2008-2009 Colorado Snowpack Observations

Andrei and I stood at the top of Dragonstail at 11AM, 6" on the Easterly/southerly aspects and more at the ridge and North/West aspects with East winds loading last night in unusual patterns. Point releases visible lower down on Easterly faces leading to lenghty sluffs of hundreds of yards. Below us Dragon's Tail had sluffed some naturally. Tension hung in the air as we felt uncomfortable with this rowdy line in new snow with icy crust underneath from two day's before's hot temps. I found my way to the lip of the cornice carefully keeping my skis still on rock. Using my Whippet I cut and slashed at the cornice line hoping to cut off something to test the snow in the 50+deg couloir below. A small section the size of a pizza box, and nothing more, cuts free and then slides down the lip and onto the upper section of the couloir. It accelerates on the icy crust and entrains more and more snow as it runs down and around the multiple rock walled corners that are Dragon's Tail's flanks until its a frankly sizable snow slide occasionally accelerating or throwing snow over rocks and rollovers. After a pulsing ride all the way down to the lake, 1500' + later, it stops.

We turn away and look to the North East face of Flat Top several hundred feet higher to the West. Powder, in fact more of it on these North faces. An hour later we ski down the upper bowl in boot to knee deep fluff to the top of the North East couloirs where a squall dropped 1" of new snow and obliterated visibility for 10 minutes. We then dropped in to the steeper couloir to complete 1800' of knee deep fluff that produced face shot after face shot and only minor sluffing on a more cohesive north face. The best "Bailout" run ever. The trail out is a cakewalk with skier and snowshoe packed snow all the way to the car 900' lower.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smitchell333

Andrei and I stood at the top of Dragonstail at 11AM, 6" on the Easterly/southerly aspects and more at the ridge and North/West aspects with East winds loading last night in unusual patterns. Point releases visible lower down on Easterly faces leading to lenghty sluffs of hundreds of yards. Below us Dragon's Tail had sluffed some naturally. Tension hung in the air as we felt uncomfortable with this rowdy line in new snow with icy crust underneath from two day's before's hot temps. I found my way to the lip of the cornice carefully keeping my skis still on rock. Using my Whippet I cut and slashed at the cornice line hoping to cut off something to test the snow in the 50+deg couloir below. A small section the size of a pizza box, and nothing more, cuts free and then slides down the lip and onto the upper section of the couloir. It accelerates on the icy crust and entrains more and more snow as it runs down and around the multiple rock walled corners that are Dragon's Tail's flanks until its a frankly sizable snow slide occasionally accelerating or throwing snow over rocks and rollovers. After a pulsing ride all the way down to the lake, 1500' + later, it stops.

We turn away and look to the North East face of Flat Top several hundred feet higher to the West. Powder, in fact more of it on these North faces. An hour later we ski down the upper bowl in boot to knee deep fluff to the top of the North East couloirs where a squall dropped 1" of new snow and obliterated visibility for 10 minutes. We then dropped in to the steeper couloir to complete 1800' of knee deep fluff that produced face shot after face shot and only minor sluffing on a more cohesive north face. The best "Bailout" run ever. The trail out is a cakewalk with skier and snowshoe packed snow all the way to the car 900' lower.

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Thanks for the post. I love that area. Too bad it's two hours further from me than it used to be. But, I'm not complaining. I also found nice fluffy, snow, about 28 degrees-ish, below treeline, and north facing today. New snow looked to be holding well to the old and seems to be starting to set up nicely. It was a blast to ski and didn't show any obvious signs of stability. Pole probes seemed to show a strengthening snow pack, and I didn't feel any obvious crusts. Not quite spring snowpack, but getting there.

I love to hear the bailout reports, you can learn a lot from those. Great discussions here. When we skied Grays a few weeks ago the snowpack was about 4" of wind slab, on top of a pretty cohesive 3'-4' pack, with an inch or two of depth hoar on the bottom. Variable continues to be the word to use, I'm getting out tommorow for a tour on some south facing slopes around Loveland Pass area. I'm interested to see how the snowpack is doing now.

Our south facing tour on saturday showed very small windslab, less than 2". No shearing or failing at all of the column in our pit. Once removed, the column was nothing but facets about a foot deep. It was early in the morning and the pack was still locked up pretty solid.

