OBAMA FUCKING WON

Arty, you are way off base here. Obama has been runnig a campaign based on the fact that he has better judgment, yet he himself has been associated with salacious individuals, not only that, but he lied about his association with Rezko in a debate.

That's a pretty fair point to raise, no?

And posting something from Kos isn't credible, the author is a partisan who is using other bloggers as footnotes. It's the same as someone linking to the national review to to debunk Bush myths.

Edwards is out. Two horse race.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Edwards is out. Two horse race.

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i would say thats bad for the ruthless cow from new york but maybe not.

Arty, I often like what I read at dailykos - but this time they are really reaching. My understanding is:

-Obama could not have closed on his house if the lot and house were not sold at the same time. That was a stipulation of by the seller to the real estate agent (confirmed by the agent in an interview with the agent regarding this). Interesting that it was a Rezko family member who closed on the same day as Obama - for roughly 600K.

-The increase in value to Obama's property was disproportionate because the strip intrinsically enhanced the value of his property and at the same time made the other lot somewhere between more difficult to almost undevelopable (as reported by the Chicago papers) due to the smaller size of the lot.

-Obama has been having his lawn guy maintain the "extra" lot. And never billed Rezko.

The articles I've seen regarding this that were published out of Chicago the last couple years sure make it seem Obama has been evasive about the topic for years. I'm amazed he's been given such a pass. Especially for a guy pitching change and ethics.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

And posting something from Kos isn't credible

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Really? There is more knowledge of the Democratic Party at dailyKos than anywhere else. Sure, there is plenty of hackery and bullshit, but that's just like any source, mainstream media or not.

I'm not even going to wade into the Rezko argument, it's clear spindrift has made up his mind, but let's be realistic: dailykos has plenty of legit information.

Here is why I MUST be for Obama:

1) He has already created a huge groundswell of Democratic support, including uncountable numbers of first time primary voters and caucus goers who will be with the party for a long, long time.

2) I believe he will help downticket Democrats, whereas I believe Hillary would hurt them in many places.

3) The Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton thing CANNOT be good for America - and from this position I will not be persuaded. Dynasties are bullshit. How come Bill has lots of bad things to say about Obama but very few bad things to say about Bush, and in fact is good buddies with Bush Sr?

I could go on, these are my big three this morning.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

Really? There is more knowledge of the Democratic Party at dailyKos than anywhere else. Sure, there is plenty of hackery and bullshit, but that's just like any source, mainstream media or not.

I'm not even going to wade into the Rezko argument, it's clear spindrift has made up his mind, but let's be realistic: dailykos has plenty of legit information.

Here is why I MUST be for Obama:

1) He has already created a huge groundswell of Democratic support, including uncountable numbers of first time primary voters and caucus goers who will be with the party for a long, long time.

2) I believe he will help downticket Democrats, whereas I believe Hillary would hurt them in many places.

3) The Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton thing CANNOT be good for America - and from this position I will not be persuaded. Dynasties are bullshit. How come Bill has lots of bad things to say about Obama but very few bad things to say about Bush, and in fact is good buddies with Bush Sr?

I could go on, these are my big three this morning.

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Here in dumbshit Utah Ive heard many rightwingers say that the only way they woould ever considera voe for McCain is if is running against Billary, that if for no other reason is a reason is to vote for Obama.


I love how everyone loves to talk about Hillary's specific goals that she has layed out but they seem to foget that without a filibuster proof Senate which she will certanl not help happen in November nearly all of her goals will die before they hit her desk.

I wish someone would play the video of both Clintons proclaiming Obama the "future of the Democratic party" back at the convention in '04.:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by AKA

I wish someone would play the video of both Clintons proclaiming Obama the "future of the Democratic party" back at the convention in '04.:biggrin:

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Well everybody has their own definition of how long future means. :D

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Edwards is out. Two horse race.

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Fuck it. This is the last straw.

I'm moving to New Zealand. Meat pies and merlot till the end of time ;)

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Originally Posted by AKA

Here in dumbshit Utah Ive heard many rightwingers say that the only way they woould ever considera voe for McCain is if is running against Billary, that if for no other reason is a reason is to vote for Obama.


