Guinea Pigging the Scarpa Spirit 3

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Originally Posted by upallnight

hey, meadow skipper -- the adrenalin's been on the feet of people i know for longer than a year...and the denali is hardly a 'complete overhaul'...the've just been tweaking it for years.

anyhoo -- it's not so much about the # of boots (but, yes, there are 1-buckle AT boots available, too) as it is about how the spirit 3 handles the lower buckle and gives it the efficacy of two lower buckles w/o the weight.

i know you were just poking fun of that one comment by SC. don't want people to lose the idea here that it's about implementation, not specs.

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Yeah, yeah - your points are well taken and the number of buckles isn't as relevant as the configuration. I'd thought the thread was pretty much done or I wouldn't have jacked it as much, but it's now drifted back to informational.

But just to jack/drift a little more, I'm all about three buckles. I've been kind of leery of the Scarpa T1 going to four buckles and messing with the rocker and flex, so I picked up a pair of cheap spare bumblebee style T1 shells in my size so that I can keep using the lighter older boot for bc.

Those 2 are the only options in an AT other than my Lowa Struktura Lights, which are TOO short in the calf and too soft for me. Scarpa makes one other in a 32 but it looks to be even more noodly than the Struktura lt's. size 15+ feet are hard to find at boots , let alone anything worthwhile in ski boots. want high performance of an upper end alpine boot with the lightness of an at...comfort and performance are what i am looking for. a little bit more comfort over performance is acceptable, but don't want to lose TOO much performance as i ski burlier AT setups, right now a set of big daddys (1st gen) with freerides and soon to be added is a pair of 188 stiff bro's with freerides.

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Originally Posted by upallnight

hey, dk--
are those really the only options for AT boots?

the reason i made the comments above is that those boots are heavy (about as heavy as a full-on alpine boot) and stiff (particularly in the ankle), making walking less pleasant.

they do have a bit of vibram on the sole, which means they will grip a little better than an alpine boot -- but the overall facility in hiking, rock scrambling, etc. will not compare to lighter-weight options that still ski well.

it could be that they work just fine for you, and if you're a "bigger" guy you may want/prefer/need something quite stiff. just don't expect them to feel like air on your feet. other lighter AT boots can shave pounds off your feet.

just my $0.02.

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Originally Posted by hemas

Hey UAN, which category you say the Sprit4 ia then ...

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to be honest, i'm not sure why the spirit 4 exists -- probably for the US market that feels they *need* the 4th buckle and are too shy to buy the spirit 3.

then again, i've not skied either one so consider my opinion in that light.

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Originally Posted by dk_alaskan

Those 2 are the only options in an AT other than my Lowa Struktura Lights, which are TOO short in the calf and too soft for me. Scarpa makes one other in a 32 but it looks to be even more noodly than the Struktura lt's. size 15+ feet are hard to find at boots , let alone anything worthwhile in ski boots. want high performance of an upper end alpine boot with the lightness of an at...comfort and performance are what i am looking for. a little bit more comfort over performance is acceptable, but don't want to lose TOO much performance as i ski burlier AT setups, right now a set of big daddys (1st gen) with freerides and soon to be added is a pair of 188 stiff bro's with freerides.

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i hear you. garmonts only go up to 30.5. ugh.

side note: just noticed on garmont's web site that they are making a "race" alpine boot now (or planning to). hm.

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Originally Posted by upallnight

to be honest, i'm not sure why the spirit 4 exists -- probably for the US market that feels they *need* the 4th buckle and are too shy to buy the spirit 3.

then again, i've not skied either one so consider my opinion in that light.

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True, the funny thing is though that you CAN get the Spirit4 from Yurp... But not from the States (this year/season, I mean):the_finge.

Let's not write off the Spirit4 til people ski it. The real issue is whether it has thicker plastic and skis better than the Spirit3 (w/o giving up too much in the walking department). I tried on the Spirit3's last year and thought they were significantly softer than the Mega Rides, although people seem to be claiming otherwise this year. I agree that the 4th buckle is really not in the right place but buckles are pretty light these days, and it allows them to use a wider plastic thing to attach it to so maybe it will be worth more than it looks. I, for one, am really glad they are making stiffer Dynafit compatable boots and the Spirit4 may be more than just a Spirit3 with an extra buckle.

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

But just to jack/drift a little more, I'm all about three buckles. I've been kind of leery of the Scarpa T1 going to four buckles and messing with the rocker and flex, so I picked up a pair of cheap spare bumblebee style T1 shells in my size so that I can keep using the lighter older boot for bc.

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http://akamai.backcountrystore.com.e...0016/T1BKR.jpg

I for one am pretty excited about the new Scarpas especially to the extent that the T1 turns out to be basically as stiff as the old Traces (I tour enough that despite wanting it bad I can't justify the disco boots). I don't think I'll miss the rocker (but I don't have rocker launch either...) and hope that the fourth buckle turns out to be useful...you'll notice that it is not on the forefoot.

