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I wear my beacon more and more each year. I think I wore it basically everyday I skied last season, and always when I patrolled (volunteer @ PT, but taking this season off bc I have a toddler). More often than not I just keep my beacon in a ski pant pocket (it has a loop for it to be attached to). Having it in my pocket made it something that was always there and not another layer/item to remember to put on under my patrol vest each time. I am sure some people disagree with keeping it in my pocket but it is common amongst patrol for many reasons.

Not sure how well known it is, but at PT patrol often has beacons buried for their own ad-hoc practice. Common spots are generally around the bill's boardwalk / groove tube area, and over on the skiers right side of rainbow bowl, but it varies (usually pulled out before rain / storm cycles). Public is generally welcome to practice with them as well - just stop by a patrol shack to see if any are buried on a given day and where they are (siberia and shirely patrol shacks generally are the best bets to get that info). Beacons are usually attached to the back of a plastic sign or disc before being buried so you can practice probing after you narrow it down with your beacon (don't dig them up).

In my experience, patrol and bystanders are on scene with beacons long before dogs or a probe line get organized. And reco seems to be a bodyfinder.

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Originally Posted by powdrhound

I enjoy walking around the line, with mine set on receive, waiting for Cornice chair to open. Lots of beeping going on.

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^^^ He is risen!

Awful, awful stuff.

As mentioned above, snow science is far from a science. To assume that the ski resort or heli operation or guide etc. has ensured your safety is tenuous proposition at best. 6 of the 12 avy deaths in B.C. last year were at heli ski ops under the leadership of guides.

Maybe wearing your beacon at all times isn't such a bad idea.

Respect to everyone who searched and helped. The Reddit vid of bystanders hand digging out the barely conscious individual is crazy.

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Originally Posted by Angle Parking

Awful, awful stuff.

As mentioned above, snow science is far from a science. To assume that the ski resort or heli operation or guide etc. has ensured your safety is tenuous proposition at best. 6 of the 12 avy deaths in B.C. last year were occurred under at heli ski ops under the leadership of guides.

Maybe wearing your beacon at all times isn't such a bad idea.

Respect to everyone who searched and helped. The Reddit vid of bystanders hand digging the barely conscious individual is crazy.

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Yeah, apparently a neighbor of mine was one of those digging. Fortunately their guy made it out.

RIPE

From the Land of Woolly Mammoths

Attachment 482574

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Great point.
With more snow coming and clearly a pretty shit snowpack, I guess some skier compaction would make sense.

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My way of thinking is better to open terrain mid-week when the majority is locals with a bit of savvy. Opening terrain on a Saturday of MLK is kind of asking for it.

To anyone who was there--the videos I saw showed some people digging with their hands--because there weren't shovels or because they were close to a face? Seems like a lot more people ski with beacons than with shovels but as Spence pointed out, bystanders are often first on the scene. If it's avy enough for a beacon isn't it avy enough for a shovel?\\

The slide off the top of Alpine bowl was pretty impressive. My pic doesn't do it justice--should have taken it while the sun was still more east.
Attachment 482578

The snow today made you forget that skiing is a difficult sport.

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Originally Posted by old goat

To anyone who was there--the videos I saw showed some people digging with their hands--because there weren't shovels or because they were close to a face? Seems like a lot more people ski with beacons than with shovels but as Spence pointed out, bystanders are often first on the scene. If it's avy enough for a beacon isn't it avy enough for a shovel?\\

The slide off the top of Alpine bowl was pretty impressive. My pic doesn't do it justice--should have taken it while the sun was still more east.
Attachment 482578

The snow today made you forget that skiing is a difficult sport.

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I wasn't there, but in response to the general question, my take is like what hutash said upthread. The step from wearing nothing to wearing a transceiver is basically not a step at all. But the step from wearing a transceiver to also wearing a pack is a significant step up in fiddle factor--especially when lifts are involved. So, to me, it's kind of a spectrum. YMMV.

I'm not judging. I carry a beacon without a shovel more often than not; carrying a shovel seems pretentious, which is a really dumb reason not to carry potentially life saving gear.