That sounds very similar to the snow we encountered on Saturday. We did a tour towards Hagar up Dry Gulch. Above 11,500 there was this funky wind slab/ heavy powder layer that was pretty tricky to ski and the snow just got worse the higher we went so we bailed. Below that layer there was decent consolidation for the next meter or so, but depth hoar supporting the whole slope. Not exactly inspiring.

Mt Bethel Sunday 4/20

In the trees the snowpack has not yet consolidated and especially low down it was bottomless slop by early afternoon. At middle elevations in the sun baked south aspects the snowpack was very consolidated and skiing like perfect corn. Up high above 12K it there was a bit of a funky crust layer that was just staring to barely soften up early afternoon. Great corn skiing

Berthoud 4/26

2 or 3 inches in the parking lot and about 5 at the top of the West Side. Did a couple runs between 11 and 2 on East and Northeast aspects. It was 15 degrees when we arrived and still below freezing in the parking lot when we left. The new snow seemed to bond fairly well with only minor sluffing on steeper slopes, no pits were dug. Watched a couple snowboarders check out the East Face of Russel but decided against it, maybe due to new wind deposits.

Skied NW face of Drift on Saturday and NE face of Sniktau today. Snowpack is seeming to be getting pretty solid except for 2-3in. wind slab breaking up on both slopes at the surface. Nothing below that seemed to be moving at all. Melt-freeze hadn't really set in, as we found some nice wind loaded powder on sniktau today, but that's sure to change as it was getting warm and sunny today, and it's supposed to be 50's at 10,000 feet the next few days.

I witnessed multiple natural wetslides today at 11am-12pm on S->E facing aspects near Aspen at 12-13.5K. Snow was all corn and borderline dangerous slush by 10am on these aspects. It barely froze at 12,000ft last night too according to my thermometer. Looks like alpine starts only for me for the rest of the season, who needs sleep anyway. Maybe this system passing through will bring us some goodness... Be careful out there

not that people don't already know this, but this system dumped quite a bit of snow and it was ridiculous windy at VP and the tunnel on my way home from Denver this morning. Gonna be tempting to get after some pow after the break we've had, but be careful of this new snow and the wind slabs that have no doubt formed.

anybody out in the bc today (Friday)? curious how the new snow is bonding and what the windslab is like. good reminder, montanaskier - I'm in that boat trying to make a good decision for tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by spthomson

anybody out in the bc today (Friday)? curious how the new snow is bonding and what the windslab is like. good reminder, montanaskier - I'm in that boat trying to make a good decision for tomorrow.

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Only did Loveland lifts and Loveland Valley skin as the pass was closed. Generally just 5-10" but very icy underneath with high winds and plenty of transport. Where drifting it was getting deep @ 3-4'. I'd be especially careful on the easterly ridges where the right combo of steep, windloaded, and icy crust underneath exists - especially as it warms up.

^^^
thanks, appreciated. what I would expect, but good to get the firsthand obs.

Was up at James Peak today. As we were hiking up the glacier, we had clear view of Super Star (the most prominent couloir to the north of the peak) and had our eyes set on it, but the rather larger cornice forced us to examine other options. After walking along the ridge north and south of the summit, there were 3 available choices. One was to the north and incredibly short, so we bagged that idea. The other two were eventually turned down.

Around 11 AM, I stepped into Shooting Star (a popular ENE-facing shot with a rather wide entrance) and my foot sunk 3 feet after pushing through a very thin wind crust. We bailed. Next, we hiked down another hundred feet to Starlight. As I was downclimbing in to check conditions, a bunch of rocks tumbled beside me. Clearly not a snowpack-related observation, but felt like a bad omen, so we unconventional bailed on that idea and stuck to skiing the glacier which was pretty fun at times. The views at the top were WELL worth the trip and look forward to going back there again soon.


In related news, Bancroft Bowl looked VERY good.


http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7...jamespkov3.jpg

Loveland Pass area:
Dave's Wave
Point 12,900 X 2

Great corn skiing on these west faces well into the afternoon. The under layers are very firm other than where the snowpack is very thin, rocky, or rotted by willows/trees. And the upper layers are super buttery.

