Where Do You Draw The Line On Drug Legality?

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Originally Posted by tgapp

i'm not sure if you mean abuse in the sense of "taking too much" or "taking too often", but if you mean the latter category of abuse, i certainly know people who fall into that trap - rolling becomes a prerequisite for any sort of good time, especially one involving sex or intimacy. in my personal list, mdma is a drug whose habit forming potential is strong enough to be taken seriously (like heroin, cocaine, or amphetamines - thought likely lower than all three in severity).

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Sure, I'm having a bit of provocative fun here. But, as someone who is well acquainted with physically addictive substances, I can't put MDMA in the same category. It's a different situation to say where you take opiates, build tolerance and then then have to take increasing more to satisfy the habit. With molly, my experience is - once you blasted your serotonin taking more ain't going to do much on that front. It's self-regulating to an extent. Of course, people can misuse it, there's "some sort" of toxicity level and who knows how pure or stepped on your junk is.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Fun fact: "Dice" is plural, "die" is the singular.

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Well shit, you learn something every day... Explains the die is cast which never made sense to me.

Snipped the rest of your post but it was also very informative. Ultimately it's an insanely complex issue with no easy solution, the only thing that is clear is that the current approach is fucked. If something changes we'll roll with it cause what else can we do?

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Well shit, you learn something every day... Explain the die is cast

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They must have just been rolling *one*... :D

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Originally Posted by ötzi

My long-held take (I'd be surprised if I didn't say it somewhere earlier in the thread) is they should ban alcohol and legalize everything else.

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Slight twist: legalize everything and people will realize alcohol is kind of a shitty drug and use way less of it in favor of better alternatives?

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Originally Posted by Boissal

the only thing that is clear is that the current approach is fucked.

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by Carl_Mega

Sure, I'm having a bit of provocative fun here. But, as someone who is well acquainted with physically addictive substances, I can't put MDMA in the same category. It's a different situation to say where you take opiates, build tolerance and then then have to take increasing more to satisfy the habit. With molly, my experience is - once you blasted your serotonin taking more ain't going to do much on that front. It's self-regulating to an extent. Of course, people can misuse it, there's "some sort" of toxicity level and who knows how pure or stepped on your junk is.

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Hallucinogens are similar in my experience. Taking acid 2 days in a row was a waste. You had to have at least a day or two buffer between trips.


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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

They must have just been rolling *one*... :D

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Damn it, I meant to say "[it] explainS the die is cast", as in I now understand what that particular expression means.
Clearly I need to take more drugs if I am to continue posting in this thread, maybe it will fix my spelling.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Damn it, I meant to say "[it] explainS the die is cast", as in I now understand what that particular expression means.
Clearly I need to take more drugs if I am to continue posting in this thread, maybe it will fix my spelling.

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Mmm... drugs... :D

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Originally Posted by ötzi

From that article:

"From the results of the tests, Larson says that about half the time people who are trying to buy heroin end up with fentanyl. Those who are trying to buy fentanyl could end up buying a deadly dose of benzodiazepine".

Well, what if you want to buy benzos? Do they give you heroin? This seems like mainly a labeling problem, let's get the FDA on that.

My long-held take (I'd be surprised if I didn't say it somewhere earlier in the thread) is they should ban alcohol and legalize everything else.

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After a 24 year benzo addiction I’ll never ever touch that shit again. Doc started me on it. I damn near took myself out quitting it.
For me it was the absolute worst drug, after starting as what I felt was the best for me.

MDMA scares me too when my brain just loves it almost too much.

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Originally Posted by AK47bp

Hallucinogens are similar in my experience. Taking acid 2 days in a row was a waste. You had to have at least a day or two buffer between trips.

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Just gotta take more the second day.

But you're right...waiting is better.

The recent Hamilton's Pharmacopeia episode about meth tests the resolve of even a man of my conviction. Damn that was hard to watch at times. Still though, I think those nutty tweakers (and society in general) would be better off having legal access to crystal instead of doing sketchy AF chemistry in their houses.

http://youtu.be/SioZ2-fxhuw

The word "legal" is a bit loaded in this context, and in case it wasn't clear while I favor "legalization" for everything I don't necessarily mean applying the cannabis model across the board. A better way to say it is something like "Non-criminal, with a well regulated non-medical marketplace." Simple decriminalization doesn't stop those tweakers from doing sketchy amateur chemistry.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

The recent Hamilton's Pharmacopeia episode about meth tests the resolve of even a man of my conviction. Damn that was hard to watch at times. Still though, I think those nutty tweakers (and society in general) would be better off having legal access to crystal instead of doing sketchy AF chemistry in their houses.

http://youtu.be/SioZ2-fxhuw

The word "legal" is a bit loaded in this context, and in case it wasn't clear while I favor "legalization" for everything I don't necessarily mean applying the cannabis model across the board. A better way to say it is something like "Non-criminal, with a well regulated non-medical marketplace." Simple decriminalization doesn't stop those tweakers from doing sketchy amateur chemistry.

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Hard to stuff the genie back in the bottle now, but if amphetamines had been legal to start with, you dont get meth. Same with crack & other street drugs, if good pharma grade drugs are available why bother.

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

Hard to stuff the genie back in the bottle now, but if amphetamines had been legal to start with, you dont get meth. Same with crack & other street drugs, if good pharma grade drugs are available why bother.

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This is bs. Methamphetimine has been around a long time. We used to use all the time in the Bay Area in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s. It was a ubiquitous party drug. Almost no one was addicted or “speed freak”. The precursors were easy to come by and it was clean and cheap.

