Next level cognitive dissonance.Quote:
Originally Posted by SumJongGuy
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Next level cognitive dissonance.Quote:
Originally Posted by SumJongGuy
Not really. I could believe global warming is a hoax (well not a hoax, but overblown) while also believing the weather is manipulated.Quote:
Originally Posted by riser4
The cognitive dissonance I have is knowing my government lies all the time, killed a president, let Pearl Harbor happen, dropped two nukes when Japan was already ready to surrender, gulf of Tonkin to kill so many on both sides in Vietnam, lied about saddam, etc. etc.
and I’m supposed to waive the flag and pledge allegiance and oooh rah
PS. On climate change, we done fucked this planet.
"It's the partisan decathalon of the cognitive dissonance olympics"
What would an operating room look like without disposable plastic?Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
1950Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsparkco
The problem with mindlessly embracing every Oliver Stone conspiracy is you end up simping for the most repressive regimes and worst despots on the planet. Sitting on a couch watching Dr. Strangelove as one of Putin's useful idiots is a bad place to end up in life. Because of course in America unlike all the possible superpower rivals you don't have to wave the flag, you can burn it instead, and nobody can force you pledge allegiance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
Everything has to do with the alternative. Unlike imperialism in the past, the United States didn't directly benefit, like France in the Congo for example, from the enormous sacrifices made by Americans in your false Oliver Stone histories. Japan, like South Korea, is free and thriving today because despotism was defeated. We wrote the Japanese constitution which still stands to this day. We lost the war in Vietnam but won the peace. Vietnam is one of the most pro-America countries on the planet.
Every other superpower not only denies human rights but negates them. We should try to be better. It's all imperfect and inexact. But there is no other better alternative to a free economy and free institutions aligned with other countries that have the same.
You wouldn’t have to go that far back. We were still using cloth drapes and gowns into the early 90s at some places. Very little disposable items other than sharps.Quote:
Originally Posted by skiJ
The amount of waste generated in the OR now is appalling.
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I was thinking of things like syringes, IVs, tubing, and other miscellaneous bits that I know have been 'plastic' for a long time...Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
Unicorn's point is well made and well taken.
skiJ
A lot more paper than plastic, but, having removed a few bullets in my time, having to drop one in a plastic basin without a "clink" is an abomination.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsparkco
Surgery rooms need foley artists too now
HehQuote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Bring back the autoclaves
What does this mean? The bulk of sterilization for instrumentation is done by autoclaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
Paper and IV supplies are a very small part of the waste stream these days. The bulk is plastic packaging and poly spun fabric for gowns and drapes that’s all disposable, it’s shameful. It’s probably part of Big Autoclave conspiracy to be honest
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I’m sure the waste is appalling. Also, many of the results are nothing short of miraculous.
Whether routine or cutting edge, pun intended, I’ll take a 2023 OR over 1950.
I’ve heard the argument for a very long time, perhaps we should save the oil for things that save lives, so generations into the future will have them too. Seems rational to me. Makes more sense than I need a truck twice a year, so I’ll drive one every day.
FWIW, we can make plastic from plants now.
This - from what I could tell, pretty much all the plastic bags in Italy when we were there were made out of corn.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
Good point. Wonder if any of that technology is being used in healthcare? I wonder how it holds up to heat, moisture, how likely it is to harbor microorganisms?Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
I don't know, but I have a hunch.
I laughed, proving…something bad about me.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Never knew that. I thought the gowns and drapes were ordinary paper.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
My wife was hired to shake things up as OR manager in a place that had gotten seriously behind the times. But when she tried to switch from cloth drapes and gowns to disposable the old nurses ran her out.
The disposables are a lot of waste but it's cheaper than buying and processing cloth and when it comes to health care cutting costs trumps waste.
Unused lap sponges from an opened package make excellent rags for furniture finishing. A lot of other OR stuff gets reused out of the hospital if it's not soiled--stuff that otherwise would get tossed.
What does it mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
Not that long ago each hospital had autoclaves. They sterilized their own shit. Now it’s sealed sterilized plastic disposable waste.
The guy who works in the hospital is trying to tell you they still use the autoclave on all the metal instruments they always used them for. Plastic woven into paper for durability creates a lot of waste - see his earlier post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
When you think of old medical settings it seems plastic replaced a lot of glass, like the canister of a syringe or a specimen collection jar. But, I have no idea what they used for canulas before plastics. Not to mention how much of the reusable equipment like rebreathers and other pumps are mostly plastic. I don’t go into a hospital much, but every time I do I look around and think about it. From the vinyl covers on the furniture to the vinyl flooring, plastic barrier shields, all the jars, bedpans, cups from the mess hall.
I always get absolutely baffled trying to think of a modern world without plastics, vinyl, all petro products. Not the junk, like toys that could easily go back to wood and metal, but stuff like your refrigerator, electrical outlets, casing on electrical wire, and the list goes on and on…
Cannulas were rubber and steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsparkco
From the standpoint of someone who has been on the receiving end of too many needles, single use needles are the greatest invention since penicillin.
My dad used to give all the cousins our shots--glass syringes and dull needles boiling on the stove made it hard to enjoy dinner. Those shots hurt a lot more than they do now.
hospitals still have autoclaves -Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
All the stainless and other alloy or metal surgical equipment still gets Sterilized
roll on, CS
skiJ
Makes sense that rubber existed long before modern PVC. I bet those were fun to clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
I forget how latex allergies used to be such a big thing when real rubber was more common.
By “not that long ago” you mean earlier today?Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
Plastics get autoclaved everyday, Including autoclaving the plastic medical waste prior to biohazard disposal, at each hospital.
Pesky OSHA reqs and what not.