Printable View
Right on. Hope you sort it out with those. Oddly I’m on my second season on my ravens. Maybe 75 days on them. And I loved them for almost all of them. I just swapped my liners for tour wraps and i feel like I’m learning to ski again.
Something about the liners make me feel like im standing so upright, there’s definitely more foam on my shins now.
I suddenly feel like the ski is way more sensitive to my balance, whereas before it felt fairly effortless.
7 days in on 184s and am pondering moving the mount back 1 or 1.5 from rec. I’m 5’8”, 140 with a 24.5 zgtp, so theoretically the line should be perfect for my fun size. Bindings are atk/hagan core 12s with toe shims, and boots are in the more upright lean. In pure pow, they’re great so long as you don’t get forward even a little (front of ski bogs down). On harder snow - even icy volcano garbage - they’re bizarrely good. In anything 3d and funky or cut up - anything not great pow skiing perfectly centered or slightly back or hard pack, they don’t have that loose/slarvy thing that they’re supposed to. They don’t feel at all quick in the trees if it’s not perfect snow. My fucking 184 metal OG katanas feel quicker. Yes, I detuned tips and tails. These are for touring.
I am used to volkl mounts, so there’s that. It took me a long-ass time to figure out the OG squad 7 which also had a ton of tail: was about to sell them until I had my epiphany on them and fell in love.
Mount back? Give it more time? Cut off 4cm of tail? Watch more hoji clips to try to get the whole lateral move thing dialed? Did it take others awhile to figure this things out totally?
More time IMO.
I have a short bsl and am 5’7”, 167 lbs. Got last years 184 Ravens and this years 184 Hojis. Both are mounted on the rec dimple and both feel perfect there. I was previously mounted forward of the dimple on the Ravens (+1.2cm due to mounting +0.5cm and then going to a 7mm shorter bsl) and they felt wrong there.
On the dimple, they’re both slarvy and allow you to make Hoji turns at will in soft snow. Perfect. Awesome when you roll them over to engage the whole ski edge if it’s harder snow. Very happy with the rec dimple. That all being said I do like more forwardish mounts. I think Volklish -11cm mounts are pretty f’d (for me at least).
Skiing in Head Kore 1, 130 flex boots with a forward lean of 14˚ (sometimes with a calf shim in, sometimes not).
Just spent 5 days on the powder highway and Ravens/Hojis were all I skied.
Attachment 449609
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Does anyone like Ravens (or new versions of Hojis) in maritime snowpacks? All of the love for these skis seems to come from Colorado (Blister), Utah, and interior BC.
In the California Sierra Nevada, I found the Ravens to be too narrow for soft snow - or I’d rather be on something wider or with a floatier tip. Admittedly, I was on the 184 and should have been on 190, but it just seemed like the tips would get overwhelmed by the thicker snow we have here. And if it’s consistently deep and soft, I’d rather be on something fat (130 underfoot) or at least mid-fat (110-115) with a tip that floats better.
After a trip to Utah last month, I realized my skis would be about 10mm narrower if I lived there, compared to what I like here in California.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyski
I don't have much time on mine yet, but seeing toe shims and upright boots, is it possible you are actually too upright?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyski
I'm using unshimmed Xenics (which have a lot of delta) and MTN Labs (which have a little more lean than your boots, not sure how the ramp compares)--and while I'd like to try shimming the toes a bit, the skis definitely have the loose slarvy feel as they are. I'm mounted about where the hoji formula says I should be with 28.5 boots.
I'm not boot wizard, but I feel like forward lean/ramp can have counter-intuitive effects on how you ski. Some people report wanting more lean or ramp on forward mount points/neutral stance skis (hypothesizing here, but maybe it lets you get in "the stance" without actually loading up the front of the ski whereas in a more upright setup you start applying pressure to the front of the boot earlier). So if it is easy to try pulling the shims (or adjusting the boot lean), I'd try that before remounting.
I tried to pause a Hoji video where he was skiing Ravens and I think he was skiing Radical 2.0s (which have a healthy heel-toe delta) and I couldn't see any obvious toe shims...not sure how much lean his boots have--Hoji free is 17°, but I think the other Hoji boots are 11°.