I love how everyone loves to talk about Hillary's specific goals that she has layed out but they seem to foget that without a filibuster proof Senate which she will certanl not help happen in November nearly all of her goals will die before they hit her desk.

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That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.

Did everyone of Bush's proposals die before they reached his desk?

I said it before and I'll say it again. You gotta be a fuckin dope to vote for a Chicago politician. Their corrupt to the core. Rezko is a small timer. Obama owes a lot of favors in Illinois. The boys here always collect. Nothing has changed in my family's lifetime as a Chicagoan and Im 4th generation.

Suckers...

"He's done a lot for Illinois" < Like what????

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.

Did everyone of Bush's proposals die before they reached his desk?

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Thats funny cause the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard was last nights clam of a stunning landslide victory in a non-race.

Obama would, in my opinion, help usher in a greater Democratic majority with his wave of support, making any legislation he proposes that much more likely to become law.

-Nobody campaigned in Florida.
-Well over a million people showed up at the Democratic polls to voice an opinion that they knew will be marginalized in the press due to some BS maneuvering by the DNC... yet they showed up anyway.
-HRC won. It wasn't even close...

You really think this means nothing? We'll see on Tuesday.

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Originally Posted by AKA

Thats funny cause the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard was last nights clam of a stunning landslide victory in a non-race.

Obama would, in my opinion, help usher in a greater Democratic majority with his wave of support, making any legislation he proposes that much more likely to become law.

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Okay, what hard evidence do you offer that Republicans would filibuster every bill?

Or are you just entertaining everyone with your enlightened political insights?

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Originally Posted by SteepnDeep

I said it before and I'll say it again. You gotta be a fuckin dope to vote for a Chicago politician. Their corrupt to the core. Rezko is a small timer. Obama owes a lot of favors in Illinois. The boys here always collect. Nothing has changed in my family's lifetime as a Chicagoan and Im 4th generation.

Suckers...

"He's done a lot for Illinois" < Like what????

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Quiet asshole!

Obama is the candidate of change. Nobody wants to hear that he really represents politics as usual just like the bedeviled Hillary. He gives great speeches and has an edgy sense of humor and inspires our sense of greatness and hope. Thats reason enough to ignore the cookie jar that he fingers and refuses to cap. The same jar that he claims to rise above, just like every other candidate ever to feed out of it. Meanwhile somehow, someway corporate American has used their giving jar to rob Americans of any semblance of effective legislation.

Lets just pretend that good speeches and inspiration are all that matters. There will always be meat pies and merlot.

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Originally Posted by Spats

It's sad but funny to see everyone suddenly discover that Obama, just like all the other "mainstream" candidates, is 100% financed by Wall Street, and has the same ugly influence-peddling skeletons in his closet.

NEWS FLASH: that's why he's a "mainstream" candidate...because he's a pawn of the rich. That is the qualification to become a mainstream candidate.

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are the only two candidates in the race that stand for meaningful change and stick by their principles. Since they cannot be bought, they are marginalized by epithets such as "second-tier", "dark horse", and "unelectable".

The tragedy here is that you keep falling for this trick. Over and over and over. And that's why the rich will continue to get richer and richer, and you will continue to get poorer and poorer.

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+1

But with what we are left with, I'll still ALWAYS choose a Dem. (hopefully Obama). If anything, for the symbolic quality/example to the rest of the world, that the US populace is not ignorant enough to put yet another repub into office after the shitshow of the last 7 yrs.

Hopefully some independent candidate doesn't pull Dem votes and end up handing it to the repubs again.

And we NEED a strong Dem House AND Senate.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Okay, what hard evidence do you offer that Republicans would filibuster every bill?

Or are you just entertaining everyone with your enlightened political insights?

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Overstatement is a skill of mine, I simply meant that the hate and vitriol
inspired by that woman would make getting things done much more difficult.

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Originally Posted by AKA

Overstatement is a skill of mine, I simply meant that the hate and vitriol
inspired by that woman would make getting things done much more difficult.