Story from one of the guys buried.
https://www.kcra.com/article/palisad...scued/46354226

Carrying a shovel resort skiing is not why you ski at a resort. Resort skiing is completely different than bc skiing. Most push much harder on a resort vs bc, so a shovel and a pack would be a pia and limiting for most. Let's face it, this is an extremely infrequent occurrence and when it does happen help arrives pretty damn quick. Now wearing and having a beacon makes the process of being found and survival much better and makes sense. Would a shovel be better, sure, but patrol or mtn ops will be there pretty quick with one.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Yeah, apparently a neighbor of mine was one of those digging. Fortunately their guy made it out.

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The probe line pics etc. lead me to believe that the response from staff and skiers was excellent.

I think they should install beacon detectors in the lift line gates and require beacons until all terrain has been opened and skied. It would cut down on the intermediates too. Palisades can even rent one way beacons to touring.

(I’m not at all saying the death was due to not having a beacon or anything, just a general resort safety thought)


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Originally Posted by old goat

To anyone who was there--the videos I saw showed some people digging with their hands--because there weren't shovels or because they were close to a face? Seems like a lot more people ski with beacons than with shovels but as Spence pointed out, bystanders are often first on the scene.

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Not to second guess, but rather for better bystander utilization and future reference and knowledge... I see the hand digging too. If I were there I would have jumped up to organize a downhill crew digging toward the burial with skis and snowboards. IME, a ski is about half as useful as a shovel. The tails are especially good for cutting through snow. Couple people cutting blocks and dumping them downhill for others to move further downhill should access the buried guy pretty fast, no? Or at least move a good amount of snow while waiting for shovels. Possibly the KT slide set up too hard for ski tails(?). I've "ski-dug" snow while camping, or freeing a stuck car/jeep/truck. I'm not officially avy certified, but willing to improvise and throw out ideas for consideration. (Like the guy on scene who collected bamboos to create a probe line)

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Carrying a shovel resort skiing is not why you ski at a resort. Resort skiing is completely different than bc skiing. Most push much harder on a resort vs bc, so a shovel and a pack would be a pia and limiting for most. .

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When I have carried a shovel I can't say I found it limiting. By your logic if burial is too infrequent for a shovel it's too infrequent for a beacon. What good is your beaxon if no one has a shovel. Yeah, patrol will probably get there in time but they might not or at least not in sufficient numbers. And you know how you're supposed to have a buddy in the trees. What good is having a buddy if they don't have a shovel to dig you out? And if you have a shovel you can rent it out to people who lost their skis in the snow.

On the news this morning the same BS as with the 2008, that the SAC had the risk as considerable---as if the BC risk applied inbounds after mitigation. Oh well, it's what you expect from the news.

Conducting a beacon search with 20+ people around and more being added every ten seconds would be difficult if everyone is still in send mode on arrival. Not saying we shouldn’t wear beacons - but I imagine it would still be a clusterfuck of a search with lots of chaos. Props to the people that responded and dug that guy out.

There was a mag involved in an avi in the alps where many others were whizzing by out of view on a traverse (and having no idea about the avi out of their view), and the mag and others searching kept receiving those others’ beacon signals. Weren’t there similar problems in that incident in Idaho (lots of people beeping that were searching)?

^^^^^

This...the beacon at the resort thing is only going to work if everyone else in the area is in SEARCH mode. Last thing you want is wasting valuable time and energy digging to a false signal. Granted, ideally a leader would take control and yell for everyone to go into search mode.

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Originally Posted by old goat

What good is your beaxon if no one has a shovel.

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Body recovery (ie recovery of the person with the beacon) and possibly quicker closure for loved ones.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Carrying a shovel resort skiing is not why you ski at a resort. Resort skiing is completely different than bc skiing. Most push much harder on a resort vs bc, so a shovel and a pack would be a pia and limiting for most. Let's face it, this is an extremely infrequent occurrence and when it does happen help arrives pretty damn quick. Now wearing and having a beacon makes the process of being found and survival much better and makes sense. Would a shovel be better, sure, but patrol or mtn ops will be there pretty quick with one.

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Pretty quick is still over 5 minutes.