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by meter-man
Toured in Rockies for 5 yrs and now 5 yrs on coast
Hojis crush, so versatile.
Also have Ravens for fitness laps
Renegades when the day warrants it.
Converted a neighbor to hojis..paying it forward. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...db05211c84.jpg
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
What binders are those between the pilsner dynafit hojis & blue ravents?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughwindlip
Pretty sure this is what my quiver will look like in a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughwindlip
For a season maybe ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kc_7777
Sent from the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
I’ll toss a spoiler on the boots for the fuck of it and see if more lean helps. Seems counterintuitive (I’ve been working on the whole “ski with flat even pressure on bottom of foot” thing) but worth a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by singlesline
Yes. They are my every day PNW touring ski, and I ski them in the resort when I am skiing with the kids. No complaints on the width, but I have other skis for the really deep days. The skis are beefy enough with enough rocker that the heavier snow doesn't pose a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by meter-man
Fair point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ticketchecker
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
1st gen teleQuote:
Originally Posted by rfconroy
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
I put the spoiler on my hawx 130 xtd, prefer them over the hoji 130 for what it's worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyski
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
More the merrier!Quote:
Originally Posted by kc_7777
Always hunting for the heavier gen hojis, excellent resort ski. Tour well too.
The older Ren's in 186 felt too short, but I never skied the big bois
The new era, lighter 191s are pretty epic.
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
super random.. but yeah, they are great for this. centre mount helps with all the luge track ski runs I get dragged through. fun for goofing around on side hits. but still fun when you get a moment to open them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ey_allen
mostly I just like that they're lighter and easier to carry when I'm also carrying random kid things & skis.
but otherwise, yes. they're great for coastal snow. particularly off resort conditions. have Raven+Ren for mostly backcountry. Devastators for heavy burly version of the same feelings in resort.
This is exactly why they are my go-to kids ski. They are fun if I can sneak off on my own, and easy to whip around in trees and luges that little kids seem to gravitate towards. The weight plus the fact that my touring boots are much easier to walk in while carrying all the kids gear is added goodness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judo Chop!
They also ski switch easily, which I find myself doing a lot with the kids just to check if they are still behind me or have them following me.
Skinned up the resort on my ravens last night in a nice little dumping of post-close snow.
Had so much fun I picked them again for riding chairs on the rest of that snow this morning. I'm really warming up to them.
I don't think a ski like this could be a daily driver for me--inbounds I know I'm going to spend enough time on groomers getting from A to B that I'd just prefer some camber and a tighter radius.
But in mixed conditions like these (I'm guessing 3-4" fell after close last night on top of 3" that fell yesterday morning onto a variable base) they offer a sort of laid back delightful kind of skiing. Require pretty low effort to pivot in the trees, don't get too upset if they get knocked around by firmer snow underneath the surface, don't beg to be driven hard. For a general purpose touring ski, that's pretty much on target in my opinion.
I should have gone with 190s instead of 184s though--There may be a pair of 190cm 4locks in my future.
I’ve grabbed my 190 Ravens 4 of the last 6 ski days. New snow over soft each day. Knee deep in untracked areas. Once I sorted out the ramp with Vipecs I’m really digging them. Sure they get pushed around in heavy, set up and bumpy crud but I’m usually looking for soft snow on the periphery of the resort. The light weight is very nice. Makes me want a Hoji. Bought a same vintage 196 Renegade because I like the shape so much. I’ve got the blue/white Raven, green/white Renegade. Now I want the 195 red/white Hoji.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Attachment 453381
Scooped up a pair in the stash sale and I’m pretty excited after my three laps on these in little bit of mixed conditions. Mounted with voyagers on the line, boot maestrale xt.
Weight: 1810/1822 @184cm
The up was fine, skis felt fine on the up. We’re a little loose on the firmer sections of the skinner but I could have easily just put crampons on to mitigate those issues. The 4lock is a pretty trick system, would be very keen to modify my other touring skis to accept this if they offered the skins without a ski.