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

I've been kind of leery of the Scarpa T1 going to four buckles and messing with the rocker and flex, so I picked up a pair of cheap spare bumblebee style T1 shells in my size so that I can keep using the lighter older boot for bc.

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Good to know you and I are a little closer to one another than I am with my "Alpine Ski Boot with a Walk Mode" brethren. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the folks ripping sick lines on these burly boots with interchangable soles, nor do I have anything against tele skiers. But I'm probably similar to you, MS, in that I prefer a good touring boot that also provides solid downhill performance (good way to classify the old T1 bumble bees, no?). But I'm noticing the primary trend in tele is to provide a very solid downhill performing boot, regardless of implications on the skin track. As evidence, I think the new scarpa T1 and TRace look a lot like the Tornado with a bellow (see Lemonboy's post above). What's funny is that they are now making some serious progress on the other side of the tele gear with the frictionless O1 and Ascent bindings. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of tele folks start looking for a boot that is more like the bumble bees to give them a great set up in conjunction with these hinged bindings for both the up and down. On the AT front, there has been a huge push towards the adrenaline, endorphine, testoserene(!) type of boots. But that just ain't my bag anymore, baby. So I'm most interested in the other trend in AT which happens to be the 3 buckle, strong on the downhill, yet light as the Matrix - Spirit3. I'm into early AM trailheads, with long hauls hopefully leading to big lines away from the crowds. When you consider this type of travel, the AT technology is ahead of the current Tele technology. and dats all.

Re: the new T1s - I think you may be right SC, at least about the new ones looking like a Tornado and the current tele boot development trend. Last spring or summer I read a review somewhere (and right now I can't remember where) that the new T1s have a stiffer, more hinged bellows flex than the Bumblebees, and that was when I started searching for a deal on the B-b shells. The new ones may turn out to be sliced bread, but for now I'm going into a holding pattern, which reminds me about how some people are about the classic Raichle Flexons.

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Originally Posted by Sierra Cement

I'm into early AM trailheads, with long hauls hopefully leading to big lines away from the crowds. When you consider this type of travel, the AT technology is ahead of the current Tele technology. and dats all.

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I share your goals, but I'm hooked on the tele feeling. FWIW, I'm keeping conversion to AT as an option for my old age.

It's funny to compare this thread to the Burly AT gear thread.

LB, time will tell about the new T1s' buckles, but rocker doesn't bother me and I suspect it makes it easier to hike them.

fyi- it looks like the new T1 is ~3oz lighter than the old ones :)

re: rocker + touring bindings I imagine you'll find that it is the rockerless boots that benefit more from the hinge bindings than rockered boots. A rockerless boot should theoretically at least engage the bellows sooner than a rockered.

as for the hike on the rockerless I think that skinning will be very similar, bootpacking will be improved and hard ground slightly worse. Hard ground hiking is 1.5% of my hiking time so....

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

fyi- it looks like the new T1 is ~3oz lighter than the old ones :)

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The new Ascent binding is ~3 oz heavier than the old Targa, and we know it tours better. I'm looking forward to hearing how the new tele boots and tele bindings tour together this year. Stiffer bellow sounds like an improvement to me too.

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

fyi- it looks like the new T1 is ~3oz lighter than the old ones :)

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No shit? Somehow that factoid had eluded me. And just when I had my gear lust under control...

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

re: rocker + touring bindings I imagine you'll find that it is the rockerless boots that benefit more from the hinge bindings than rockered boots. A rockerless boot should theoretically at least engage the bellows sooner than a rockered.

as for the hike on the rockerless I think that skinning will be very similar, bootpacking will be improved and hard ground slightly worse. Hard ground hiking is 1.5% of my hiking time so....

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Well, report back on the performance, but my spring skiing (May & June) in the central-southern Rockies has been a lot of hard ground time.

the 3oz comes from backcountry's weights so TTFWIW. Probably the result of the same injection tech discussed about the S3 here.

as for hard ground time: I'm in the spring sneakers camp preferring to backpack boots.

as for the touring bindings I'll be passing although depending on how the rocker is I might start putting my linkenz into "tour" mode which I usually don't.

sorry for the jack Yoss.

Back to business.... I fondled a pair of Spirit 3's and Spirit 4's... There didn't seem to be any difference that I could feel nor see. The importer was also clueless and said the only difference he could think of, would be the ~100 grams that the Spirit 4 is heavier (4th buckle)...

So, it seems that Scarpa is playing the mind game with them Spirit's... Same boot and different perception on what the boot is used/capable of.

I tried on the Spirit3 MegaRide and Matrix tonight.

Spirit 3 flet the stiffest of the three on the in-store flexing.

