Buying a 10+ year old car what could go wrong?

It's the first targa done by Singer. 964 chassis & original engine case. New body in carbon fiber, newly fabricated nickel roll bar to look like the old 1960s targas. 4.0L n/a flat six putting out 390bhp on a ~2700lb car. Guessing it was well above the 370k starting point being the first commissioned targa restoration. If I'm not mistaken another 4.0 model ran the nürburgring about the same as a current R8.

good writeup here:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/24/e...red-by-singer/

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims...11-targa-1.jpg

That's the magic Singer is bringing to the table. Classic designs brought technologically up to date. Why Singer can make a 911 that is largely a new 911, but one that still looks like a classic 911, but Porsche cannot, is beyond me.

What do you think the sales figures would be if Porsche made a car similar to the Singer 911 without the insane attention to detail and with the basic innards of a 991, and called the next cars the Porsche 911 3.8 and 4.0. Starting price on a base Carrera of maybe $74,995.00.

30+k cars per year? Could they possibly meet demand?

Singers require 4,000 man hours per vehicle. Could be the hangup. That and regulations.

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Originally Posted by Bromontana

Singers require 4,000 man hours per vehicle. Could be the hangup. That and regulations.

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That's true, but the same way that the wood trimmed steering wheel on a 996 doesn't make a great sports car, neither does the door lock stem that's been machined from a single piece of platinum, mined from a passing asteroid. I'd put real money down that there's a $75k car in there if you can produce reasonable volume like VWG can, and you're not stuck reclaiming vehicles currently selling for 3x their actual value. If it were possible for a startup to not struggle with production efficiency and volume, I'd write a $500k check TODAY to back them.

That Singer Targa is pure sex on wheels.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Yeah, I don't know...

And it's not really about the driving characteristics of the cars. The old 2.7s and 3.2s were strange handling cars. The 930 Turbo Widow's Club could rent out Madison Square Garden. I'd be astounded if the Golf I'm going to pick up on Friday isn't faster than the 964 I can't afford, as would be any car in the post 964 Porsche lineup. The 996 is slower, but only after the ims failure!

But Porsche has gone through a period (a long one now) of having lost the style plot. Even the 718, which is not a bad looking car, manages to both obviously attempt conjure up memories of the old 718, and also somehow fail in doing so. The 991 is better, but even there the modern interiors are consistently uninspiring. Somewhere along the line Porsche forgot that the success is in the basics, and then delivering them as sculptures from which every last grain of unnecessary sand has been removed. Because wood trimmed steering wheels, and a million buttons on the dashboard don't make a great sports car. Ferdie stumbled upon what has proven to be the world's most durably iconic vehicle shape. His descendants should stay the fuck out of the way and let the magic do its thing. Keep designing better engines, better transmissions, add a cock sucking mother fucking radiator if you have to. Keep engineering better cars... But stop fucking around with the packaging already.

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Porsche is also one of the most profitable car companies currently, and almost went out of business making purists sport cars.

The Boxster saved Porsche, and only in the last 5 years, have people really become retarded over classic 911s. Not sure how long Singer has been in business.

Cayenne and Macan make up 70% of Porsche sales. Porsche is going to be focusing on SUVs, CUVs, and Sedans. VW continues to screw the pooch, so Audi and Porsche are the producers now.

I would look for a mid size sedan next.


The classics are great an all, but you can't drive them. Singers are badass too, but that is the last car I would spend 400k+ on.

Some new 911 love.

http://www.tagmotorsports.com/Forums...sche-991_2.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2871/1...29f16542_b.jpg

For 85-90K there is nothing better than a 997 Turbo S. This is a 918 Edition, but same same. I actually like the 997 size compared to the 991.

http://ag-spots-2012.o.auroraobjects...12185406_4.jpg

^ No argument there. Like every other company, Porsche is a better car manufacturer when they're profitable. They should make fucking helicopters and refrigerators if they make money doing so.

The 911 is a specific car. Why does the 911 have to become a different car so the can sell mid size sedans? They could even keep making the 991... They could call it... hmm... what could they call the 991 that would distinguish it from a 911? Get back to me if anything comes to mind... lol.

Back to my original.question, how many <$100k 911 Carrera 3.8's do you think Porsche would sell in the 2017 MY if they looked like this:

http://singervehicledesign.com/wp-co...11-540x320.jpg

?

Sent from my XT1575 using TGR Forums mobile app

I totally get what you are saying, but they would never do that.

It is taking the 911 backwards, which is against the Porsche philosophy of constant improvement, and it would kill already bad Cayman sales.

I could see a Porsche Classic division showing up, where donor cars (like Singer), are custom built for 918 customers and such.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

I totally get what you are saying, but they would never do that.

It is taking the 911 backwards, which is against the Porsche philosophy of constant improvement, and it would kill already bad Cayman sales.

I could see a Porsche Classic division showing up, where donor cars (like Singer), are custom built for 918 customers and such.

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I'm inclined to disagree... Porsche has made a lot of money making half assed 911 variants and hasn't really figured out what the market holds for actual "constant improvement" any of the other market spaces. Even the fucking SUV's were, and to some degree still are, designed to look like 911 derivatives. I'd argue that the ONLY thing they've done, shy of the 918, is wring the shit out of their single independently marketable vehicle. Between that and the incredibly obvious platform sharing (I'm totally buying that Bentley Tuareg - what an awesome idea), they're not constantly improving in the style space, they're constantly getting by on minimum effort.

