My sarcasm meter is going off... I hope it's not a false alarm.Quote:
Originally Posted by highangle
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My sarcasm meter is going off... I hope it's not a false alarm.Quote:
Originally Posted by highangle
Why would that be sarcasm? Now, not only does the world owe the uneducated a living, but also some nice conveniently located new construction? Why don't we all just go work at the upper east side McDonalds and walk to work from our government subsidized housing on 77th and Madison?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Be honest. The Dr. dropped you when you were born. Just admit it. Let me understand your point:Quote:
Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw
You expect, simply because of market economics, for the worker class to be forced to move because richer people, the people who depend on the work of these people for their livelihood, food, or clean living conditions, want their domicile. That's OK with you. You see absolutely nothing wrong with that scenario. What if someone richer than you wants to kick you out of your building? Oh - you're a land-owner. Never mind, you have no skin in the game whatsoever.
Now cry like a bitch when they build a highway on your easement.
Aw... Trippster is so cute when he thinks he's arguing on behalf of the little guy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Basically yes. I think market economics should determine the price of housing. And no, I don't think it's inappropriate that people who perform unskilled labor are priced out of living in the neighborhoods where they work. If that doesn't suit them, best of luck making $11/hour pouring coffee in the 'hood.
I was talking about the developers.... You don't have to be a real estate developer or burger flipper. Go find something else to do if you can't make it pay.
Most of the value in a piece of real estate depends on context. Most context, hence value, of a piece of sub/urban real estate is provided by the same damn expensive codes people with narrow focus often like to bitch about.
I am always curious why the tax system never gets criticized here. Often older residents - property owners - on a fixed income get eff'd by quickly increasing property taxes (at least in Boston). If the cities cared, they could grandfather and lock prop tax rates no? Rent control seems to always crack and fall apart too (not that it exists here but look at SF). There has to be ways for "betterment" without displacement but I think cities just want to stack needed cash with rising prop tax revenues > caring about the lower and middle class residents getting pushed out.
I wouldn't disagree with that, providing there were controls in place to prevent abuse. Rent control in NYC is a scam.... But I don't see how anyone benefits for taxing an elderly home owner out of the neighborhood. That being said, in the instance where someone owns their place and the market value/taxes increase to the point that the maintenance becomes unaffordable, it's also likely to be true that the townhouse or apartment that was purchased for $70k in 1961 can now be sold for a million dollars or more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doremite
Now, while no one likes the idea of evicting an 80 year old from their rental property, fact is that that's life as a renter. Is it unpleasant? Yeah, it is. Is it right? Yeah, it is. I would agree that there should be other social support systems in place to help, but placing anti-competitive controls on the housing market isn't-t the right answer.
I remember when Miss Stein and Alice found a house in Bilignin they wished to rent for the summer. It sat high over the valley in a stand of fruit trees and had a view of Mont Blanc. Down in the valley the streams ran clear, flowers bloomed constantly, and all the children were pretty.
The only issue was the house was.occupied by a French army offjcer. Miss Stein really wanted to rent the house so she decided to use her influence in Paris to have him promoted and posted overseas. I tried to argue with her that this was a poor solution and there were certainly plenty of nice houses in Bilagrin not occupied by army officers. But arguing with Miss Stein was about as frustrating and useless as debating anything here on TRG. Afterall, he WAS going to get a promotion.
Miss Stein was successful and eventually got her summer house. The army officer was posted to Africa and soon afterwards war.broke out with Morocco. He died in a prison near Meknes while Alice made lovely pies of apricots and plums from the orchards nearby and cooled them on the window sill of what had once been his kitchen.
I am not sure if that is gentrification but I believe it is close.
Best yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway
^ Ernest needs a cell phone with spelchech and.an.adjustable.spacebar.key.
http://i.imgur.com/gRo8HYm.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw
Quote:
Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw
Wouldn't disagree. But by the same token I wouldn't look at a remediation requirement built into city codes as much more than a cost of doing business in a particular location. I'd incur increased costs developing in any historic district, why is it suddenly an anticompetitive intrusion to incur different types of increased costs to sell high-priced homes in a planned zone made profitable by other mechanisms, like historic redlining and current yuppie sprawl?
It isn't "suddenly" anticompetitive... I don't have a lot of love for most "historic" districts either. In the handful of instances in which something of significance actually exists, sure. But the benefit of trying to twist the market to protect some shit hole that's always been a shit hole, just because it's an old shit hole, is lost on me. Almost as much as my joke was lost on our resident child abuser...Quote:
Originally Posted by highangle
x2Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
.........
San Diego does this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doremite
Nice work Papa.
I've been exposed to a couple gentrified areas where I live so my $.02:
Here in ATL, just to my south is a large area called the Westside or West Midtown and apparently the first real gentrification of it was pre-recession in the early 2000s, and they mandated that a large percentage of the new mixed use development (very large shopping and condo/apartment mix that used to be a train yard/depot - now called Atlantic Station) contain Section 8/low income access. It's thriving and the only complaints I've witnessed/heard from friends that live there are the retartgangbangers that flow into the area on weekends to hang with buddies that live there and cause problems. Granted it's way more diverse than most other 'gentrified' areas of the country and the policing is very preventative so not much if anything happens, just a lot of posturing - but there is a definite white flight on weekends. The greater Westside/West Midtown area could be described as the Warehouse district of ATL so when that all got and continues to be gentrified not many residents were displaced. It's really nice seeing property values double since 2008 and having 10 of the top 20 restaurants in town a 5 minute drive from my neighborhood. Clink-clink to the author of the OP's article. I'm enjoying it.