Shit got bad when the DEA cracked down and quality declined. That’s what led to the “meth epidemic”.

You used to be able to buy over the counter or have prescribed methamphetamine in this country.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

This is bs. Methamphetimine has been around a long time. We used to use all the time in the Bay Area in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s. It was a ubiquitous party drug. Almost no one was addicted or “speed freak”. The precursors were easy to come by and it was clean and cheap.

Shit got bad when the DEA cracked down and quality declined. That’s what led to the “meth epidemic”.

You used to be able to buy over the counter or have prescribed methamphetamine in this country.

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I think you guys are on the same page. :eats diet pills:

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

This is bs. Methamphetimine has been around a long time. We used to use all the time in the Bay Area in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s. It was a ubiquitous party drug. Almost no one was addicted or “speed freak”. The precursors were easy to come by and it was clean and cheap.

Shit got bad when the DEA cracked down and quality declined. That’s what led to the “meth epidemic”.

You used to be able to buy over the counter or have prescribed methamphetamine in this country.

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I met quite a number of speed freaks from the bay area in the late 80s. However you and woodsy said basically the same thing.

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

I think you guys are on the same page. :eats diet pills:

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I like to crush mine up and snort em

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

You used to be able to buy over the counter or have prescribed methamphetamine in this country.

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Still available via prescription, it's a Schedule II drug. The brand name is Desoxyn.

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Originally Posted by riser3

I met quite a number of speed freaks from the bay area in the late 80s. However you and woodsy said basically the same thing.

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No, he said if amphetamines had been made available then you wouldn’t have meth. Methamphetamine isn’t just a street drug. It’s been around since 1893.


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

No, he said if amphetamines had been made available then you wouldn’t have meth. Methamphetamine isn’t just a street drug. It’s been around since 1893.


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Oh, FFS, he's talking about the same damn thing. He's talking about bathtub drugs and the whole culture surrounding it. You are talking past each other.

apologies
my use of "meth" was referring to crystal, battub speed, tha pink shit, ya know Crank

Others understood this, but since you insist on being pedantic, from now on when we discus Attachment 360920 I will refer to it as Attachment 360920 so your panties can stay unwadded

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Still available via prescription, it's a Schedule II drug. The brand name is Desoxyn.

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One of my college roommates had a prescription for VAST amounts of dexedrine and she was very generous. My god I loved that shit, I used to write long-ass papers in one sitting with a few dexedrine and 3-4 red bulls. :eek:

DTM, what I'm struggling with is how having access to the real deal is going to improve things for the people in the video. Is the clean stuff going to make them less batshit crazy? It seems to me that even with some sort of legalization that for some folks shit is going to start going sideways and they will wind up sitting in their living room in firefighter turnouts mixing batteries and drain cleaner? How much worse that is than pounding a half gallon of cheap vodka I'm not sure.

Edit: And Uncle Fester's book is still available on Amazon.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

One of my college roommates had a prescription for VAST amounts of dexedrine and she was very generous. My god I loved that shit, I used to write long-ass papers in one sitting with a few dexedrine and 3-4 red bulls. :eek:

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For every toothless tweaker out there there's probably 10 stories like this, probably many more--people who hit it, quit it, and moved on.

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Originally Posted by John_B

It seems to me that even with some sort of legalization that for some folks shit is going to start going sideways and they will wind up sitting in their living room in firefighter turnouts mixing batteries and drain cleaner? How much worse that is than pounding a half gallon of cheap vodka I'm not sure.

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How many drunks blow themselves up or end up with methanol poisoning running stills in their houses? Not many.

Compared to stimulant users alcoholics do have the distinct advantage that they end up falling asleep. It may not be quality sleep, but they get some sleep every day. Tweakers will stay up for days on end and that level of sleep deprivation does horrific things to people.

Indy in the mid 70s, pharma Speed was everywhere and cheap.

Black Beauties, Desoxyns, white crosses you name it and then this chick gave me a bottle of some pills called Fastin.

She was kinda midwest hefty and said they were prescribed to her sister who she said was fat. Kept you moving right along.

Even with all the cheap pills, speeding never really had that much appeal. Once they re-scheduled Amphetamines and the pharma supply dried up and it was all bath tub speed I lost all interest.

Same with downers. I wasn't much into them but the ladies really liked Quaalude's so ya gotta participate.

Lot of people who can use drugs/alcohol responsibly, a lot cannot.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

This is bs. Methamphetimine has been around a long time. We used to use all the time in the Bay Area in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s. It was a ubiquitous party drug. Almost no one was addicted or “speed freak”. The precursors were easy to come by and it was clean and cheap.

Shit got bad when the DEA cracked down and quality declined. That’s what led to the “meth epidemic”.

You used to be able to buy over the counter or have prescribed methamphetamine in this country.

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Those were the good old days. East Bay boy, so I did my fair share, but when I got to CO, I just stopped doing it...nbd really. Came across some CO home batch or something, and it was madman. No thank you.

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Originally Posted by SkiBall

Came across some CO home batch or something, and it was madman. No thank you.

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Do any of you guys remember this Westword article? 'upscale' Denver meth use was def. a thing even in the Y2K.

https://www.westword.com/news/72-hou...people-5075797

"It comes wrapped in red foil and purple tissue, this intricate figurine molded in the form of a Japanese demon, with clawed feet, a mane of fire and a thick tongue jutting from a bloodthirsty smirk. Transparent, the size of a child's fist, it looks like a tiny ice carving or a statuette of glass. It is neither. In fact, it is 25 grams (a little less than one ounce) of nearly 100 percent pure crystallized methamphetamine hydrochloride, known on the streets of Asia as "Shabu.""