What Would John Muir Do?
Printable View
What Would John Muir Do?
Dunno about Mr Muir, but.
Today I and 2 riding buddies went over near Anaconda and rode a new (built 2 years ago) section of the CDT. We managed an out and back of about 8 miles each way and encountered 50+ trees across the trail. Frustrating with a 28 lb bike. Unpossible with a 50 lb e-bike.
Just an observation.
1. Does it have a Motor?Quote:
Your comparison of small silent electric pedal assist to any dirtbike motor from the era when motors were being banned is absurd. .
2. Is the hypothetical area designated Non-motorized?
What you find absurd I see as pretty cut and dry.
Pick a side and be a dick about it on the internet?Quote:
Originally Posted by rideit
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I dunno...maybe he would be walking along some 200 mile trek thinking "If only there was some easier way to do this shit!"
I find most of them to be rooted in forms of elitismQuote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
"If they're not in shape like me, they don't deserve to have the fun I have"
"we were here first, our advocacy buys us the right to exclude others"... i.e. pulling the ladder up behind you.
and/or quasi-puritanical notions about needing to pay a penance of suffering to enjoy outdoor recreation.
"they're lazy...they should work for their fun like I do."
and/or, as earlier stated, fundamentalist notions about all motors being equal and ignoring the original context and intent of longstanding (and as such, outdated) motor/nonmotor regs.
"pedal-assist makes it a motorcycle, so go ride your pedal-assist bike on the freeway or the supercross track with the other motorcycles"
None really "very valid" in my view.
A gang of over weight middle aged ebikers just went by. No helmets. There a probably 1000's of miles of "trails" where ebikes are not legal but the right machine for the job of recreating boomers
What are the very valid reasons?Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Team RougeQuote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
Attachment 242669
Rogue Team
Attachment 242670
The fundamental problem with the "elitism" argument is that nobody is preventing anyone from buying a new or used bike and going for a ride. Riding bikes is one of the most fun, most popular, things people do. Nobody is pulling the ladder up behind them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
It's an argument that makes no sense. Just because a person doesn't like serious cyclists™ doesn't mean they can't have a hell of a lot of fun on a regular bike, anyway.
Your location with its wide path seems like an ideal place for ebikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by wooley12
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/Back-on-...rd-Injury.html
not trying to start a fight with the angry fanatics, just posting some ebike stoke.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I work with someone who's a great great something descendant from Muir. Want me to ask him? It's as close as you can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideit
When I first started mountain biking I would ride lost giants to mole trap and ride the road back and I was dead tired after. Then I started going down new issues, kaya, bunny trails, and crossing the road and looping back down briar rabbit, lost giants and last call. Then I started climbing up to the "next level"...
I started from zero. I'm still a slow climber/Walkabiker.
I can understand not wanting to put the time and effort in to gain skills and fitness but the term elitist is so absolutely off base about mountain bike culture it makes me angry to read.
I have been welcome in this community with open arms like I have never been in my whole entire life.
I ride along and people know my name. It was like that when I had no skills on a 15 year old hard tail and it's the same now.
Most mountain bikers are not elitist, and the culture is pretty damn inclusive. Pro riders level ride with me... WITH me, not wait for me, but ride with me.
Pretty much all you have to do is show up and be stoked.
Attachment 242671Attachment 242672
Yeah, actually though what you're saying here is "I like the thing I like, but not what you like, so it's fine if we just ban the thing you like, because everyone should be like me and do the things I like to do instead of the things they like to do."Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
Nobody is preventing snowboarders from going and skiing Alta on skis. etc.
we've seen all this before.
I bet Mike Vandeman strokes out over e-MTB's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Nonsense. Hikers, runners... there are several other self propelled categories.
Skis vs snowboards is more akin to surfboards vs SUPS, not ebikes vs bikes. Even though they're nowhere near the speed and power of ICE motos, ebikes still have a motor. If a person wants to argue an electric motor is different than an ICE motor, that's fine, but arguing ebikes are the same "but for elitism" is as absurd as saying "ebikes are just bikes" or "ebikes don't go any faster" or "the motor only helping 15%."
The issue is people claiming ebikes are just bikes. Ebikes are motorized and that adds speed. Even though more speed might not be a problem in some places, it is definitely a problem in other places.
People who ride bikes on non-motorized trails don't want to be placed in the same category as ebikes. This discussion boils down to one side pointing out the obvious fact that ebikes are a separate motorized category of vehicle while the other argues they are the same. Just acknowledge they are different and that ebikes may not be appropriate everywhere.
Safe to say he’d need the E assistQuote:
Originally Posted by rideit
Lol... I can actually provide written evidence of this. Hence my Marin talk earlier in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideit
Can we please stop labeling them Ebikes.
Call them what they are, Ecycles.
The reason that want to ride with you is because they want to get laid.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app
You haven't been here long, have you?
giggle
Got a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
I am genuinely curious where his involvement would take the conversation.
