Help - Bro's too long

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Originally Posted by payote

They're not +3cm, they're +3mm which is how they came marked from PMGear.

I find I'm really in the backseat in deep snow to keep the tips from diving and that makes them hard to bring around, and also puts a lot of stress on my knees. It's possible I could move them back a bit, but really, the line is already quite far back. Most likely it's just me, I need a ski that's more manageable at moderate speeds instead of the high speed sweet spot the Bros seem to have.

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Verdicts are probably going to be tougher for you than soft Bros, given your description there.

I would consider something softer like the 178cm S3 (or 186 because it's rockered on both ends). The new 179 Lhasa might work for you, given the size/shape.

G3s seems like they might work too, although I don't know a ton about their current lineup.

180 Praxis Backcountrys.

Salomon Czars in the appropriate length.

Etc.

Basically go for something relatively soft, similar in length to the Bros you're giving up, but with rocker on at least the front end.

Or sack up. :wink:

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Originally Posted by payote

They're not +3cm, they're +3mm which is how they came marked from PMGear.

I find I'm really in the backseat in deep snow to keep the tips from diving and that makes them hard to bring around, and also puts a lot of stress on my knees. It's possible I could move them back a bit, but really, the line is already quite far back. Most likely it's just me, I need a ski that's more manageable at moderate speeds instead of the high speed sweet spot the Bros seem to have.

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Payote, the 183 isn't a deep pow ski. Granted your a hell of a lot lighter than me, but still for deep pow you need something wider and likely a bit longer. The 183 is more of an everyday ski and I use it up to about 6 inches of powder. I found that I can make pretty much any turn radius I want on them (as in tight) so you don't need to go super fast on them. Just use it as an everyday ski, not a powder ski. And ya, maybe some lessons would help. I just took one last week and it helped a bunch.:wink:

Edit: if you want to sell them, put them in Gear Swap. I bought mine in pretty mint condition with some ok bindings for $300 as a FYI.

Some of the available replacement options right now...

G3 El Hombre 177 or 170, too stiff?
G3 Tonic 177
G3 Saint 170
BD Kilowatt 175
Gotamas 176 and 168

Given my inability to ski Bros, any thoughts on which of these might work?

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Originally Posted by payote

Some of the available replacement options right now...

G3 El Hombre 177 or 170, too stiff?
G3 Tonic 177
G3 Saint 170
BD Kilowatt 175
Gotamas 176 and 168

Given my inability to ski Bros, any thoughts on which of these might work?

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Honestly, if you're in the back seat trying to plane them, and want something with a little more float that's more playful in the fresh, get the 183 FAT BRO. I have both versions and can tell you it's a very different animal. VERY playful and easy to toss around in pow because of the extra width and tip rocker. Last weekend I forgot my good boots at home and so skied trees all day on them with uber-low-cuff 55 flex rental boots with no real driving issues or complaints whatsoever. Great ski and MUCH more manageable in the fresh than my traditional 183s. Just a thought.

If you think it is the ski not floating to the top that is causing you to get in the backseat than maybe you should consider a Lhasa in a 179 or 186. I would characterize my 183 as blowing through stuff rather than a surfer. If you tend to ski in the backseat get a lesson or try shimming the toes of your binders a few mm.

just to add (now I'm gonna sound like a gaper).
I have 1st gen Enforcers in a 185. I'm 6' and 180. Yeah, I get in the back seat sometimes, I'm working on it, my toe nail is getting bruised (also from icy moguls and traverses). If you get going a little, the tips pop right up. Now, I don't think a "soft" Bro's tips are as soft, let alone as big as the Nordica's, but the idea is the same, and at your height/weight, they should pop right up.
You can put your weight in your heals to smear turns in powder, but you gotta keep your shins pressed against the front of the boot.
Also, like I was telling the other guy: what boots do you have? Maybe their not stiff/forward enough?
Also, torquing your knee sounds to me like you're trying to turn the skis with you're upper body.

Now, in the end, it may still not be the right ski for you. That's always possible.:redface:

I'm on Garmont Adrenalin.

I think a lesson would be in order for sure, it's been a very long time.

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Originally Posted by payote

Some of the available replacement options right now...

G3 El Hombre 177 or 170, too stiff?
G3 Tonic 177
G3 Saint 170
BD Kilowatt 175
Gotamas 176 and 168

Given my inability to ski Bros, any thoughts on which of these might work?

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Skip the El H. Not because it's too stiff, but because it's not rockered.

Tonic might work.

Skip the Saint and definitely the Kilowatt.

176 Got sounds good.

Note the trend of the recommendations... both mine, and others.

This thread is gold. Solid gold.

edit: er, it was on page 1. Then it got legit.

Focus on that technique and make sure it's the ski and not you before investing more money. If you're sitting in the back seat too much (even in powder), you're likely to be frustrated or strained even in a rocker or more floaty ski.

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Originally Posted by LightRanger

S
176 Got sounds good.

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Only rockered Gots?

Nothing you buy will make tailgunning panic turns in deep trees easier on your knees. I'm not saying that is what you are doing, but if it is you need to stop that. Getting on a rockered ski (tip) will help with confidence and turn ability, but only if you stay forward on the ski.

I think that it's kind of funny that every post has tried to convince you that the ski isn't the problem. I wonder what kind of response you would have gotten if you had said that the ski was a Rossignol or Atomic? Of course, they're all correct. I ski 183 stiffs and I think it's possibly the best ski ever made.

However, my experience on the 183 Bro's is that they aren't the most forgiving ski when your technique breaks down. That's been good for me because it's become really obvious when I screw up and that has made me a better skier. More than anything, the skis don't put up with skiing in the backseat. As long as my hands are forward and I'm balanced then things are good, as soon as I drop my hands and get in the backseat, I'm screwed.