The down (the best part) It took about 3-4 turns to kind of get the sensation down. I thoroughly read this thread before I ordered and I already have a touring quiver of progressively mounted skis, so I think that aided in how easily I took to the raven’s.
They felt as expected on sastrugi, great on soft and some of the mix conditions i experienced. They really do feel quite loose until you apply some angulation then I feel like the really bite down(I didn’t detune yet, only ran a true bar across the bases after mounting). In the trees they felt quick and easy to ski I think that’s due to weight and shape.
Overall they are a fun and pretty intuitive ski if you favor progressive mounts. Really look forward to getting these on some corn in the coming weeks.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Took me maybe 7 days to really “get it” having been on mostly trad or Volkl mounts for the past 20 years. But I do now. The “hip shift” thing is real and works. Was super patient because I love the 4lock stuff - otherwise would have gone running to a blaze 106. Still have moments where the tail gets a little hung up (184s and I’m 5’8” and skinny) but recentering to the balance point quickly fixes that. Was blown away at how well they skied some wind blasted volcano ice and dogshit coming off the top of Bachelor a couple weeks ago. They’re definitely a little tougher to skin in firm conditions vs skis w/more surface area on the snow, but it’s not that bad so far - because they’re only 104 underfoot you can roll your ankles more easily to get more carpet on the snow when traversing. A 181 would be perfect for me, but whatever.
Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
Can you tell me more about the "hip shift"? I've struggled to figure out fore/aft balance on ravens (and friends report similar on hojis), and would rather learn something new than cycle through more gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyski
Nope - but I'd bet it has more to do with traditional v progressive mounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffinmyers
1. Ski them a lot. I’m finding it hard to readjust to the Raven after spending a few days on other, more traditional skis. They’re VERY different IME.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffinmyers
2. It’s WELL worth spending a soft-ish day at the lifts to get the repetition in. Until I did that, I was pretty sure I’d made a huge mistake not just buying Blaze 106s given my Volkl habits.
3. Focus on the “flat of your foot” almost pressuring straight down rather than on the shin of the boot - I think “right behind ball of foot.” Then, swing your hips to initiate the pivot, as opposed to initiating turns by pressuring the front of your boots/spot just in front of the binding like you do with a trad ski. Any time I get even a little too forward in any kind of powder the front of the ski “bogs down.” The tip doesn’t fold or anything, but it feels like i have skins on or something. Sorry- so much of this is how things “feel” so the language won’t be perfect. Practicing this shit either going really slow on a groomer or just going for it in pow has been what’s worked for me.
4. Trial and error: So many people talk about skiing “upright” on more center mounted skis - for some reason that doesn’t work for me at all on the Ravens. Athletic, but slightly back it where’s it’s been at for me on these, but everyone is different. The lift days are invaluable for this kind of thing.
5. Mess w/your forward lean on your boots/bindings. I actually needed to be a bit more forward than I’d thought. I was hating them, assumed i was too far forward, put a shim in there and learned i was wrong.
unlike many others, it has NOT been love at first turn for me, but then i have days - in mixed snow, too - where they’re amazing. I’d actually love to hear what tips/tricks others have to make these work consistently. I’ve had plenty of flat or mostly reverse skis before. It’s the more forward mount that’s different on these.
Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
I sense this consensus that every skier MUST like this ski - else they simply haven't "figured it out" yet. I would challenge that. As a skier preferring of more symmetrical skis, but also flat-cambered skis, I never found my groove with the Raven (2021) despite getting very used to it over a bunch of days and purposeful adaptation. I respect where it excels, and why many folks enjoy it, but I didn't appreciate its shortcomings. Certainly, some people (including myself) can find a better compromise of benefits with alternative ski designs.
