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Unless towing regularly or hauling heavy stuff regularly, I don't think I'd want any modern diesel. None of them seem reliable - and repairs can be extremely expensive.
21 mpg diesel vs 14 mpg gas sounds pretty good, except for the up front $8K purchase price, the more expensive fuel and oil changes, and the fun of unexpected $$$$$ repairs that may or may not crop up.
YMMV.
KBB says my tundra is an 11k trade in value. It's got almost 215k miles on it now. 2012 Rock Warrior. Paint is pretty beat (it's black), interior is fine just needs cleaning, some wheel well plastic fender material is missing, needs a new windshield. Mechanically totally sound. I can get it detailed for $700. Not sure if that's even worth doing before a trade in or not. Does the dealer really care? They would detail it anyway and I'm sure they just plug numbers in and give me a price. I don't think I will really recoup that $700. Not sure.
They don't. Don't do anything more than run it through the car wash and maybe a quick shop vac.
What do you get for a $700 detail?! I haven't been in the detail market but that seems crazy high.
If you have one close, get a price from CarMax.
We had an unexpectedly great experience selling my late FIL's inherited car there, they paid over KBB by quite a bit for a fairly new econobox a couple of years ago.
Granted, I know the market has cooled since then, but worth a visit to their website to get a quote.
Process itself was really painless, got an online quote, made and online appointment, had the car washed, went there and they inspected it and cut us a check for the full amount. Done. 1 hr.
Granted the car was in as new condition so there was nothing to debate, so that simplified matters.
No kidding - I would think it would come with a blow job for that price
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Yeah it's a 7-8 hour hands on detail. I have to call around and see if anyone is cheaper. If not I'll just try to do it myself if we get enough dry pavement so I can get from the carwash to my house or warm enough out that I can run the pressure washer in the driveway.
IME - At that price they take the seats out…
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That's about the going rate right now for that level of detail. I work with a few detailers. If you want the good detail of a fancy new car that is pretty dirty, $700 is about right on.
And yeah, I wouldn't clean anything up on a trade in. I also wouldn't trade in unless your time is worth more than what you would get on the private market. I traded in a POS ford to a ford dealership and had the codes wiped right before I drove it there. I didn't want to sell it private because it had issues.
No shit. I wasn't disagreeing. I was saying the same thing. They're gonna scan it for DTC codes, make sure the interior is intact and put it on a semi within a week. They're not even looking in the glove box. You'd be hard pressed to get your $700 back even if you sold it private party.
I sold a car through AutoNation, a CarMax competitor last summer, and it was a good experience. I got the CarMax price, then prices from competitors, then haggled with one of them which gave me a slightly better price that CarMax. When I factored in the time, cost and hassle to clean and detail the car, I realized that the extra $1,000 - $1,500 I might get selling it private party was not worth it at all. I delivered the car to a dealership that was buying cars, it was very dirty, and got paid within two hours. It was great. 100% recommend.
Last summer, dealerships were buying for ridiculous prices just trying to boost inventory so they didn't have empty lots. It was weird, but worked out well for some of us who wanted to sell.
This was my experience too. But I don't think you can expect crazy offers today when selling or trading.
In Oct 2022, I traded in a F350 that I had owned for a year, had it about 10K miles, I had paid about $53K with taxes for it. Traded for $57K on a new car - paid full MSRP, but got a 100% sales tax offset, and a check back from the dealer for the excess (new car was a good bit less). So that worked out nicely.
Yeah, nice, my payment on my Taco was at 1.9% so that basically made me money vs inflation and the market.
I've got a work van that I'm considering trading in for a truck this year. Kind of expecting to get screwed on that one but it was already depreciated so recapture won't be that bad if I show a loss? I tell myself this anyway, I'm a shitty accountant.
Tundras and super duties are still seeing pretty high demand and holding above average resale. I know that only because my buddy just sold a tundra and another friend of mine is a GM at a Ford dealership. Ford didn't build enough SDs last year to meet demand (over estimated EV and Hybrid demand) so they're still hot cakes. And Tundras are to going to Tundra.
I don't know if that's true with other trucks or not.
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This popped up. Our old Farrellones rig, Nissan Patrol. 4 speed with a donkey gear for the 42 switchbacks. Cabin completely buried, and yes, Killy stretch pants.
Attachment 487182
…Quote:
Toyota is issuing a recall of about 381,000 Tacoma pickup trucks from the 2022 and 2023 model years to fix a potential issue with the rear axle. The automaker said in a statement that leftover welding debris on the rear axle "could cause certain retaining nuts to loosen over time and eventually fall off," which could hamper the truck's stability and braking performance and increase the likelihood of a crash.