Politics makes strange bedfellows, and all...
Maybe if it were like that here I’d see it your way. It’s not though. Not even close. And this is supposed to be The Place for mountain biking. All that really seems to mean is the mcmansion crowd has to buy a $3000 bike and a tailgate pad for the $70,000 truck and a “ntn” sticker so they have the patagonia street cred at the $8/beer microbrewery.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
You can go ride a cheap hardtail (no Santa Cruz?!?) from your house (no sprinter van?!?) and go bang around on trails set up for fs bikes but you’ll be doing it alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
bullshit
Butt-er you berate people on the NE thread for riding a lift? Not trying to stir you up....but this seems like a real contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
EMTB, for pussified humans that are too scared to throw a leg over a motorcycle, but far too lazy or out of shape to actually be Mountain Bikers.
This whole thing is really to grow the market. Control your local recreational resources. I have a 6 hour loop that I struggle to complete a few times a year. It is at my limit of strength, conditioning, and skill. I have never been able to complete the entire ride without walking a bit. It's out there....waiting for me. Sure when I had the WR I would bwap it out in a couple hours. What would it mean if I went out and completed this ride with an electric motor. Would I be fooling myself into feeling a sense of accomplishment? Would it be meaningful in any way. Would it represent anything in life. Would it be more fun to ride 35 miles in 4 hours assisted than to ride 20 miles in 4 hours under my own power? I mean, as a MTBer for the last 30 plus years....I just don't get it. I wonder where the appeal to those in the extended tribe. Fun? Meh. Not as rad as my chromag while ripping down. Not as rad as my WR ripping up hill. It really just seems like people want to pretend here. They want to zoom around all "Look at ME!" as if.....
FKN A. Keep it real posers....
Huh? I don’t give a shit what you do with your time. I never said shit about riding lifts, like ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
Go on now
My bad....Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
"So, sounds like my plans have changed. Looks like I will go to the Giant Demo, get a park pass, and rally the Killington Bike Park (not really DH, more 'all mountain').
Want to do one climb, and the rest of the day descending.
Anyone have KBP beta?"
Dude, lame so lame.
Might as well rent an e-bike. Fucking bike park?
Go on now
Well yeah, if you are coming east to ride bike park, you lose!
Take many laps
I'm happy for those areas. It keeps a lot of traffic off the goods. Shuttles as well. Big climbs with no shuttle option are a great filter. Ebikes bring that crowd to the back country.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
Nah, I don’t think so. It’s not like fat people are gonna start e-biking, en masse. It’s not gonna be a ground swell of new users. If it gets people off their couch and on a bike. I’m all in. I don’t think my local network is about to be overrun, with $4000 e-bikes. I want one for strictly class 4/snowmachine trail, hell zones. The places no one goes to in summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
Future so bright
Trails aren't built for full suspension bikes...Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
You know happens when I ride a hardtail on "hard" trails?
People are like fuck yeah! You're riding a hardtail! Hell yeah!
I just dont believe that there is this massive difference in people here versus there...
Still doesn't change the fact that motors are motors, though.
No link, but until she left the County several weeks ago, part of my wife's job was to process and organize all of the public comments on the EIR / initial studies she wrote for trail proposals / amendments. Her department has been trying for many years to improve access for mountain bikers. Let's just say Vandeman's crazy rants caught her attention early on.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideit
And yes, e-bikes and not being able to tell the difference is now one of his talking points.
So let me just ask you this: do you figure I'm lying to you about my hometown and the situation here?Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Well, the difference between riding 35 miles vs 20 is that you have a lot more downhill to enjoy and improve your skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app
Is that so? How would you knowQuote:
Originally Posted by nest
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Just like every other new thing that's better than the old thing, the initial butthurt will eventually look stupid.
All the same stuff got said about fat skis. People pretending to be expert skiers. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
How about just that it's a bike that's easier to ride, and that seeking an arduous painful experience isn't everyone's makeup.
This whole thing is divided into people who understand a little bit about human thought and behavior and people who don't. Lots of different people get different things from recreation....a big part of this resistance to "any motor" seems to be the elitist attitude that "since my goal is fitness and overcoming physical trial, yours should be too"....how about this: fuck you, your values are not universal. Some people just like to roll through the woods without it being a physical trial. Maybe they're not secretly trying to compete with you....so you don't have to worry about them 'cheating' with a pedal-assist. If you want a physical trial, go have one....but don't insist that everyone out there has to enjoy what you enjoy, and do things the way you do them.
No, I think your perception of reality is clouded by preconceived ideas and insecurities that come across as just a really bitter and negative attitude...Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Every post about mountain biking from you has all been about what you don't have and can't afford versus what "they have" and you dont and cant and wont.
It makes me frustrated and sad because I like you and I want you (and everyone) to share the awesomeness...
And I just dont think Michigan is full of assholes.