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Originally Posted by Skirotica

Focus on that technique and make sure it's the ski and not you before investing more money. If you're sitting in the back seat too much (even in powder), you're likely to be frustrated or strained even in a rocker or more floaty ski.

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I think this is the best advice so far. Those aren't cheap skis and there are a lot of people that love them. You don't have to love them but unless you're made of money make sure that you're not the problem.

I'm a shitty powder skier. Okay, I suck regardless of conditions. I have a new powder set up this year, a pair of G3 Manhattans. Pretty generous early rise tip on them, which has done one thing for me: given me the confidence to get the fuck out of the backseat and finally take the wheel. I love the early rise, but it's my lack of technique that I really need to deal with. The benefit of the early rise is in inspiring some confidence.

The new skis and some coaching in the soft stuff has helped me a lot. It's been said every post, but technique is the key. I went skiing a last springs with a 5'1" 110lbs woman that was on BRO192s and she skied everything on them. Open bowls and tight trees. She's a damned fine skier and could turn those skis on a dime.

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Originally Posted by payote

Some of the available replacement options right now...

G3 El Hombre 177 or 170, too stiff?
G3 Tonic 177
G3 Saint 170
BD Kilowatt 175
Gotamas 176 and 168

Given my inability to ski Bros, any thoughts on which of these might work?

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If you're willing to go that short, for pow days I highly recommend trying a pair of 175 Sumo's, mounted 4cm back from the line. (The line is waaaaay forward compared to 190 Sumos, mounted my 175s at -5 based on the center of the running length.)

They're a traditional shape and will do just fine on the groomers (other than being slow edge to edge), but are very light for their size, especially the 2008 wrestler graphic model. They're super fat and quite soft, and basically drop into a rockered ski shape the second you get into deep snow. At 165 lbs the amount of pop out of pow turns is amazing, I've never been on something so maneuverable in tight trees. Put my Pontoons on eBay soon as I got home after the first day on the Sumos, and ordered a pair of 190 Sumos for more stability at speed. (Wish they had something in between the 175 and the 190, but the 190s work fine if you let them run.)

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Originally Posted by Buke

I think that it's kind of funny that every post has tried to convince you that the ski isn't the problem. I wonder what kind of response you would have gotten if you had said that the ski was a Rossignol or Atomic? Of course, they're all correct. I ski 183 stiffs and I think it's possibly the best ski ever made.

However, my experience on the 183 Bro's is that they aren't the most forgiving ski when your technique breaks down. That's been good for me because it's become really obvious when I screw up and that has made me a better skier. More than anything, the skis don't put up with skiing in the backseat. As long as my hands are forward and I'm balanced then things are good, as soon as I drop my hands and get in the backseat, I'm screwed.



I think this is the best advice so far. Those aren't cheap skis and there are a lot of people that love them. You don't have to love them but unless you're made of money make sure that you're not the problem.

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I said that in the end, it might not be the right ski. However, when he's talking about getting torque on his knees, that indicates there is something wrong with the pilot.

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Originally Posted by Buke

More than anything, the skis don't put up with skiing in the backseat. As long as my hands are forward and I'm balanced then things are good, as soon as I drop my hands and get in the backseat, I'm screwed

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^This about sums it up for me.

I had a good day with them this morning, focused on staying forward and they powered through the variable conditions of powder with occasional ice and crud at unexpected moments. I'm getting on board with the challenge of learning to ski these puppies properly.

That said, I have the opportunity to make a switch to Dynafit on a 176 Gotama (07-08) for neutral cash. With a non-rockered Got at that length am I going to be in the same boat anyway? Would they be any more forgiving when I inevitably do end up in the backseat?

p.s. thanks for the quality input after a slow, yet humorous, start.

It ain't the horse it's the cowboy. Stick with the bros.

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Originally Posted by johngenx

The new skis and some coaching in the soft stuff has helped me a lot. It's been said every post, but technique is the key. I went skiing a last springs with a 5'1" 110lbs woman that was on BRO192s and she skied everything on them. Open bowls and tight trees. She's a damned fine skier and could turn those skis on a dime.

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Tell her to drop me a line!

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Originally Posted by payote

^This about sums it up for me.

I had a good day with them this morning, focused on staying forward and they powered through the variable conditions of powder with occasional ice and crud at unexpected moments. I'm getting on board with the challenge of learning to ski these puppies properly.

That said, I have the opportunity to make a switch to Dynafit on a 176 Gotama (07-08) for neutral cash. With a non-rockered Got at that length am I going to be in the same boat anyway? Would they be any more forgiving when I inevitably do end up in the backseat?

p.s. thanks for the quality input after a slow, yet humorous, start.

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This is TGR, you know you have to hear shit to get to the goods.:wink: anyways, do you wants Dynafit bindings, do you have the right boots? If no, fuck it and stick with the Bros as some nice boots will set you back $$ and the length difference is what, 2 inches, one forward and one at the tail, so BFD in my simple mind. We are the same height and I have no issues with my 183s, but they are my everyday ski, not my powder ski. For light pow I use 190 Back County's. For the deep stuff, 196 Lhasa Pows, but I weight 200lbs:eek: the Bros were money from the first few runs on them. They ended up replacing some Dynastar Skis I loved, because they made a wider variety of turn sizes, were better in bumps and have more pop to them, as the Dstars are just sic damp skis. Again, it is likely the driver, not the ski. At Mammoth you can take workshop lessons for cheap. It is typically me and one other person or sometimes is a private for 2.5 hours for $130+tip. I started taking one a month this year and it has made a big difference so far this season.