And skiing with a small pack is no big deal at all.

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I carried all the crap and wore my inflato-bag today. I hated every second of it-carrying the bag, I mean. I feel like a fucking dong wearing it inbounds and its a giant PITA riding full chairs with it. I own the thing so I guess I'd feel dumb if I got smoked and left it in the car

here is helicopter footage of the slide area. looks like it ran from top of gs bowl all the way down over the cliffs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6sYXjh_G0

I think that video might be showing a fresh slide from this morning’s control work. I don’t think the one yesterday went that far.


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Is there still a beacon field near the red dog complex or did that disappear with the new lifts? Used to be six transmitters and you could turn on one of them from a control panel.

I would not want to be the guy driving the sno cat in the KCRA video.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

I think they should install beacon detectors in the lift line gates and require beacons until all terrain has been opened and skied. It would cut down on the intermediates too. Palisades can even rent one way beacons to touring.

(I’m not at all saying the death was due to not having a beacon or anything, just a general resort safety thought)


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Bridger. Remember the video of the guy flipping out because he couldn't ride the lift because he wasn't beeping? And then you had Coombs tricking the thing to get on.

I agree though, it'd be great if it was mandatory...maybe. To others point, if you don't switch to search mode that creates chaos also.

I don't think there is a correct answer here, but I've been beeping after new snow for a while now.

And I also agree with using a ski or snowboard to assist with digging/pushing/sliding snow away. Was thinking the same thing watching the vid.

Did anyone else hear about the post control slide in Wolverine Bowl today? Friends said it happened late in the afternoon near the traverse line. It was big but no one caught up or injured.

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Originally Posted by rod9301

Pretty quick is still over 5 minutes.

And skiing with a small pack is no big deal at all.

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Agree. I always ski with beacon/shovel/probe at Big Sky, and don't even notice it on my back anymore. I want to be able to assist in the event of a slide, as unlikely as it is. Plus it is required to ski some of the best terrain. People get lulled into thinking these aren't real mountains just because they are ski resorts. In- bounds slides happen way more often than people realize.

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Originally Posted by old goat

I would not want to be the guy driving the sno cat in the KCRA video.

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No shit! I was just saying that to the lady as were watching this.

RIP skier. Sorry for his family and friends and for y’all whole community out there. This shit is hard.

Former patroller here, been wearing my beacon just about every day in bounds ever since. Seen a lot of unexpected shit happen. Saw my friend get caught in a large inbounds slide on open terrain at Snowbird too. It’s just part of my kit and my routine so the decision isn’t “do I wear it today?”, it’s “do I leave it today?” I ski avalanche terrain in bounds almost exclusively and I’m always poking around in nooks and crannies looking for unskied or at least soft snow. I’m sure most of us do the same and, shit happens sometimes.

As far as shovels, I carried it on storm days for while after the Snowbird slide but then got lazy. It’s better to have than not but it is kind of a pain and I still feel like wearing the beacon moves the odds a bit in your favor.

I wear my beacon. Too easy not to. Put it on and turn it on at home since I don't want to forget. If patrol has been bombing or it is storming hard, I wear a slim profile pack that does not interfere with riding chairs to carry a shovel and probe.

Watching the video from the KT slide rescue, I need to attempt to add practicing shoveling/organizing a shoveling conga line with my partners.

Condolences to Mr. Kidd's family and positive thoughts to those involved, assisted and PT's patrol team.

Arcteryx used to make that Quiver bag sling - was to carry shovel and probe and lunch but have it be easy to swing in front of your body on lifts (at least that was one of the benefits of the design). I had one for a decade but then sold it on a “street wear” clothing website for what I paid for it originally.

Attachment 482631

Mammoth did some control today.

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Originally Posted by duffski

here is helicopter footage of the slide area. looks like it ran from top of gs bowl all the way down over the cliffs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6sYXjh_G0

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yes and no. it did run like that but that guy is wrong. that crown is new from todays control work. The avalanche happened after about 2" fell from yesterdays storm of 14". They would know that if they didn't turn comments off.

edit- while the picture I posted of the crown isn't particularly clear, it is in the video. I just don't have permission to post it. Someone from patrol did approach me via PM and they do have a copy of it.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

First, it's an imperfect science as we all know.