There is this too.
https://tfltruck.com/2024/02/toyota-...recall-update/
Seems like an easy software fix though.
I'm still on the fence between 22+ Tundra or 20+ Silverado/Sierra 2500. I need to get a tractor this spring to mow and work on the new property. We will need a bigger camper. Everything is pointing to a 2500.....but I really want a diesel.
- Hearing horror stories about the new cummins always being in the shop (my brother's 2018 3500 and his 2024 3500 have both had MANY issues.....diesels). My dad has had several chevy gassers and they all have run 250k-300k miles with basically no problems.
- The gassers get 9mpg towing? I don't plan to tow very much, but will a handful of times per year. I assume that also means with any decent camper in the bed it would get 9mpg. Thats rough.
- The newer Tundras seem to have way nicer interiors than the newest Chevys unless you go full retired oil tycoon and get a 120k Denali Ultimate package.
To camp, presumably in a truck camper, one needs payload and that indicates a 3/4 or 1 T. The best deal right now on a SD or HD is a Chevy Custom gasser. It doesn't have the new interior or the fancy screen, just plain old gauges. Can be upgraded to 1T running gear and payload w the trailering package.
The mpg difference btwn gas and diesel is small. Diesel costs more than gas and you have to add def to the cost per mile which now favors the gasser on a cost per mile basis. Oil changes are more expensive on diesels. I would never buy a RAM, but would consider Ford for certain use cases like a really heavy TC or frequent heavy towing. I just bought a Chevy 3500 to use w a TC after much research so I'm up on the current offerings.
Get a diesel tractor for the estate, where the diesel torque really counts for something every time it's used.
I have run diesel Kubota tractors and really like them and am leaning that way.
This seems like a good value and is just down the road from my house.
https://www.snydermotors.com/used/GM...20c89a7b2b.htm
I owned a Kubota 22hp diesel, 4x4 and it was awesome for blowing snow and yard work w the loader.
When you go look at the GMC check the door sticker for the payload. The crew cab, 8' bed is what you need/want to haul a truck camper.
Hopeless Sinner—actually the mpg difference with diesel is significant. IME for same vehicle and payload the diesel gets 30% better mpg in mixed driving. DEF over the last 7 yrs has cost me less than 0.2 cents a mile, ie it’s irrelevant. I’m assuming anyone with a triple digit IQ buys DEF from a pump not a bottle at auto zone.
For my mostly CA/NV/OR driving, diesel was generally cheaper over the last 7 yrs particularly in summer. Sometimes a full dollar cheaper, more typically 50 cents. Ukraine war changed that but the cost last 2 yrs has been similar to RUG.
I recognize that there are regions where diesel is often more expensive that gas, I’m just pointing out that sweeping generalizations need to be taken with a grain of salt.
For a while I kept a spreadsheet on this stuff, back when I was driving more. Pencilled out to approx $10,000 savings cumulatively for me for my rig. The DEF/ DPF / EGR system on my Ford has another 76k miles under warranty, about 8 yrs from now, but if hypothetically I’m throwing 5 grand in repairs at a 17 yr old rig down the road I’m still coming out way ahead.
YMMV.
I personally would not buy any modern diesel unless I absolutely needed the towing capability - and needed to use it very often, if not daily. It's not just operating costs or even up front purchase cost that scares me away - - it's the complexity and frequency of very expensive part failures.
If you just "want" a diesel, you don't need a diesel.
On truck camper usage: note that diesel engines weigh a lot more than the gas option in a pickup, and that eats into payload. It's possible to get a Ram Cummins 2500 4WD truck that has lower payload than my Honda Ridgeline.
On crew cab long beds: consider turn radius if you're looking at these. I didn't pay attention to that, and bought a 4WD F350 crew cab with an 8' bed for carrying a truck camper. It was horrible to park or even maneuver when camping. I assume some of that was due to the wheelbase, some to the solid front axle (so pay attention if considering Ram), and it may be better on the GM trucks with IFS.
My advice is strictly for WRG and what I presume his uses are and what I've gleaned about his life over the few years I've been on TGR.
Right now I own a diesel van which i've put 25k miles on from traveling ID/NV/CA and OR. I've never once paid less for diesel than gas was at the same station in the last 3 years. My new truck is a diesel to eke out a few more miles of range in the empty places I like to hang out, specifically NV so I do recognize the mpg advantage, as to 30% better mpg - I hope so. I buy def from the pump as well, but my IQ is more in the range of the speed limit.
