because the product sucks?

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you don't have to worry wax globbing up your skin glue.

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Does anybody currently worry about this?

Unless they're doing it wrong.

Edit to add... what kind of impenetrable packaging does this stuff come in ?

So is this basically deep penetrating Zardox Not Wax?

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Looks like the colder the snow, the worse it performs in comparison to wax. I like how their cold snow graph compares it to universal wax? What about those sub-zero days when the last thing you want on your bases is a universal wax.
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Yes that's my question too- needs to be compared to cold wax for cold snow and warm wax for warm snow.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

Stinks.

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Marketing YO.

Where's the MSDS? oh wait, that would expose the collusion between Zardoz, 3M, Dupont and Rustoleum.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Yes, they claim that it hardens the whole thickness of the base material... or at least to a depth that would tolerate a few grinds.

It's not a surface finish, but an alteration to the base.

If the base gets hairy and slow with time, I suppose you could still wax over it with some regularity to avoid the base grind... but then what's the point? Longer intervals between wax jobs, maybe? Would the wax bond as well as to an untreated base?

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That's sorta when the grind would be SOP

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

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Since they're supposed to ship a month from today, I doubt that they "need" to raise anything for it. It's good promotion.

Although if they'd failed to make that target (they already have), it would be great way for them to find out that the market isn't there.

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Originally Posted by nest

Typical DPS skier- highest ratio of money spent to actual skill of anyone on the mountain

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Ummm... there's a lot of competition there.
https://res.cloudinary.com/sagacity/..._PM_p6bhc1.png

The Volkl V-Werks series should be in the mix too.

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Originally Posted by The Dad

The Volkl V-Werks series should be in the mix too.

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At least they didn't take the picture in front of the family Audi.

I agree on the kickstarter bit, I'm biased because I love my RPC's but I'm going to guess this is mostly for marketing they're doing the kickstarter. A way to make a big bang this close to the start of the season. DPS has to have 35K$ sitting around in couch cushions, hell. That's like, what 10 dreamtime orders?

I'm willing to try it anyway. My question is... what if it sucks? It sounds like it soaks into bases, are your skis then trash?

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Originally Posted by bsavery

My question is... what if it sucks? It sounds like it soaks into bases, are your skis then trash?

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Yeah, that's the $64,000 question. That, and what about residual wax in existing skis?

I bought one. I figure I'll try it on a pair and see what I think. The question is whether to try it on a pair of brand new skis or a pair that's old enough that the value of the treatment is at least half the value of the skis.

Sounds like a low-viscosity liquid polymer which hardens over time. Probably something with initially low surface tension in order to use a capillary effect to soak into the sintered base material.

The uhmwpe is inert, so I doubt this stuff actually reacts with it, and any hardening of the base is likely an effect of filling the pores with a polymer rather than air or soft wax.

Reading the marketing copy in the email, it does sound like the effect wears off, and needs to be refreshed with a base grind, at which point my eyes rolled into my skull and I pressed delete.

I'm firmly sceptical. But it's probably a great way to bundle additional sales for dps...

Sent from my SM-G900F using TGR Forums mobile app

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/ivana-trump-poses-january-15-1991-in-aspen-co-aspen-a-ski-resort-town-picture-id1137777[/IMG]

https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...e-id692362639?

UHMWPE base material is crazy dense, virtually non-reactive, and has no pores of the standard mythological type.

I'd like an explanation of how the heck anything penetrates that stuff and splices itself into gajillion unit long polymers.

Inquiring minds want to know....

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

Stinks.

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Kickstarter is free marketing and free money. Double-down? Why not?

Waxing Skis is like meditation and I have not gotten yoga since I was at the bird xmas 2015 so it is simply relaxing. This seems like another way to avoid actual Ski care. Do dentists actually ski more than 30 days a season?

Sounds like you can apply wax on top. Not sure if that’s more or less effective. DPS did mention that it might be faster in racing to apply flouro on top of phantom. Not sure if thats because of high abrasion or if its because the wax is just as effective.

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Originally Posted by The Dad

Yeah, that's the $64,000 question. That, and what about residual wax in existing skis?

I bought one. I figure I'll try it on a pair and see what I think. The question is whether to try it on a pair of brand new skis or a pair that's old enough that the value of the treatment is at least half the value of the skis.

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You can try it on a pair of my skis...

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

You can try it on a pair of my skis...

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Naah I'm good.

Worth a try...

Ummm... $80 for two .5 oz packets of the stuff? I'll sit back and see if it catches on.

Actually, I take that back. I will lean a little further forward and still beat you down the hill.

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Originally Posted by spindrift

UHMWPE base material is crazy dense, virtually non-reactive, and has no pores of the standard mythological type.

I'd like an explanation of how the heck anything penetrates that stuff and splices itself into gajillion unit long polymers.

Inquiring minds want to know....

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It does have pores of it's sintered. Otherwise, nope.