With that said I cannot imagine anyone would open terrain without going thru their avi mitigation protocols. ...back to my first point.

Some may think that a suit would or could push for a lift/terrain to open especially with the bad press of mile long lift lines, but I doubt that could happen?

I'd like to hear Telefree's take on this situation.

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Shit happens.
Condolences to all affected.

To those second guessing and armchair QB ing, stfu or go work there and show em how it's done.
Those boys are really good at what they do.

Pet peeve of mine: Calling a fracture line a crown. The crown is the snow remaining above the crown face. The crown face is the fracture.
Thus a 10' crown is actually no big deal.

More later about my thoughts on deep slab instability and it's mitigation...

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Worth noting that it was a Wednesday - there was zero pressure to get it open 3 days before the weekend crowds arrive.

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Zero? The hard-core locals have been clamoring for KT since opening day. Not getting it open for a pow day is sacrilege.

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Originally Posted by powdork

On a related note do we know whether trauma was the cause of death, or whether it was a burial? Was he found on top, by avy dogs, or by the probe line? etc

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I haven't read the rest of the replies yet, so somebody may have beat me to it. One of my buddies is hurt right now and spent his ski team afternoon yesterday in the bar. He ended up sitting with the family of the young kid that broke his leg. They're here from Australia on vacation. They were there when the deceased was recovered. It sounds like COD was asphyxiation. My buddy is a first responder. He laughs when he tells the story about a woman being sucked through a snowblower. I've never seen him tear up, but this one got him. Really tough situation. There were a lot more burials and recoveries than people are talking about. There was another slide, burial and rescue over further into Women's DH.

There were a lot of slides by yesterday afternoon. I'm sure a lot triggered by control (big slide under the Palisades, big slide through Chute 75) but some strange ones, too (decent size slide under Red Dog).

It's a wicked snowpack out there on the NE stuff.

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Originally Posted by spnce

In my experience, patrol and bystanders are on scene with beacons long before dogs or a probe line get organized. And reco seems to be a bodyfinder.

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Yeah. RECCO=recovery. I'm not betting my life on that.

I've never seen as many beacons and packs inbounds as yesterday. I didn't wear a pack, but I did wear a beacon and put one on my kid.

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Originally Posted by LightRanger

I wasn't there, but in response to the general question, my take is like what hutash said upthread. The step from wearing nothing to wearing a transceiver is basically not a step at all. But the step from wearing a transceiver to also wearing a pack is a significant step up in fiddle factor--especially when lifts are involved. So, to me, it's kind of a spectrum. YMMV.

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That slide in Alpine bowl is spooky.

I ordered a vest to carry my shovel and probe. It's a Dad thing for me. I can't stand the thought of my kid getting buried and me not having tools to recover him.

My Avi pack is cumbersome. A vest with a shovel and probe is hardly noticeable. Leave it on for the chair rides. No prob.

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Originally Posted by bennymac

Conducting a beacon search with 20+ people around and more being added every ten seconds would be difficult if everyone is still in send mode on arrival. Not saying we shouldn’t wear beacons - but I imagine it would still be a clusterfuck of a search with lots of chaos. Props to the people that responded and dug that guy out.

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Finding a body without a beacon in a 150' wide, 450' field is a needle in a hay stack. I'd rather put a few people on duty making sure that everybody is in search model. I also think its worth carrying a probe and shovel. Hand digging after you have a strong signal is a mind fuck.

This event has changed my perspective. Before kids I just went. After kids we wore beacons. Now I think adding a shovel/probe feels worthwhile on the big days.

Sorry for the blast of replies. This whole thing really wound my brain into overdrive.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

Zero? The hard-core locals have been clamoring for KT since opening day. Not getting it open for a pow day is sacrilege.

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Are you new here? They don’t give a fuck about locals, they know where their bread is buttered. Pressure = financial incentive.

(Yes, patrol and mountain ops want to open stuff because they’re real skiers/riders, but that’s aside from the point)