The MegaRide felt almost as stiff, but the shorter cuff gave it a much different feel.

Matrix was much much softer.

I'd really like to ski these with the stiff Tornado tongue. The Scarpa fit was really good for my foot. Until I tried these on I was leaning towards MegaRides for my Dynafir boots. But now I am hunting for a deal on the Spirit3's. Anyone got a connection on a pair of cheap 27.0's?

Shirk - was the Spirit 3 significantly higher volume in the forefoort compared to the Megaride? Same fit as the Matrix? I know it can be difficult to compare garmont vs scarpa fit due to very different liners, but what were your impressions of fit? Are the stiff Tornado tongues supposed to fit perfectly with the Spirits, and can you even get a pair of them?

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Originally Posted by hemas

Back to business.... I fondled a pair of Spirit 3's and Spirit 4's... There didn't seem to be any difference that I could feel nor see.

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I checked these out in Zermatt a couple of weeks ago and also couldn't tell any difference between the two, other than the extra buckle.

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Originally Posted by wilcox510

Shirk - was the Spirit 3 significantly higher volume in the forefoort compared to the Megaride? Same fit as the Matrix? I know it can be difficult to compare garmont vs scarpa fit due to very different liners, but what were your impressions of fit? Are the stiff Tornado tongues supposed to fit perfectly with the Spirits, and can you even get a pair of them?

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Most volume would have been the Matrix, then the Spirit, then the MegaRide.

The lace up liner in the MegaRide was a POS.

The Tornado tongues are a direct swap. No clue on availability.

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Originally Posted by shirk

The lace up liner in the MegaRide was a POS.

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They change significantly when baked.

I hate the added fiddle of doing the things up but so far they've been good to me and my feet - far better than the liners in older g-rides I was using.

Boots are in hand, testing will begin right after Thanksiving.

Step 1:

Old Red Denali with Flexon Toungue vs. New Spirit 3
177 R.EX with Yellow/Gray Freerides

Tests old Red vs. new Spirit, on medium waist ski

Step 2:

New Spirit 3
1 177 R.EX with Yellow/Gray Freeride
1 177 R.EX with Comfort

Tests Freeride vs. Comfort on medium waist ski

Step 3:

Old Red Denali with Flexon Toungue vs. New Spirit 3
180 Heli Daddy with Yellow/Gray Freeride

Tests old Red vs. new Spirit, wider waist ski

:D

I bought a pair of Tornado tongues from Scarpa USA for my Spirit 3's. Result = way stiffer. Too stiff for me in fact. Actually got shin bang, and touring in them is not very fun. But they ski great and if you're willing to sacrifice the touring comfort I'm sure this is the stiffest Dynafit compatible option out there.

BTW the tongues were around $20.

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Originally Posted by ccl

I bought a pair of Tornado tongues from Scarpa USA for my Spirit 3's. Result = way stiffer. Too stiff for me in fact. Actually got shin bang, and touring in them is not very fun. But they ski great and if you're willing to sacrifice the touring comfort I'm sure this is the stiffest Dynafit compatible option out there.

BTW the tongues were around $20.

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This I like to hear.

Cletus you must have some days on these. Lets hear the review.

Only 1 so far, but I am to fix that in the next two weeks.
Stay tuned.
So far, so good. No question, they ski better than the old reds for me.

I'll do the full review soon.

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

fyi- it looks like the new T1 is ~3oz lighter than the old ones :)

re: rocker + touring bindings I imagine you'll find that it is the rockerless boots that benefit more from the hinge bindings than rockered boots. A rockerless boot should theoretically at least engage the bellows sooner than a rockered.

as for the hike on the rockerless I think that skinning will be very similar, bootpacking will be improved and hard ground slightly worse. Hard ground hiking is 1.5% of my hiking time so....

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A: walking on flat (not a bootpack) on rockerless boots sucks at first.
B: they're definitely lighter than my bumblebees
C: i only ski bomber bishops these days but there is no difference between the rockered and rockerless boots in them (mostly the design of the binding fixes that) rockerless engage slightly earlier, not by much though.

Bump.........

Got a couple of days on some Spirit 3. Awesome love them! If you wear a Denali and want a new boot or just Dynafit, do it! Spirits (in my opinion, I wear a 26) fit, ski, and tour just like my red Denali TT. When I first tried them on and walked around the house, I felt they had a bigger feel, more spacious. I got a little nervous thinking I need to get a smaller size. But I put my older, MOLDED, liner in the Spirit........Oh baby! Couldn't even tell I was in a new boot. They do look taller, in pretty much every way, than the Denali TT. And the new liner looks and feels stiffer then my old one, but maybe that's because they are new. Pretty stoked, shouldn't need to buy boots for many years!!!!!!! Now its time to start trading or selling some Freerides for Dynafit bindings.