I'd say low danger, although another guy I talked to had ventured onto a easterly facing aspect with rocks and found rotten stuff, perhaps from the last storm or perhaps just rotten around the rocks.

Hopefully the snowpack will keep freezing up nicely at night and keep it firm for the next few weeks.

Just for something to look at for the next 4 months while we wait for it to start looking like this again.
I call it "One more time for the world" (sometimes part of an on going series)
http://tetongravity.com/forums/attac...1&d=1210706574

so this massive warm weather has been nuts this week. While driving to Winter Park today I saw small crown right before the tunnel on the right hand side of the road. Right past the top of Berthoud, again on the right hand side was a sizeable crown. I would say 5-10ft deep and 30 feet across or so. These warm temps are allowing things to step down it looks like.

Anyone tell me if things were freezing up/remaining solid today.

how much snow is left on vail pass?

enough for a meadow skippy corn harvest with the lady on saturday?

Too low, go to Loveland pass, Indy pass, Trailridge or somewhere up high.

what he said^^^^. Would be possible to hit Uneva up high or the backside, but Indy opens tomorrow and should be much better.

yea the plan was to skin up the burn, gain the ridge, and assess what we want to ski (with uneva and those other peaks being the prime objectives)

indy's & trail ridge are both kinda far for what we have planned and it may not happen anyway

thanks for the info though

kinda patchy coverage, but I suspect you could make it. Take pics

The End.

Oh man if we get anywhere near the snow we got last year its gonna be awesome! I remember at least 10 chest deep days and about 40 knee deep days and every other time I went out it was boot deep ! Having those high speed quads all to myself and skiing uncut at 2:30 top to bottom every day sure doesnt get boring. Where else can you do what we do?

Ski powder every day, every day uncut,uncrowded. I hit Winter Park mostly because it snows the most there as far as close to Denver goes. The sidecountry was bomber snowpack all season. Mushroom patch to hwy 40 to the bus, oh man it was the deepest in years! End off the day with hells half/mines1-2 to seven mile and talk about long runs. and long days. Ski your ass off at Winter Park/Berthoud,best snow in the front range!

Should we start a new thread for this season?????

yes

we did last year

I just changed the title of this thread to keep it current for this year. Although telemike moved California and can't get his panties in a wad like he did last season, keep this thread for avy observations only. A thread exists in the Snow Conditions and Weather Forum.

I was up at Jones pass saturday. Our group dug pits on 2 different slopes. Slope 1 was NE facing with ~30 degree pitch. Slope 2 was about 75 yards N. of slope 1. It was more east facing than slope 1, but slightly steeper. Westerly winds the past week had windloaded the eastern aspects of Jones pass. Slope 2's pit revealed evidence of windloading and a weak layer about 20cm deep. However, after doing a compression test which failed at the 4th shoulder drop (+some muscle), we deemed the slope stable to ride on. Slope 1 however was different. After skinning up slope 2, and traversing over to slope 1, another pit was dug. This pit yielded different results. Not only was it windloaded, but a slab was also detected underneath. Compression test was a failure, as the block broke at 1 tap. We turned back and descended on slope 2. Appox. 30 min later, slednecks showed up and started doing their thing. we were in the process of skinning back up slope 2 to do another lap and could not warn the slednecks of what we found out about slope 1. Sledneck 1 (who had avy gear+ and abs pack) hauled ass up slope 1, to the summit. It fractured, but did not slide. A guy in our group had earlier traversed the ridge in an attempt to warn the slednecks about the danger. But they did not understand the signals he was giving them about not coming up. Sledneck 1's friend (who didn't know what his friend had just done) hauled ass up slope 1, after it had already fractured. Again, it did not slide. If the slope had been steeper however, it might have been a different story. They also did not take the time to examine the snowpack, as we never saw them turn off their sleds and check it out.

Loveland Pass area

Thin, blasted by the winds so there are drifted areas of 1-3' and many areas with nothing at all.

Found good snow on wind sheltered SE facing terrain where deep the basal layers were firmer, possibly due to warm temps and sun. Ski cuts provided no whoompfing, cracking or movement.

