AWD Sedan vs. Compact Crossover SUV

Actually, there are a lot of good compact SUVs. But if you want the best gas mileage, they're out of the picture, because even a small 4-cylinder engine can't make up for the crappy aerodynamics versus a sedan or wagon.

Example: the Honda Accord and 2WD Honda Element both have a 2.4L 4 cylinder engine. With automatics, the Element gets 27 MPH highway, and the Accord gets 34 MPG highway. Even the V6 Accord gets 29 MPG highway.

The CR-V is shorter than the Element and gets better gas mileage - about 30 MPG highway. AWD loses you 1-2 MPG in most any car.

My truck is 2WD. At the time I got it, I didn't ski enough to make the extra $3K for 4WD (and 2 MPG less) worth it. I'd decide differently now, but I can't afford a new vehicle now either.

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The CR-V is shorter than the Element and gets better gas mileage - about 30 MPG highway.

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I'm obviously not a fan of the CR-V, but I can attest to it doing reasonably well on gas. Again, the driving experience sucks--while it is not a straight comparison (my Volvo is 2.4 5 cylinder and needs higher octane gas), the difference in acceleration and the general feel of the engine in the Volvo and the Honda is probably what the difference between any Audi/most of the Subaru and a Honda will be like. The Element, at least in terms of space, is a much better comparison to a wagon.

You mentioned you drove a 240sx previously. I know the stock engine is not particularly speedy, but sitting in anything tall is going to suck after a car like that. A Subaru really seems to make a sense. I have friend who is driving around an old legacy (a wagon, but if you're really opposed to this, it need not be) with a manual transmission. He beats on it and generally enjoys it.

When you start needing clearance, I just can't picture something like a RAV4 or CR-V really cutting compared to an actual truck, and that the potential advantage of the extra height just isn't worth the consequences of the entire package. Maybe I'm wrong. It sounds like you need a quiver. Garage. Whatever.

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Originally Posted by IGigron

But it's a bit girly in the interior which is why the Mrs uses it mostly.

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So what exactly makes an interior girly?

I looked at the new 2007 RAV4 and the CR-V over the weekend and they are both very nice. The Honda wins for overall fit and finish, but the power of the optional V6 on the Toyota (with still good mileage) is tempting.

The only way to go is Idris' way.

New or used, doesn't matter. THE ORIGINAL SUV....

http://www.autogaleria.pl/tapety/img..._2004_02_s.jpg

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Originally Posted by Spats

I'd drive the diesel if I could get it, but we haven't had low sulfur diesel fuel until this year. I'm hoping we can get some of these great European diesel cars and trucks, but because of all the other Americans who think they need to tow a horse trailer, I'm not holding my breath.

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Sorry spats a couple of corrections:

1. The US has had LSD for more than a decade. The new standard is Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel.
2. One of the prime barriers to foreign deisel engine imports (beyond American prejudices toward them) is that the US has more stringent diesel emissions rules than elsewhere. The fullsize diesel pickup market is not one of the barriers to the entrance of small efficient diesel engines.

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Originally Posted by serge944

Audi's are not known for stellar fuel economy, especially older ones with CIS injection.

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A4 3.0: around 22-24mpg
S4: 20ish

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Originally Posted by wanghoeby

Yeah, I know, yet another AWD thread… I’ve done my searching so hopefully no need for flaming.

After my last summer of taking my Nissan 240sx to too many places that a RWD sports coupe shouldn’t ever find itself in, I’ve decided to upgrade my auto a few years ahead of schedule. In light of the vast amount of back-roads I’ll be driving on, an AWD is a must, in addition to getting decent mileage (at least high 20’s) so no trucks or turbos. Fitting all my shit into a coupe wasn’t much fun either so a mid-sized sedan will also be necessary. Some personal preferences would be to get something with less than 100k and as new as possible while obviously keeping cost in mind. Oh yeah, no wagons, nothing personal.

My current ideas:

2000+ Subaru Legacy Sedan

Compact SUV i.e. Escape, Vue, Tribute…
Unfortunately this option is slightly out of price range

Purchase an older, cheaper Audi and keep the extra cash for the inevitable cost associated with one.


Am I forgetting anything else?