Sent from my SM-G900F using TGR Forums mobile app

Somebody is digging it:

$76,123
pledged of $35,000 goal
688
backers

Yep... this is why you use Kickstarter. Gauging market reaction, using other peoples money and generating much more $$ then you would if you just launched the product itself. They aren't selling 75K of this stuff in 2 days normally...

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Originally Posted by ticketchecker

Somebody is digging it:

$76,123
pledged of $35,000 goal
688
backers

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Originally Posted by SiSt

Sounds like a low-viscosity liquid polymer which hardens over time. Probably something with initially low surface tension in order to use a capillary effect to soak into the sintered base material.

The uhmwpe is inert, so I doubt this stuff actually reacts with it, and any hardening of the base is likely an effect of filling the pores with a polymer rather than air or soft wax.

Reading the marketing copy in the email, it does sound like the effect wears off, and needs to be refreshed with a base grind, at which point my eyes rolled into my skull and I pressed delete.

I'm firmly sceptical. But it's probably a great way to bundle additional sales for dps...

Sent from my SM-G900F using TGR Forums mobile app

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Thanks!

I love my DPS. There are plenty of 5-10 year old DPS sticks that ski just about as well as on day one. Eventually you can beat their edges/sidewalls to death, but the carbon keeps the core reacting like new.

But here I gotta say, sounds like DPS found a solution to their market saturation problem with very long lived skis: "get the customer to base grind multiple times per season and our skis will finally die in time to be replaced with our next major product cycle."

Wait wait wait wait wait...you have to get a base grind to renew the treatment?!? How often?!? How is that gonna save money or time in the long run?
I gotta think that me waxing 4/5 times a season at home is no more time consuming or costly than taking my skis to shop, paying for grind, going back to shop to pick up, etc times X per season....

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Originally Posted by TripleT

Wait wait wait wait wait...you have to get a base grind to renew the treatment?!? How often?!? How is that gonna save money or time in the long run?
I gotta think that me waxing 4/5 times a season at home is no more time consuming or costly than taking my skis to shop, paying for grind, going back to shop to pick up, etc times X per season....

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They're suggesting every 30 days on snow.

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Originally Posted by The Dad

They're suggesting every 30 days on snow.

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no fucking way? That would amount to a ski likely lasting a season, maybe 1.5 depending on base thickness. Hell I barely wax my skis (once or twice a season) much less base grind every season.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1000_.jpg

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Read the PDF but have not listened to the Blister podcast.

First impression is... meh. Lots of marketing speak and little real information.

Any material scientists or chemical engineers in the house?

Sounds like the product chemically alters the base material... permanently hardening it and closing the pores that would normally entrap traditional wax.

Not inspired by the mention of "just a base grind every 30 days" to refresh the glide... uh, no.

Slower than fresh wax, but by how much?

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Wait, so we can make our skis more stiff? [emoji123]

Armada sold for $4M, and I have to assume they were a lot bigger than DPS.

These brands aren’t worth shit compared to most businesses.

After debt, taxes and typically absorption deal structure, those Armada guys were probably lucky to walk away with low to mid 6 figures.

This thread reminds me that I need to have my mechanic change the ball bearings in my flux capacitor. My mileage has been suffering.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Thanks!

I love my DPS. There are plenty of 5-10 year old DPS sticks that ski just about as well as on day one. Eventually you can beat their edges/sidewalls to death, but the carbon keeps the core reacting like new.

But here I gotta say, sounds like DPS found a solution to their market saturation problem with very long lived skis: "get the customer to base grind multiple times per season and our skis will finally die in time to be replaced with our next major product cycle."

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Which is fine if you liked them to start. They don't last any longer than any other ski of the same price.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

no fucking way? That would amount to a ski likely lasting a season, maybe 1.5 depending on base thickness. Hell I barely wax my skis (once or twice a season) much less base grind every season.

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And why do I want to make my bases harder just to grind them off? #waxtothemax

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Sounds like you can apply wax on top. Not sure if that’s more or less effective. DPS did mention that it might be faster in racing to apply flouro on top of phantom. Not sure if thats because of high abrasion or if its because the wax is just as effective.

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fluoro wax is faster by en large... works differently, for a much different duration.....

Base grind? Never, I want to keep my bases thick to avoid core shots. Ptex deeper scratches and hertel universal wax on top. It fills up the smaller scratches pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Armada sold for $4M, and I have to assume they were a lot bigger than DPS.

These brands aren’t worth shit compared to most businesses.

After debt, taxes and typically absorption deal structure, those Armada guys were probably lucky to walk away with low to mid 6 figures.

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I have to think Armada and DPS are pretty different animals. Armada was just another ski brand. Nothing particularly innovative -- all their skis were manufactured by big ski shops. DPS has a number of completely unique constructions, owns their own construction facility, also has standard layups done by a big factory and is one of the most known premium ski brands.

Number of skis sold alone doesn't equal business value.