different builders / different schedulesQuote:
Originally Posted by ARL67
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different builders / different schedulesQuote:
Originally Posted by ARL67
True that the $699 price is still displayed for FR and Carbon models, but those skis also say "SOLD OUT" and the website no longer provides a way to buy those models.Quote:
Originally Posted by ARL67
Since yesterday, it appears only the 188cm R99 and 185cm R120 are still available for order. Go buy those final few pairs! :)
https://heritagelabskis.com/products...41344513540284
https://heritagelabskis.com/products/r120
.
I am so excited about this project that I resurrected my dead account from a decade ago just to say I'm in. R99 at 188. If there are any leftovers will also go for the R120s - that's the ski I really want and man I dig the top sheet. Love it.
So freaking psyched.
Welcome to the cult! Å
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Anyone in the know have a good description for how the L120 (C120) ski? I’ve been on L138s but looking for a storm day and few days after ski here in Tahoe. Do the C120s prefer big open terrain or are they more versatile than what I’m thinking?
120 is hard to explain.
Some really love. Others are meh.
1. It’s a really large radius. So on groomers you have to tail skid. Old school. Or. You carve enormous huge radius turns. Very fast. But very fun. It’s a downhill race ski. But 120 wide.
2. The tip splay is awesome. Extra float when you need it.
It’s also a pintail shape.
In pow you can load up on shin or ball of foot pressure. Again. It’s old school.
3. It does slarve. Somewhat. But you have to be moving. 138 can slarve at zero speed. 120 needs medium speed.
I can ski pretty tight trees on the 200cm.
I’ve been skiing it in storms and after. Mostly due to family luggage issues. Inbounds after a storm I’d rather be on damp metal. But I make it work on the 120.
Really interested in the Freeride non carbon layup.
Next year I’ll see how that feels. It’s ordered.
Carbon is a good touring ski. If it’s more inbounds go FR.
Right on, thanks. This will be purely a touring ski so not too worried about dampness. More as to if it’s happy skiing trees on high avy days or if it’s really more of an open ‘er up and ski fall line ski.
It’s definitely an open it up fall line ski in powder.
But you can make it go tighter.
It’s just way happier going down the line.
The 120s are fast. Trees? Sure. It is just at warp speed. Do most anything only on fast forward. I call them foot missiles. Pow helps as it slows everything down. As soon as it’s not pow and gets choppy they continue to devour all in their path but it gets sped up to rodeo levels. If you have space - whatever - it is fast super fun charge the shit out of all in your way and throw that long radius around with leg saving gs turns through chop. With a huge blank steep canvas they are stable, nimble, playful and asking for more. As it gets tight or technical it changes things since the terrain changes but the speed doesn’t. You can scrub speed fairly easily with the pin tails but as soon as the tips shift toward the fall line you’re once again hauling ass. Pitch a factor of course but aren’t really built for meadow skipping. They demand and reward strong skiing by an in-shape determined driver. Fully belong in the heritage collection but as I age they humble me.Attachment 406648Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Aren't the C/FR120s sold out? Give in, get the R120s and go monster trucking [emoji869]
Foot missiles
Lol
I’m stealing that phrase.
And yet. I find the L120 way easier to ski than some of the classic full metal Free ride tour chargers.
The R120 race room metal would kill me. Getting older. Oh well. That ski is full on foot missile. Godspeed to you all that buy and ride them. Looks like fun.
Every ski has a Personality. You adapt and like it. Or you fight it and hate it.
Good description. I ride the same gen 120s as you (also tele) and they are the fastest accelerating ski I have been on. As soon as you point them down hill its warp factor 10 Mr. Sulu. Super fun straightlining from untracked pocket to untracked pocket and throwing them sideways when you get there. They scrub speed pretty well when sideways and are easy enough to slash but speed is definitely needed to make them work. "Fast forward" is an excellent way to put it. So good that I bought a backup pair this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doremite
You don’t like your l138 for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Several years ago, I loaned clydesdad my l138 and he had a loaner pair of l120 already. All tele, about 1.5 months, nearly daily touring, general wet late winter/early spring storm cycle. south lake tahoe zones. When all was said and done, he’d found himself a pair of (used) l138 r1’s for himself, finding them more versatile and enjoyable for Tahoe 3D snow backcountry conditions.