Point is - it may be a sweet design that works for many - but its far from a universal holy grail. IMHO ;)
Actually, the real point is to echo my personal learning that if it doesn't feel right - it doesn't have to mean you're wrong! Try-try again. Skis vary so widely in how they feel and perform. Fascinating and expensive and frustrating stuff :)
The Raven has a small sweet spot. When you’re on it and skiing through the whole foot on edge they’re amazing in soft and/or funky snow. Speed is key to get that slippery loose feel, don’t make lateral movement until you get up to speed. They’re not noodlers in deeper funky snow. You can ski slower in powder and 2D crust/corn though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffenator
I think the 4FRNT Raven has a decent sized sweet spot…. but agree it may not be the ski for everyone. I’ve been skiing Hoji’s shapes (owned 3 Rens, 2 Hojis and 1 pair of Ravens) since 2013, and find them easy/intuitive to ski. But put me on an Volkl M102, mounted at -11cm, and I’d prolly find those tougher to ski. Or at least they would not feel right.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
So ya its definitely a feel thing. When I’ve just skied my Hojis and Ravens exclusively for a couple of weeks in a row, and then go back to a cambered ski, I find that I need a few runs to “re-adjust” my skiing to cambered skis.
So I assume the "reverse" is true....
What I love most about the Raven is that it slarves so well. The shape makes it effortless to ski fast in steep, tight terrain. The reverse camber allows you to drive the Raven from right under your boot, instead of using tip pressure like cambered skis. The Raven is a pretty straight ski (with a 29m sidecut radius) so its not the best ski for carving sharp, tight turns. Which is the point. Slarve em. I love when you throw them into a controlled drift, and then stay perpendicular to the fall line for awhile. See in this 1st pic…I’m on a steepish pitch in chalky snow, and am “pushing” through my feet (eg I’m pushing equally through my entire foot, including my heels too). You can see my left heel is a bit lazy....kind of drifting...mmmm.
Attachment 454941
In this next not as clear pic you can also see that I'm skiing centered, drifting in dust on crust, pressuring the whole ski, down through my boots. People complained conditions sucked this day....not on reverse cambered skis.
Attachment 454942
Another benefit…cambered skis tire my legs out quicker. Whereas reverse camber skis save your legs. I can definitely ski faster and longer on Ravens/Hojis vs cambered skis. It’s actually kind of cheating when you do a big day inbounds, and you are on Hojis, and the rest of the crew is on cambered skis. Way easier to slarve than carve all day.
PS I differ from some people in that I also ski my rockered Ravens inbounds a lot, even on ice, cause when tipped on edge, that full length of the ski engages the snow and gives a pretty stable edge hold. So you just have to put some time in….and watch some Hoji vids.
If the ravens ski anything like the renegades:
Ski much faster than you think you should... the ski will come alive and then you can replicate the front at slower speeds. You must commit and trust the ski, since it won't give early feedback like a cambered ski. The renegades kill chop at Mach speed by planing on over the inconsistencies of chop and bumps. Commitment is key.
Slarve. Think smearing sideways. Try drifting completely sideways to get tubed. Try evening pressure between both skis and playing with stance width. The reverse camber 4frnt skis will carve, even on hardback , but need higher edge angles to hookup.
I think both points have already been made above.
It takes me most of a day of 3D snow to get my legs underneath me and feel invincible after skiing ice for weeks to months in between. I really need to move back westward. It took until run number five om a pow day at the bird on my one Utah trip this year until it all clicked.
This is all my opinion though and could be entirely wrong for other people.
Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinipenem
They sure do, the Raven / Ren Combo is fucking rad
Another data point here, from a Northern Norway point of view, as in only touring
Got these in 190 length in March and haven't toured with my other skis at all since, so one could say I'm quite sold.
I had no previous experience with reverse camber skis, but it only took a few turns in ankle deep to figure these out. I've had the Vision 118's as my deep snow touring pair and while they're not reverse camber, the rocker is long and I would not call them directional at all. Maybe I was familiar with the centered stance both skis like. I did take a calf wedge out of my boots to get a slightly more upright stance. These respond to really small inputs as well, even just pronating the ankle a bit to initiate.
March was the deepest month I've experienced ever. Mostly blower pow from ankle to even the elusive nipple deep, but still didn't reach for the Visions. Ravens ski deep powder strikingly well. Feels like either the whole ski floats or sinks, so it's very predictable, no tip hooking at all. And what felt the weirdest, they're still maneuverable inside the snow, not just on top of it.