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The vast amount of "back country" roads I've driven on (talking literally thousands of miles), I've used 4wd a few times and usually that is in some nasty ass conditions where I didn't want to get out anyways. If you are just accessing trailheads then you can pretty much get anywhere with something with decent clearance, 2wd and decent driving skills. Oh, and slow the fuck down. I drive to places in my 2wd Ranger that all of the urbanites in their SUV's can't believe I got to.

Now, if you are rallying, thats a whole different ball game.

If I were you I'd just get the subie sedan and be done with it.

[QUOTE=The AD;1062922]So what exactly makes an interior girly?
/QUOTE]
It's hard to describe exactly but to me everything is smaller - smallish hands, seats are shorter, steering wheel is thinner etc. I'm around 6-2 220 and it feels a little ... little. Not headroom - plenty of that. We got the Limited version which is nicer inside. We're happy with it generally. The hp/mileage numbers are real and hard to beat. It tows 3500 pounds too. I believe the 07 even gets better mileage than my 1/2 year 06. Probably changed the gearing a little.

The Audi interior is nicer (bought it used off a lease however, couldn't afford the $15K premium for a new one :(. All in all the Audi handles much better, had a few costly maintenance items but it's been reliable.

But you're comparing luxury car vs midrange Japanese SUV. The other thing if you're looking at SUVs are the KIAs and Hyundais - well tested for safety and quality (better than Japanese in many cases).

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Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster

A4 3.0: around 22-24mpg
S4: 20ish

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Downhill? I don't care much for EPA figures. My 90 200 quattro averages about 18mpg. Based on edmunds.com, people are averaging 18.4 for an a4 3.0 cvt.

Your s4 data I could care less about since the engines range from 2.3liter I5s to 4.2liter v8s... Either way, "20ish" isn't happening.

Audis, in general, are heavy-ass cars; Subaru's are much lighter. A 1990 Subaru Legacy awd wagon is ~2850 lbs, whereas the 1990 Audi 200 (even though a little larger) comes in at ~3450 lbs. The newer Audis are substantially more portly. F=MA.

I have a 00 a6 2.7T and get 23 hwy. My old 1990 v8 got around 19.

Now THAT was a heavy car ;)

btw - heavy isn't necessarily a bad thing. Weight tracks mortality inversely. It's not generally good for mileage though.

Ok, so I'm a bit lucky with a car allowance from my new job or at least I feel that way.

I have a V6 Taco 4x4 that I own and I love it. I bought it with 47k mile and 107k now and it hasn't been in the shop accept for normal maintenance. It gets 17 when pulling a trailer with a raft or snowmobiles and 20 if I keep it under 70 with no payload. It also has a 2" lift (burlier springs and a leveling kit) and a steel ladder rack. It got in the low 20's before I put those on.

With my car allowance I bought an '02 Passat W8 sedan with 4motion. This car is VW's answer to an A6 for little less money. It rails on slick roads and has plenty of power (more than I need) with a 4 liter. It gets 23 ish in town and 26 on the freeway. It will do 29 or 30 if I keep it under 65. Those numbers are with a rocket box. It has been in the shop some since I've owned it but mostly from a mouse that found it's way in while it was in the auction yard.

Both are great cars for what they are made for. It's like having a quiver. If you don't need clearance or towing, VW's 4 motion is the same thing as the Audi Quattro and is sick.

Gas Mileage on wifey's Audi A6 3.0 Diesel:

in Town
me: 23 mpg
wifey: 25-26 mpg

cross country roads
me: 25-26 mpg
wifey: 28-29 mpg

highway
me: 18 mpg (full throttle, constantly)
wifey: 27 mpg (cruising speed)

Now does that tell you guys anything?:rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by Tony

The only way to go is Idris' way.

New or used, doesn't matter. THE ORIGINAL SUV....

http://www.autogaleria.pl/tapety/img..._2004_02_s.jpg

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"Original" -- ??? :the_finge


Not even close...