R120 is still available for purchase on website at https://heritagelabskis.com/products/r120Quote:
Originally Posted by puhisurfer
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Now that I broke a rib and am taking it easy for the remainder of the season, I have time to wait for a firm snow ski.
Marshal, the R87 is sold out: any ability to get in on an order? How are you handling next batches? I’d say the longer the better for me. Just want to see if it’s an option at this point.
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I do! But I don’t like them so much heading back to the trailhead after things have gotten tracked out and sometimes 138 underfoot is a little unwieldy on the up. It’s a great ski regardless and I’m probably just being nitpicky.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Hello Everyone! Just wanted to share a quick update on this project.
Summary: Some good news and some bad news.
BAD NEWS FIRST:
After ironing out a number of wrinkles the past few weeks, I ran into a couple with the Carbon and Freeride skis that I am challenged to navigate. The planned factory has booked out its capacity much faster than any previous year, so I have not yet been able to secure production I hope to have that landed in July, but delivery could get pushed into 2023… (sigh)…
In addition to this, I am hearing feedback time and time again to make unique shapes rather than strictly remakes since the reality is everyone likes the idea of the heritage skis, but all of them need tweaks anyway.
So punchline, with the uncertainty on delivery/timing, I refunding the orders with the C and FR skis for now, and re-open orders once I get more clarity. I just don’t feel right holding onto folks' $ until it is more locked in.
GOOD NEWS:
The good news is the Raceroom skis are all on track and I actually have a small window to add a few more orders to that program (til the end of next week). As such, I have extended the preorder $699 price on that whole group of skis until Sunday March 6th. Get your crud blasters and freepiste shredders!
Thank you kindly for your support of this project, I truly appreciate it. The kind words are very meaningful to me, so grateful to everyone on these and many other ski forums. As soon as I can lock in the production more concretely, I will re-open the C and FR ski offerings!
All the best,
Marshal
Well there were always going to be hiccups, right? Better to have them now than later. I'll be looking forward to applying my refund to another model. Thanks
Cheers man, thanks! Totally agree.
Thanks for the transparency.
A little bummed but still stoked for the r99s.
Solid upfront move.
Stoked for the R99’s and bet some others jump on that ski now.
Hope things can move along more smoothly Marshal.
I’ll hold out; as soon as you get a manufacture lined up for the 138s I’m in
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I like the transparency and I love this project. Already in for R99s, about to go for the R120s as well. I am so psyched for that ski. It's gonna kick my ass, but I can't wait.
And I like the pink.
Same hereQuote:
Originally Posted by SkiLyft
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I just want the old L120 shape.
DPS blew it when they added too much rocker.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Highmen
Carbon, 190 cm, please.
Thanks for the good vibes and constructive feedback. Really appreciate it. Please keep posting your thoughts!
To add just a little more context, I read a very interesting article about Cascade Designs, which makes aftermarket replacement parts for mountain bike frames. They have unwittingly opened a pandora's box in the cycling industry. I have also been paying close attention to the homage watch world as well. The Heritage Lab ski project is intended to be something I personally stand behind, and something I truly believe in doing. I want to honor the spirit of skis long since dead, but do not want to inadvertently open my own pandora's box. I love skiing and the ski industry too much for that. There are just things that need to be updated on most of these old skis (ie. nobody is lining up for skis with a -14.5 mount point!), and it becomes blurry really quickly, even on one small design choice, if it is a remake or some something new. The last thing I want to do is miss-lead anyone.
Once I can re-secure manufacturing for the Carbon and Freeride skis, my plan is to offer a unique reverse/reverse shape, as well as a unique 113mm directional pintail powder charger w/ long running length and minimal rocker. I have been discussing the directional powder charger at length with Arild, building on his GFB project from last year. This was set to be the next Heritage Lab ski anyhow, with both Carbon and Freeride layups.
I totally get folks being bummed by all of this, for that I do apologize. It is not easy to make the call to shift the gears like this, so please respect that this isn't a decision made lightly. I know many are eager to ski on impossible to find personal favorites, so the one thing I will ALWAYS stand behind is that my designs will ski really well. I am willing to take back any HL ski that doesn't meet your expectation or mesh with your style, even if you bought it second hand (see the satisfaction guarantee on the site).