IMO, Porsche should find a fresh design for these awesome cars they're making, and bring the 911 back to it's traditional design. Make as many other cars as you want, but make them good enough to stand on their own. The market for the real 911 is undeniable... Has porsche really fallen so far as to deny their customers the car they so obviously want so they can keep selling Caymans?

They also did this.
http://www.rarecars.co/wp-content/up...Carrera-GT.jpg

The half assed 911s were the 996s. The 997 and onward, are some of the most capable sports cars on the market, for the money.

The 991.2 Turbo S is the most capable performance car for 200k.

Regardless, 911, Boxster, Cayman take a backseat to Cayenne and Macan (the best selling CUV on the market). Now that the Panamera's looks match the capability, I imagine those sales will shoot up.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

Porsche is also one of the most profitable car companies currently, and almost went out of business making purists sport cars.

The Boxster saved Porsche, and only in the last 5 years, have people really become retarded over classic 911s. Not sure how long Singer has been in business.

Cayenne and Macan make up 70% of Porsche sales. Porsche is going to be focusing on SUVs, CUVs, and Sedans. VW continues to screw the pooch, so Audi and Porsche are the producers now.

I would look for a mid size sedan next.


The classics are great an all, but you can't drive them. Singers are badass too, but that is the last car I would spend 400k+ on.

Some new 911 love.

http://www.tagmotorsports.com/Forums...sche-991_2.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2871/1...29f16542_b.jpg

For 85-90K there is nothing better than a 997 Turbo S. This is a 918 Edition, but same same. I actually like the 997 size compared to the 991.

http://ag-spots-2012.o.auroraobjects...12185406_4.jpg

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Never seen that edition, what's up with it? I love that green accent on the grey. And why's it called a Spyder when it's a hardtop?

Stfu; Porsche has figured out what you're looking for and they made it. It's called the 911R.

Jeesuz christ, can you guys go over to the Porsche forums and ejaculate over there?

Yep. 991R is the epitome of a modern 911.

Edition 918 Spyder was an add on when you ordered your 918 Spyder. Hence the Spyder on the door. It was a box you checked basically. "Yep... Ill take the 200k Turbo S too."

Only 918 Customers have them. Acid Green calipers and accents. Single side intakes.

I actually had a customer that ordered 3 918s, and he wanted a 991 "edition 918 Spyder" and Porsche would not do it. lol. It's stickers and some paint.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Jeesuz christ, can you guys go over to the Porsche forums and ejaculate over there?

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I'm on em.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

They also did this.
http://www.rarecars.co/wp-content/up...Carrera-GT.jpg

The half assed 911s were the 996s. The 997 and onward, are some of the most capable sports cars on the market, for the money.

The 991.2 Turbo S is the most capable performance car for 200k.

Regardless, 911, Boxster, Cayman take a backseat to Cayenne and Macan (the best selling CUV on the market). Now that the Panamera's looks match the capability, I imagine those sales will shoot up.

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I've acknowledged that the modern cars are good cars, and that Porsche should continue to build better cars. From a style perspective, Porsche has been lazy af. The 991R is a cool car, and certainly a great version of the 991. But not only isn't it in any way similar to a traditional 911, it's unattainability makes it an instant museum piece, far more so than any 993C2.

The 991 is a phenomenal car in its own right. No reason to try to say its something it isn't.

Attachment 185818

...is this promising or am I still missing the part about the engine is on borrowed time?sounds like the problems were recognized and handled essentially. I'm under the impression that it was the IMS failure that blew the engines. Is it still likely that in 4K miles Pistons, rings, and gaskets all explode?

Did you ask him, why he is selling?

Take it to a Porsche store and get a PPI.

Kid on the way. Still will do a PPI if I pick it up. Gotta go get an AC unit, so the Navigator lives another day.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

Singers are badass too, but that is the last car I would spend 400k+ on.

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This on the other hand...

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7303/1...99ae4199_b.jpg

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Jeesuz christ, can you guys go over to the Porsche forums and ejaculate over there?

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second.

I choose my 07 solstice gxp after driving it and a 2005 911; I liked it better.

sure, the 911 is the quintessential sportscar for the past few decades and I don't deny that; but there are other nice 10 year old sportscars. early 2000 xkr, z3 M, etc.

Neighbor has one of those clownshoe Z3M coupes, says he gets offers to buy it every week.

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Originally Posted by SkiCougar

second.

I choose my 07 solstice gxp after driving it and a 2005 911; I liked it better.

sure, the 911 is the quintessential sportscar for the past few decades and I don't deny that; but there are other nice 10 year old sportscars. early 2000 xkr, z3 M, etc.

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So talk about soltices.

The more active posters dont need to hush to allow silence to dominate. Thats how threads die.

Feel free to contribute rather than moan.

Last page was discussion about the Golf R and a S5. I just posted a 458 Speciale.

guroo: Find a S2000 and buy that.

There's definitely a niche market for those z3m's.

Not a huge fan of slammed cars but you could literally eat off any part of this car. Clean as fuck. Kid I know through some friends owns this:

http://stancewords.stanceworks.netdn...ne-bw-9808.jpg

http://67.media.tumblr.com/1001609b3...6p6o1_1280.jpg

will edit with higher res pics when I get home, mobile upload is shit apparently

Welcome to fucking Kansas...http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...d8f4927235.jpg

That would really communicate an effective message in 4XL.