April was more spring-like and variable conditions. Cruddy refrozen crust, chalky and wind-effected were all remarkably nice with the ski. Only time I was struggling was in some 5cm breakable windboard with soft snow beneath and felt it was challenging to release the tails. Not sure I'd be able to ski that snow smoothly with any other ski I've been on, though.
They're light enough for some long (10km) approaches and big vert days (1700m+) but heavy enough for the variable stuff. Mounted for 313mm bsl -1,5cm with Salomon MTN and it feels spot on.
The question is, if these are allready the best 105mm pow skis I've skied, what would the Hoji or Renegades feel like on those truly deep days and maybe for tightish tree skiing? Visions are good tree wiggling machines, but sometime feel slightly lacking on bigger faces) Is there a bigger difference in float and pivotability between Raven and Hoji or between Hoji and Renegade?
I’ve owned all three.
Currently own the 184 Raven and 184 Hoji. Previously owned the Raven and 184 Renegade.
The Hoji is my favourite ski when it is soft inbounds. I used it a ton last season. Plenty of float, but more maneuverable and quicker than Renegades. At the 112mm width you can still ski in the snow on the Hoji, vs the 122mm width Ren which puts you more on the snow.
So I guess bigger diff between Hoji and Ren in float (than Raven and Hoji).
Hoji is just a more versatile ski than the Ren.
That being said I’ll prolly buy Rens again.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I own every ski that Hoji has designed, except for the newer renegades as I’m a HALS construction renegade hoarder (best ski ever made). The raven and renegade ski very similarly. They’re both lightsabers slicing through fresh snow. The renegade however is made to turn it up to 11. There’s no top end speed limit but you definitely need to be skiing them FAST for them to come alive, they’re pretty horrible meadow skippers. The hoji has a more bouncy feel than the other 2, and the raven can be skied in pretty much any condition and handles speed well but isn’t really capable of going full on Mach looney.
Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
I had to ski to different hojis on a trip recently. Fuck yah, barely noticed.
Renagdes slay
Hojis play
Ravens do it any way
That's what I think about them. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...cf778fb8f6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...cec551ff26.jpg
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughwindlip
I’m 99% certain I’ll have Rens in the quiver again next year. Have often thought about buying second Hojis.
Cause I always end up having my best ski days on Hoji’s shapes. They just work.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I like meadow skipping on Rens. Almost no sidecut and full reverse camber makes mellow terrain and low tide conditions in the local foothills fast and fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
Love the re-invigoration of this thread. Absolutely love my current-gen 184 Ravens. I used to ski a much narrower and lighter ski, and bought these as a powder ski. Turns out they are my new favorite ski for everything, although now I want a “real” powder ski. What’s everyone’s thought on 184 vs 190 for the Renegade? I am pretty darn split on which one I want.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Haven't skied a 184 Ren but put ~45 days this season touring on a pair of 191 Rens (wolf topsheet). No regrets on the length. They feel plenty nimble for the terrain I'm skiing (moderately open to very open ~1-2K shots). Yo-yoing tighter trees and shorter pitches I might prefer the 184. 6'1 160lb race background. More finesse than power. I also ski the 190 Raven and think I would prefer the 184 FWIW.Quote:
Originally Posted by PinyonJuniper5
'Quote:
Originally Posted by PinyonJuniper5
Being on the 186 renegades, they're pretty nimble like most of the skis in this family, so if you have the long legs for throwing kick turns on the 190cm I'd go longer over shorter. For reference, I'm about 5'7'', and havent had issues with throwing kick turns on the 186, as if you're using the renegade, you've got softer snow, and go do a stabbing kickturn 95% of the time.
Not a ton to do these days except stare at the quiver and contemplate changes. I think I want to add in a Hoji ne t season for inbounds powder and touring (most likely Cast). I'm 6' 160, strong skier. Debating size. I'm thinking 191, but it would be the longest ski I've ever been on. It would be used in everything from chutes to tight trees when the snow is deep.
The only reason I would go shorter is if you're going to tour. While it wouldnt be my first choice for a resort pow ski, I would say go longer, as both the renegade and hoji ski much shorter than they are with the full rocker design.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowMachine
Personally, if you're looking for a dedicated pow ski, I'd go with something heavier, or a renegade