In the short run WRG would need to come up w $10K to buy a diesel so a $10k savings over a number of miles and years ahead doesn't make sense to me for him. He needs a tractor- those aren't cheap, and he's got a new 4 acre estate to get organized so cash in the pocket (or a lower truck payment) is king, imho, for him. He has a job where he only eats what he kills so that's another factor.
A 2024 Chevy 2500 Custom gasser has an MSRP of $56,500. I figure that's gonna be able to be purchased at $54,000 or perhaps less. Rumors have it that a dealer in CDA is giving much more off than $2500.
Whatever you save in mpg you are going to lose in increased maintenance.
I mean just look at this cat:
Attachment 488466
Those go for over 2k used on ebay alone, let alone new, nevermind all the other systems. Then you have basics like ball joints and front end rebuilds that run you 5 grand plus.
I would go gas if you are only towing a handful of times a year. Not sure how much you intend to use the camper but I can't see it being enough to justify.
As far as repairs I have my fingers crossed and I agree w the sentiment.
The trucks w diesel engines get a higher GVWR so the diesel doesn't eat into payload. My 1T diesel moderately equipped has a payload of 4121lbs. The disadvantage of the weight comes into play w off roading though and I think that's a very significant disadvantage of the diesel.
A sprinter is 20' and a Crew cab, w 8' bed is 22'. Chevy's short bed is 6' 10" so not really that big a deal. I'd get the long bed, and cut down to a double cab or a regular cab before I gave up the 8' bed though if maneuverability was a big concern.
Two other considerations:
- Persistently cold climates are easier with gas. Less warmup time, no plugins, etc.
- Expected life of the truck. Commercial outfits deep in the rust belt often go gas because the truck is not around long enough to realize substantive benefit.
I like diesels but don't like dailying them.
I can't emphasize this enough on the turn radius: don't make assumptions based on the overall length alone.
My old truck was an extended cab GMC Sierra 2500 4WD from 2000, with an 8' bed. Turn radius was manageable - I could park between other vehicles in a parking lot, I could pull out of a crowded ski area lot. The Ford F30 crew cab was only a little longer overall, being a crew cab vs extended, but the turn radius made it impossible to park between other vehicles that were already parked. Trying to place a trailer became many multi point turns back and forth.
I now have a slightly newer and slightly shorter version of the old GMC for camper use, and it's as maneuverable as any half ton in parking and camper positioning.
I really can't stress this enough. Test drive one of these if at all possible, before buying.
Also, re pricing: if WRG wants a Ford, you used to be able to get invoice pricing on orders, easily, by joining the Mustang Club. I did that for my truck order during COVID, when inventory didn't exist, and pricing was nuts everywhere. I don't know how it is today - maybe you can just go through Costco or easily find sub-invoice pricing like pre-COVID times.
My totaled 2021 Carhart 2500 diesel with 61k miles was valued at a $63k loss. I paid $77k for it. That is $.22.9 per mile over a roughly 3-year period.
Both of my trucks were crew cab with short beds. The '24 has a slightly better turning radius than the '21, but both suck. Always looking to back them in because pulling them in never seems to work without two or three attempts to straighten them up.
This ^^
I bought 2 diesel VW golfs and drove them for work did the depreciation/ write down kept careful track of all costs to claim on my taxes It was not hard to compare to a small car burning RUG
So in 2001 & 2002 D was consistently an average of 12cents a liter cheaper in Northern BC than RUG and I did the cocktail napkin math on that basis which told me it would make financial sense but in practise not by much when compared to running to say a non-diesel Golf or Honda Civic
If RUG was the same as D it would not be cheaper and looking at fuel prices now D is usually > RUG
Diesel is roughy $0.50 more expensive than RUG here at the moment. I haven't tracked it thought to see if that's the norm or not.
The upfront savings on a gasser vs a diesel would go towards a newer lightweight camper and the tractor. I have a barn to store the camper covered so spending 30 minutes to put it in the bed wouldn't be a huge deal. In reality I use my GFC 8-10 times per year. With an actual hardsided camper I think we would use it a bit more in the winter at the ski hill.
i was a road warrior with no other needs but to save money while sitting in a car I didnt mind driving, if you need the ability to haul that adds another parameter to the equation which we didnt have
so there were 8 other IBM techs doing the same gig as I driving huge distaances in remote BC collecting expenses on a sliding scale and they all ended up running TDi's cuz it was the cheapest vehical to operate
But at the time D was 50 cents a liter cheaper an as RUG and D started to cost the same there was no savings and i probably wouldn't have bought another TDi
Before Revenue Canada got wise to us and cracked down on regular drivers one of the guys was drivivng a TDi in the west Kootenys doing HUGE kms and he made enough money on expenses to pay for the VW AND buy a new Harley dresserwhich was i think 12K at the time