Poaching Wilderness- Ever done it??

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Originally Posted by Telenater

I'd love to meet up with you sometime (sometime after I get a replacement suspension bracket that I appear to have broken on the Rubicon trail last sunday)..

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What kind of bike is it? Not sure what you mean by suspension bracket but maybe a swinglink? Like a rotating piece that the shock is attached to?

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Originally Posted by Telenater

I have no doubt that a single rider on a trail in a wilderness area will have a negligible impact when they ride properly. That's not the issue. I believe that the negative will created by hikers seeing mountain bike tracks where they shouldn't be will reduce the willingness of land managers to work with the mountain biking community as a whole for access and trail creation/maintenance.

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That is a very good point. But like I said, I'm pretty sure literally no one even touches some of these trails.

It's just kind of a sore subject when sections like the TRT from baldy to mt rose were ridden for years before the bike provision. Plus the countless miles of trails on the backside of mammoth, north and south that were legal bike rides. That provision pretty much eliminated mountain biking in that area. I mean what's there now? Rock creek, mammoth rock, some blown out sand pit xc skiing trails and the exclusivity of the ski area.

It's selfish I know. But in a way it also might be seen as an expressed need for another designation within the roadless area realm that literally means, non-motorized, non-development, non-logging etc. Not "hiking, and horses only". Bikers for the most part dig nature too, but they've been ostracized over this issue.

Anyway.......I do agree with what you've said, just maybe not to the point where I believe it's a threat to legitimizing our cause. I don't ride on heavily traveled corridors like echo to aloha or anything specifically for the reasons you've stated. But when networks of trails exist that are so far off the beaten path are deemed illegal for a completely ass backwards reason, I'll choose to ignore them. I'm not roosting up corners, taking 15lb shits in the woods, churning up soil with my hooves, or puking 2 stroke exhaust around pristene reservoirs. And in my mind I'm not riding anywhere that's high profile enough to cause our sport any sort of jeapardy. That's the last thing I want. But I do want other bikers to know why they're excluded. It's bs and it's about to get worse in california. If we're ignored, then I've got no problem ignoring the designation (to a point).

just my .04 cents

EDIT: I'll also be the first to admit, my knowledge/opinions are only relevant to what I know in california and nevada.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

What kind of bike is it? Not sure what you mean by suspension bracket but maybe a swinglink? Like a rotating piece that the shock is attached to?

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No, it's a machined metal bracket that surrounds the body of the shock. I stripped the threads out that are used to tighten it around the shock body, and gettting to it to helicoil the area that needs it would be tough.

The bike is an old Santa Cruz Tazmon. I'm in the process of ordering a new bracket from Risse Racing up in Redding (who manufactures the shock and the bracket).

Edit: And, yes, I agree that some of the Wilderness protections are contradictory, and have been extended to large areas of land that don't need quite that much protection.

I've talked with several members of the USFS who've said that they wish that there were an intermediate level that permitted any non-motorized recreation (ie allowing biking, hanggliding, parasailing) and who say they've run into similar sentiments in other agencies. Unfortunately, the Wilderness act doesn't allow much freedom of interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Telenater

No, it's a machined metal bracket that surrounds the body of the shock. I stripped the threads out that are used to tighten it around the shock body, and gettting to it to helicoil the area that needs it would be tough.

The bike is an old Santa Cruz Tazmon. I'm in the process of ordering a new bracket from Risse Racing up in Redding (who manufactures the shock and the bracket).

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Oh yeah.......I know what you're talking about. Risse makes good stuff, I'm sure that'll work fine.

I was always curious about those bikes as to whether or not that bracket was needed. Both ends of the shock are still mounted with bolts right?

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Originally Posted by Telenater

I've talked with several members of the USFS who've said that they wish that there were an intermediate level that permitted any non-motorized recreation (ie allowing biking, hanggliding, parasailing) and who say they've run into similar sentiments in other agencies. Unfortunately, the Wilderness act doesn't allow much freedom of interpretation.

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The Roadless Area Conservation Rule? Anyway, I agree that we need an intermediary protections (and reasonable regulations for motorized users). The number of people recreating on public lands is growing and, more importantly, their skill level and the quality of their equipment is improving dramatically. We’ve definitely encountered a legislative and regulatory lag. But, I don’t expect any relief from the current Congress, they are caught in a public lands time warp and think it’s the 19th century.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Oh yeah.......I know what you're talking about. Risse makes good stuff, I'm sure that'll work fine.

I was always curious about those bikes as to whether or not that bracket was needed. Both ends of the shock are still mounted with bolts right?

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Yes, and the bolts on that mount to the center bracket are supposed to be "finger tight". So they can't be terribly important. The movement between the clamp and the shock makes a disconcerting metal on metal rubbing sound though. Enough so that I won't be riding it on anything rough until I can replace it.

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Originally Posted by Greydon Clark

But, I don’t expect any relief from the current Congress, they are caught in a public lands time warp and think it’s the 19th century.

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Shit are you kidding?

After snowmobile parks and horizon to horizon condos go up in every wilderness area in the country, who's going to notice a few bike trails?;)

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Originally Posted by Telenater

Yes, and the bolts on that mount to the center bracket are supposed to be "finger tight". So they can't be terribly important. The movement between the clamp and the shock makes a disconcerting metal on metal rubbing sound though. Enough so that I won't be riding it on anything rough until I can replace it.

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Maybe it's to relieve sideloading on the shock? Other than that it seems like a hindrance to the natural swing it on the damper that gets imparted through the swingarm movement. Anyway, I'm sure risse will do a good job. I've been happy with everything I've gotten from them as far as machined bits.

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Originally Posted by f2f

ANON-505,

a very interesting position that hits close to home can be found here:

http://www.surgent.net/highpoints/nm/sandoval.html

the guy poached Redondo Peak at Sandoval County. the write-up and his justification for doing it are thoughtful.

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Missed this post earlier.

Actually, I've been up there (legally and on official buisness of the VCNP).

Amazing area no doubt about that.

The restrictions on travel up Redondo Peak were put into place at the request of the Jemez tribe who consider it to be sacred ground.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Maybe it's to relieve sideloading on the shock? Other than that it seems like a hindrance to the natural swing it on the damper that gets imparted through the swingarm movement. Anyway, I'm sure risse will do a good job. I've been happy with everything I've gotten from them as far as machined bits.

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Actually, it probably is somewhat redundant, but the frame was designed very early in the development pattern of FS bikes (prior to the computer modeling done now). And, they did a damn fine job of it.

It's not externally visible, but there is an excentric linkage that absorbs the movement of the swingarm so theoretically the shock could be fully fixed. For a substantial period of it's history, the Tazmon had one of the stiffest linkages available because of this, but then new designs passed it by.

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Originally Posted by pechelman

speaking about horses
why the fuck dont people put on those poop bags that they use in the city when theyre riding on trails.
seems like it would be pretty nice
kinda like people picking up the poop from their dog.

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Amen. There is a commercial stable that uses some of the easier scenic hiking/mountainbiking trails around here. The fact that I have to dismount and walk past the horses to keep from spooking them I can stand. The piles of horse crap LITERALLY every 5-10 feet is beyond rediculous. It's a trail on USFS land yet it has as much horse shit as a stable, except they shovel the stables from time to time. Truly outragous. Wonder who I should complain too.

write a letter to our congressman

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

write a letter to our congressman

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My congress person wrote the wilderness expansion bill in california.

She also puts that cunt condie rice in her place publicly so it's definitely a love/hate thing.:D