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I'm not sure if it will make getting things done more difficult, some of the most effective people I've ever met happened to be people I hated.

As for the difficulty of getting elected, you may have a valid point. I happen to disagree with it, but still, it is something that I think about when considering the general.

Also, I just heard on NPR that tomorrow night's Dem Debate is expected to pull more viewers than American Idol.

It's awesome that so many people are involved in the process.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Also, I just heard on NPR that tomorrow night's Dem Debate is expected to pull more viewers than American Idol.

It's awesome that so many people are involved in the process.

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If that happens, it will be (sadly) incredible. And if it happens, they won't be tuning in to see Hillary Clinton. They'll be tuning in to see this Obama guy that everyone is talking about.

But as a political operative, you don't care why they're watching. You just care about all those eyeballs on your candidate! ;)

I like deep dish Chicago pizza, as it is more filling, but new York/Neopolitan has better texture and subtlety. That being said, both HRC and Obama are actually from Chicago, so there you go.

Bitches.

http://community.iexplore.com/photos...f0_prefRes.jpg

http://www.seriouseats.com/required_...326johnnys.jpg
Then, of course, there are also other regional varieties, such as Sicilian:

http://www.brandlispizza.com/yahoo_s...164532_std.jpg

Which is filling, cheap, and feeds a lot, but is lacking in flavor,

and Luna Pizza, which is very filling, but you have to live in the rustbelt in order to know..( I can't find a photo)

And there is white pizza, served as an appetizer in mafia-friendly restaurants.
http://www.brandlispizza.com/yahoo_s...164418_std.jpg

That all being said, has anyone heard of Brandli's, in north Conway, NH?

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Originally Posted by Tourette Dude

+1

But with what we are left with, I'll still ALWAYS choose a Dem. (hopefully Obama). If anything, for the symbolic quality/example to the rest of the world, that the US populace is not ignorant enough to put yet another repub into office after the shitshow of the last 7 yrs.

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Agreed. I'm a Ron Paulican, not a Republican, and I would even (holding nose, touching lever with tissue) vote for Clinton before I'd vote for any of the Republican neo-cons or bible-thumpers.

This is basically because of retiring Supreme Court justices and the fact that America will literally not survive any more of a swing to the right. The Democratic social programs will actually hurt the poor and middle class, because they will be paid for with more government debt = inflation = destruction of your salary, savings, and fixed income payments.

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Originally Posted by Spats

Agreed. I'm a Ron Paulican, not a Republican, and I would even (holding nose, touching lever with tissue) vote for Clinton before I'd vote for any of the Republican neo-cons or bible-thumpers.

This is basically because of retiring Supreme Court justices and the fact that America will literally not survive any more of a swing to the right. The Democratic social programs will actually hurt the poor and middle class, because they will be paid for with more government debt = inflation = destruction of your salary, savings, and fixed income payments.

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Spats, I really admire your political convictions, way to put everything on the line for a candidate.

Just to rebut your point, The only time the budget has been balanced for the last 30 years has been under a democrat.

Pheenster-

In all honesty, I'm really just stoked on the fact that there are so many new people getting involved. I don't care who they are tuning in to watch. The more people who are involved, the easier it is to hold our politicians accountable.

I'll ask it again:

If Obama is motivating all these people to vote why did Hillary crush him in Florida? Neither one campaigned there, and there was no "need" to vote, so why were the Hillary supporters so willing to waste their time on Tuesday?

Obama dismissing it as a "Beauty Contest" is hysterical. I bet his looks and charm have gotten him a significant percentage of his votes so far.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

I'll ask it again:

If Obama is motivating all these people to vote why did Hillary crush him in Florida? Neither one campaigned there, and there was no "need" to vote, so why were the Hillary supporters so willing to waste their time on Tuesday?

Obama dismissing it as a "Beauty Contest" is hysterical. I bet his looks and charm have gotten him a significant percentage of his votes so far.

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They went to the polls to lower their property taxes and from what I understand from NPR Obama actually won if you count only votes cast on tuesday and forget the the ones cast a month ago, I think that says a lot.