Did see depth hoar development especially among willows.

get anything you want
http://www.in-brands.com/showsort.asp?sort_id=558

Slide yesterday on an east aspect just south of Loveland Pass. I assume this area has a name, I just don't know it. Picture was taken today. Alpine Rescue is visible on the debris doing some practicing.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8...ovelandry2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coloskier

Slide yesterday on an east aspect just south of Loveland Pass. I assume this area has a name, I just don't know it. Picture was taken today. Alpine Rescue is visible on the debris doing some practicing.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8...ovelandry2.jpg

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Cross posted from teletips... I was with Alpine up there today...

I did a quick fx line inspection/profile on this slide today. This was on the skier's left crown face in the lower break. See if you can make out my profile (hope it makes sense)...

-- Surface --
20cm slab 4F
--
2cm Fist
--
20cm slab 1F
--
3cm facets
-- *Avalanche broke at this interface* --
2cm crust P (bed surface)
--
5cm facets
-- Ground --

Compression test = CT0 Q1 Shot out while cutting the back
ECT 4

There are definite tender pockets in our limited coverage right now. Watch out for booby traps! Otherwise, pray for snow...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coloskier

Slide yesterday on an east aspect just south of Loveland Pass. I assume this area has a name, I just don't know it. Picture was taken today. Alpine Rescue is visible on the debris doing some practicing.

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Oh, and FYI, I think this is called Kitchen Wall...

nice freejustin. yes, its the kitchen wall.

you prolly saw vicious and i ski the 2nd furthest lookers right chute as you were hiking over.

the sheltered areas such as more defined chutes saw a more consolidated predictable pack than the open cross loaded faces for sure (duh...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

nice freejustin. yes, its the kitchen wall.

you prolly saw vicious and i ski the 2nd furthest lookers right chute as you were hiking over.

the sheltered areas such as more defined chutes saw a more consolidated predictable pack than the open cross loaded faces for sure (duh...)

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Oh, cool! Yeah, looks like you had some sweet turns in between the rocks. :wink: That was nice snow. Did you guys ski off of Loveland ridge to the north? I'm curious what that was like over there, and if it was as tender as Kitchen Wall...

Quiz: Who is the biggest Jong?

I. The skiers who triggered this slide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coloskier

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8...ovelandry2.jpg

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II. Marshal for skiing a nearly identical line AFTER this one slid. Or did he trigger this one too?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

you prolly saw vicious and i ski the 2nd furthest lookers right chute as you were hiking over.

the sheltered areas such as more defined chutes saw a more consolidated predictable pack than the open cross loaded faces for sure (duh...)

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III. Coloskier for hiking under the hangfire with multiple others in order to dig a pit. (I count 9 in the picturer, all in the slide path - probably more on the flats). Oh and for not even telling us the Aspect and Elevation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coloskier

I did a quick fx line inspection/profile on this slide today. This was on the skier's left crown face in the lower break. See if you can make out my profile (hope it makes sense)...

-- Surface --
20cm slab 4F
--
2cm Fist
--
20cm slab 1F
--
3cm facets
-- *Avalanche broke at this interface* --
2cm crust P (bed surface)
--
5cm facets
-- Ground --

Compression test = CT0 Q1 Shot out while cutting the back
ECT 4

There are definite tender pockets in our limited coverage right now. Watch out for booby traps! Otherwise, pray for snow...

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IV. Sir Jongy for cowering in his house and not getting out at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Jongalot

IV. Sir Jongy for cowering in his house and not getting out at all.

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yep, definitely you.

Skied near Jones Pass on Sunday. Thin wind crust on top and the snow depth was variable from a couple inches to 2 feet or so just a foot or so away, in a word variable. I was with my dog so I stayed on lower angle stuff but didn't get anything to move with ski cuts. It was warm but the only snow that was affected was lower down. Didn't hit any rocks but was moving slowly and cautiously. It was kind of windy but no significant snow was moving with the wind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Jongalot

Oh and for not even telling us the Aspect and Elevation.

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That was my jongitude for failing to mention for those that don't know... Kitchen Wall is on an East aspect, I think around 12,200 or so. It's above the lake on the south side of Loveland pass.