16mpg baby!!! Woohooo!!!

http://www.jeepwarehouse.com/images/05RubUnlim.jpg

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Originally Posted by Hicks

Gas Mileage on wifey's Audi A6 3.0 Diesel:

in Town
me: 23 mpg
wifey: 25-26 mpg

cross country roads
me: 25-26 mpg
wifey: 28-29 mpg

highway
me: 18 mpg (full throttle, constantly)
wifey: 27 mpg (cruising speed)

Now does that tell you guys anything?:rolleyes2

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Dude shut up with your EPA figures. :D

Mrs. Comish's Audi 3.0 Manual gets around 26ish to Mammoth going 75mph
My Audi 2.0T gets around 28-30mph on the highway.

Not too bad...

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

"Original" -- ??? :the_finge


Not even close...

16mpg baby!!! Woohooo!!!

http://www.jeepwarehouse.com/images/05RubUnlim.jpg

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Hmmmm, yeah. Pretty comfy and warm when you are driving in the middle of a blizzard and its -20º outside.

Sorry bro, Land Rover is the Shitze.

http://www.landrover.com/experien/en...16E683EFA9.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tony

Hmmmm, yeah. Pretty comfy and warm when you are driving in the middle of a blizzard and its -20º outside.

Sorry bro, Land Rover is the Shitze.

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:rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by Tony

http://www.landrover.com/experien/en...16E683EFA9.jpg

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http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...q_parmesao.jpg

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Originally Posted by Idris

Reading the mpg's in this thread makes me cringe. My landrover discovery diesel gets 30-32 mpg and is considered very bad. AWD waggons here get 50-65mpg, small AWD cars get 70+, but will still drag 4 + ski gear up skifield road.

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You must be doing your metric conversion wrong... a diesel smartcar barely gets that mileage.

A TDI golf gets in the high 40s and that's without the friction of AWD. With a diesel hybrid you could hope for a 25% increase, but they won't be out for awhile.

Just get a subaru impreza wagon (or "outback sport") and call it a day. Awesome in the snow, PLENTY of engine for a car that small, and the best AWD gas mileage you'll find in the US on a used car.

I had a forester and it was the perfect ski vehicle, but it was new and getting all scratched up from access roads and city street parking... now I have a 20-year-old 4-cyl 4runner. It only gets 20mpg, but my insurance was halved, it cost pennies and I don't feel bad when I beat the fuck out of it.

Last note: you can get almost anywhere the roads are open (up to about 6" of snow, or solid ice) with front wheel drive and snow tires or chains. If you're just trying to get to the resort, any old honda civic will get you there. The AWD only helps when accellerating (stuck in mud/snow, going uphill, accellerating out of a skid).

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Originally Posted by flip

The AWD only helps when accellerating (stuck in mud/snow, going uphill, accellerating out of a skid).

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Mainly the AWD gets you past the chain control checkpoints Caltrans puts up every time the road gets wet.

I still cringe everytime I see some guy at the mountain who's so proud of his brand new STi or RS4 wagon. Those dumbasses take one hit from the gravel in the snowplow, and realize how shitty it is to own a 30+K car that looks the same as all the 5k cars rolling up there. But hey, they might pass a couple cars in the pain train, because they usually aren't up early enough to beat the rush.

With car tabs and insurance so cheap in WA, I'm thinking of getting a cheap 1.8 or 2.2 impreza, and stripping it down to nothing. Full rally steeze.

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

:rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2

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Tony you JONG....

Landdozers blow, unless you're trying gain steeze you know you don't have.


And this is the ORIGINAL....what started the whole shibang.

FCKN BANTAM.....biatch not some british shit

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Originally Posted by BakerBoy

With car tabs and insurance so cheap in WA, I'm thinking of getting a cheap 1.8 or 2.2 impreza, and stripping it down to nothing. Full rally steeze.

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With a set of tires worth more than the actual vehicle. Mounted on cheapo steel wheels, of course :)

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Originally Posted by Blatant

Tony you JONG....

Landdozers blow, unless you're trying gain steeze you know you don't have.


And this is the ORIGINAL....what started the whole shibang.

FCKN BANTAM.....biatch not some british shit

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Ummn... The key word Tony used was SUV... Not 4WD:D.

New Disco is a posh vehicle with some capabilities in rugged terrain, Wrangler (or CJ?, or naturally Willy's) and older Disco plus Defenders (or Series?) are real 4WD cars...