The only downside is that I can see my most favorite dirt bar in the world eventually being razed and turned into a PDX-style 4 story mixed use development like everything else around it in the near future. That would really suck.
The other example of 'gentrification' that I can point to personally is the Over the Rhine neighborhood of downtown Cincinnati. In 2000 it was the center of race riots that made national news and shut the city down for a week. Now it's hipster haven and the turnaround has been fantastic. Prior to the change it was in the top 10 most dangerous neighborhoods per the FBI stats, now it's where you go to see mustache wax and get yer Old Fashioned made right. There's still a lot of retartgangbangers around though as the ghetto residents really have no where to go since they've been geographically and economically entrenched there for decades and murders and gunplay is way up there this year from what I've read/listened to. That said, the benefits waaaaaay outpace any detriment, it's not like the city hasn't built all new section 8 housing that has gotten shitted up a few miles to the west in the mean time.
On the whole I don't care, and I like seeing cool areas of town go through rebirth and become great again (they all were at one point no matter where we're talking about) But then again, as Hugh said, I'm an above average special poster on TGR. So get me another Brooklyn barkeep and make sure it's proper with no bitching about how much American Spirits cost around the corner compared to the shit-hole you had to move to now. :D
ETA: Funny how no one bitches about gentrification in PDX because the two black guys all got moved to Crackinmyass or Troutdale decades ago to make way for all the unique and totally different snowflakes that make up that great city. (see SE and now NE) It's all just 'cool' now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
ETA: Fucking double drunk edit.
PDX gentrification
http://www.thewire.com/national/2014...-about/357969/
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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw
Fkn munny, son.
http://www.mysticseaport.org/wp-cont...12-09-0239.jpg
A city plan would ostensibly apply to every other developer interested in an area. Seems all you're bitching about is perceived barriers to entry for budding young real estate speculators and developers trying to come up through the ranks. Table stakes are high in Manhattan too. Don't play if you can't pay.
Not bitching... I don't think everything's perfect, but I wouldn't sign up for some major overhaul of the urban planning process that creates a lot of government subsidized housing in highly desirable areas. That's really only based on an opinion that we don't, as a society, owe people a convenient lifestyle. There's no underlying agenda there... If a developer wants to put up affordable housing and thinks he can make money doing it, go for it. But we don't need a HUD project on every other block.Quote:
Originally Posted by highangle
I've watched neighborhoods go the other way, from nice family nieghborhoods safe and well kept homes to complete shit hole with absolutely no hope of ever being gentrified, my uncle would always talk about the white flight he stuck it out for a long time and then got out, kind of place the police don't even like hanging out in
I know all about this place spent some time there in 90, have not been there since, can't imagine what its like now, remember hitting the ground a few times when gun fire was way too close, had a roomate who would wander through abandon buildings and houses all the time, i was sure he wasn't going to come home eventually, always got served at bars down there even though I was 17 and 18 years old, no one cared, one kid tried to sell me crack out side my house when I told him I lived here he apolgized and was so sorry for trying to sell me drugs pretty funny shitQuote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
The Soviets had some good solutions for this. Time to dust off Marx.
Perfect. I laughed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
It's not that people don't get your jokes stfu, it's that they aren't funny.
Not too intrusive to stop them from building multifamily developments at historically high levels in our town. A Scooby Doo band aid is better than nothing, although I'd like to see more than that. My point: The opportunities that intercity developers are now exploiting arose as a result of conspiratorial racist bank redlining -- which is as non-market as you get -- but your solution now is unbridled laissez-faire capitalism to correct the ills created by systemic non-market racism? So, the minorities get completely screwed coming in and going out, and the Rich White Man once again takes the treasure, but oooooooooo how awful that the Rich White Man/s March to Manifest Destiny might be intruded by govt regulation. Okay, got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Wait, what's with the double-talk? Which side are you on Tippster?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I know. This is all really serious, and how dare I even suggest otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
You're one precious little snowflake Flip Flops... anyone told you that today?
Hold on. Regarding the first issue my point was rather easy to grasp, I thought. Razing 50 low cost units to build 30 high cost units and 5 low cost ones displaces 90% of the poorer population on that lot. Also, since my BiL is a builder of multi-unit housing I have first hand experience with his griping about those 5 units.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Steve
The second item wasn't directed at you. I think it's really shitty to claim that merely because the market says "move" that people should be forced to do so, and that these areas depend on low wage workers (from waiters/baristas/cooks/bartenders to cleaning ladies, etc.) We see this problem in every ski town. I think that a mandated number of low-income housing needs to be part of the equation, and should probably be higher than it is (referring back to your item.)
A quote from the tv show "Justified: comes to mind:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1588042/...item=qt1698907Quote:
Chief Deputy Art Mullen: Don't like rich people much, huh Raylan?
Raylan Givens: Nobody likes rich people Art.
Nobody shed a tear when they tore down Cabrini Green in Chicago. Still not sure where they put all of those people
do the poll Morans.
I lost the link in the OP, sorry no attribution...
Well ya, CA does, it is called prop 13. Bought our home close to 30 years ago. My property taxes have increased almost $1k in that period of time. Oldsters having to move because the property taxes went way up over time is BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by steepconcrete
Wait, you're complaining because your property taxes went up $1000 in 30 years? Cry me a river. Try doubling them in 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
That's not a complaint. prop 13 limits tax base increases to the increase in the CA CPI index. However, if there is a sale/change of ownership, the property gets a new tax base.
edit: it's even better than that. the increase to assessed value is limited to the minimum of CA CPI or 2%.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Not if it's inherited.Quote:
Originally Posted by klauss