I love talking skis, am an open book, and will share more as this flushes in. I am really grateful to all of your feedback. Along with posting, please feel free to call/text/dm/email me with questions.
Same here. Good luck and keep us posted marshallQuote:
Originally Posted by Chuxson
Got a link to that Cascade article? Peaked my interest there.
cascade components?
Not going to say much, but I need to stress that what marshal has up his sleeve is truly, truly awesome. Both skis he mentioned. Or all, for that matter. They'll even have awesome graphics, so you'll know I had nothing to do with just that.
I have no biases to report, other than helping a bit with the 113 waist directional pow chargers. No financial gain, but look forward to seeing MO succeed with HLS.
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+3 or 4 or whatever. The old L120 shape is as close to perfection as it gets for a Wasatch touring ski. The foot rocket term posted earlier is spot on. These things kept getting better and better as speed increased and despite their size they were manageable even when skiing out a hiking trail like MillB.Quote:
Originally Posted by byates1
When I retired my pair I basically quit skiing anything over 105 underfoot as the Lotus ruined any touring fat ski for me. I liked the Down CD114 which was quite a bit lighter but ultimately missed the shape of the Lotus120 so much that I gave up on having a quiver and learned to love my CD104 even in deep snow... I'd be happy to fix this issue though, having only 1 pair of skis feels so wrong!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Maybe I missed this earlier, but are you testing these new designs before production time? Or are the customers going to be the first to put the skis on snow?
I am not questioning your experience with ski design. But from my own path as a design engineer, I am familiar with the challenge of truly nailing a product on the first cycle when testing isn't involved.
Thanks again for the upfront clarity and I hope you can get the production sorted out for the carbon models.
-s
113mm directional pow charger is SO intriguing....
It was a paywall article on Beta. https://www.betamtb.com/news-issues/...ould-go-wrong/Quote:
Originally Posted by Phall
This article is more about warranty than anything, but I see an adversarial relationship forming between brands and Cascade. I am friends with most product managers in the ski industry and have no desire to inadvertently tarnish a long term relationship with anyone.
Thanks, bummer about the paywall, should probably support that team though. I totally agree, I've always wondered how that will shake out with Cascade. It was one thing before all the cool kids/social media shredders wanted to make their bikes different. I remember running offset hardware on a OG Tallboy LT, and the headaches it caused when I mentioned it to an industry friend at Santa Cruz. I can only imagine the headaches a company Cascade is causing to those brands these days. I can see your point about ski industry too, and know you'll make the right calls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
[/end drift]
Good question, thanks for asking. Just to be explicit:Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
The raceroom skis are pre-existing molds and flex patterns built to my material spec. The first batch will deliver to me for final inspection and verification before shipping to any customers, but I have not skied this specification to date. I do hope to have that opportunity to ski the beta skis this spring, but cannot confirm it and am not marketing it as such.
The carbon and freeride skis will be first run with new molds, which have not been cut, meaning they are Beta release. Alpha testing (fit and finish samples, graphic samples, core profile, flex and camber, etc) is being done before production of Beta release.
Within my own product management experience, I do see skis differently than more complicated and manufactured/tolerance-based structures (in my world, that is Mountain Biking + Cut & Sew). Happy to expand on that if you wanted, but that could be a big rabbit hole! haha.
Thanks for the response. And yeah, I can appreciate the difference, with the performance of a ski depending on myriad subjective inputs that are much less definite than with some other sort of machine. More of an art.
Pink 120’s ordered. Sound like a bad ass DD at snowbird
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You bet man!Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Edit to add... my comments should also highlight the difference between soft snow and hard snow skis from my perspective.
Specific to soft snow / freeride skis, where the driving performance is macro geometry, flex pattern, stiffness, materials, and base/edge prep. It is interesting to note how many soft snow skis totally nail it on their first go, and actually get diluted by "updates" through time.
This is very different on hard snow skis, which is why I was so keen to partner with Blossom's expertise and proven shapes/designs. I know the macro in this area, but they are experts in the micro-factors and how they interplay.
Anyhow, not trying to be salesy or anything, just sharing my .02!