1st Chiro visit and I'm leary

I have had chronic low back pain for years that gets worse during the summer biking season. I know the culprits- overtrained hamstrings/overtrained hip flexors, weak abs. However, the pain is to the point that any sort of muscle strength training to try to snap out of it isn't working. in fact, any abdominal work that I do makes it worse. Like can't sit, can't stand, walk like an 80 year old worse. I have tried massage therapy, yoga, stretching like it's my job, and pop pain meds every morning jsut to go to work. So I have just done what I consider my last resort- scheduled an adjustment with a chiropractor. They scare me and I don't trust the treatment, but I feel like I am out of options.

Can any mags give me any words of encouragement or suggest other alternatives? I am biking the San Juan Islands next week and have been spending tons of time in the saddle (both road and mtn), so I am prime for pain but also treatment.

I had great success with a chiro last year from lower back pain.

tight hamstrings were the cause, though, and once I committed to stretching before and after riding, the problem subsided.

Also, how's your mattress? (sounds like a pick-up line...)

A good chiropractor will be awesome and will likely (should) give you a course of action involving stretching and muscle balancing. FWIW I doubt your hams are overtrained from cycling directly. More likely overtrained from spasming trying to resist the hip flexors which are yanking on your pelvis. Also likely shortened from cycling. I find the chiro/physio a chicken or the egg thing. What comes first, stretch muscles so the skeleton can get into alignment or align the skeleton so the muscles can stop spasming and you have any hope of an effective stretch. It's likely to be some combo of the two but sometimes the alignment is just the thing to get you on track.

1. I wouldn't worry too much about the chiro visit although IMVHO for muscular stuff like this they're less useful than back/alignment issues. Talk to them about your concerns and if they can't make you feel okay bail, no biggie. Chiros are like snowflakes no two practice alike.

2. Have you tried seeing a physical therapist? more useful IMVHO for this kind of problem, a good one can help you balance your muscles.

3. dumb but: has your bike been properly fitted?

4. when I used to bike I had a lot of low-back pain while riding that was maily due to bowing my back and was mainly cured by training myself to adopt the somewhat unintuitive "natural" or standing spine posture (lowerback concave instead of convex).

5. got insoles? Getting my feet fixed has gone a LONG way toward fixing my back troubles, more than any chiro ever did. Although, I woke up with a BITCH of a kink in my neck/shoulder today :(

6. stretching IME just makes things worse, not better

7. not letting things heal also compounds your problem ;)

8. ski season for you should be the time to get your abs fixed, besides strong abs are to men what crack cocaine is to crackwhores.

good luck!

When I raced, I was always getting what was refered to as "Sacral misallignment" , i.e., the lower back was always getting tweaked and pulled out of place. Also had tight hammys. Trying to "stretch it better" always made it worse. I visited a chiropracter fairly regularly. Sessions were pretty short, 15-20 minutes and I was out of there. Instant relief.

Things to look out for: Quacks who try to sell you supplements or try to convince you that they can cure cancer using a Ouija board. Also beware of chiros who want a one hour initial exam/evaluation. BS! This was a big thing in PDX and a way to steal an extra $75-100 from you. Any good chiro will know right away what's wrong and will deal with it right away.

Good luck!

K, lemme know if you ever need a massage therapist. I had a pretty good one in NW PDX.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viva

K, lemme know if you ever need a massage therapist. I am pretty good one in NW PDX.

---

girlski says: "THAT BETTER BE A THUMB!"

I have had chronic lower back pain from an accident 8 years ago that bulged 2 discs.

I went through a few chiros till I found my doc, a former trainer for the San Diego Chargers. He is very sports oriented, obviously.

When I am having trouble, he works wonders.


But you have to do a lot on your own too. The chiro can and should point you to a "preventative" and "maintanence" routine to keep the abs and lower back muscles stronger.





Back issues really blow.

Good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Buzzworthy

I have had chronic lower back pain from an accident 8 years ago that bulged 2 discs.

I went through a few chiros till I found my doc, a former trainer for the San Diego Chargers. He is very sports oriented, obviously.

When I am having trouble, he works wonders.


But you have to do a lot on your own too. The chiro can and should point you to a "preventative" and "maintanence" routine to keep the abs and lower back muscles stronger.





Back issues really blow.

Good luck.

---

Thanks for all of the advice. As Buzz points out, while pain relief is my immediate concern for my upcoming trip, I am really trying to put into place something that can prevent this shit in the future. I have a lot of muscle re-training and re-working ahead of me but I need some serious guidance. The chiro I am seeing tomorrow is a friend of a friend and I have made it clear that I want one adjustment for now and am not interested in a long term treatment program. If he sucks, then I will resume my search for a physio and/or chiro who can help me once I am back from my trip.

F-ing back pain...totally rains on your parade. On days when my back is ok, I am happier at work, more productive, and sleep better. On days when it hurts, I am totally sluggish, bitchy, and my attitude sucks. Guess what kind of a day it is today?:wink:

Good luck!

As for your attitude. My momma always told me when life gives you lemons make lemonaide.

Since your attitude sucks, you should give blowjobs... :D

The other stretches that are VERY key for me are the glute/hip and the IT band. Some of these stretches when my back is screwed just give me instant relief. The hip flexor stretch also often works but that glute/hip is instant.

Girlski - I went through the exact same thing a couple of weeks ago. My back went out a month ago ie no bending over or back. I reinjured a disk. I stretched rested iced etc etc. I have had back issues in the past in the L5/S1 area bulged disc especially with the saco nerve. Anyway I would feel a little better then an hour or two or the next day it would all come back again.

I used your exact same quote to my wife " I feel like I am 80 years old" I have the same issues as you strong legs but no abs. Anyway I finally could not stand it anymore at work or home. I researched some chiros and found one that has a good practice, been in the same place forever, and has a sports background.

Bottomline, One of the best decisions I have ever made. I feel better with each day. Realignment and education with no gimmicks. He is all about education and preventitive action.

I was a chiro skeptic until I tried it. I still think that some of the deep-down theory behind it is bullshit, but it relieves my symptoms better than anything else.

That said, in my experience, it relieves symptoms, but doesn't cure anything or even prevent future flareups beyond the immediate. For that, physical therapy can be a lifesaver, and I've heard good things about using yoga to strengthen the core.

Go see a physical therapist or a massage therapist. They are generally cheaper and just as effective as the majority of Quackypractors out there.

Some Chiros are good. Many are not so good. Be wary of the prescription of "see me once a week for the next year." If they start talking about colon hydrotherapy and toxin cleansing, run like hell. DO NOT LET THEM ADJUST YOUR NECK (you could die).

Yet to see a concrete scientific definition of a "subluxion" or double blind peer reviewed studies demonstrating many chiro treatments as effective.

I found this website while searching for exercises for the lower back / sciatica. It is pretty informative for herniated discs and the dreaded DDD.

http://www.spine-health.com/topics/c.../sciaex01.html

Gotta love my insurance- $15 co-pay on massages. Had one over lunch that immediately provided relief that came to a screeching halt when I booked it, in heels, from the courthouse to my office for an interview. Stupid- I know, but necessary because I was late. Have an 11 am appointment tomorrow morning with the chiro, so here's hoping!

After my trip, it's physio time because this shit has been going on for too long.

girlski, do you have any pain that travels down the back of your leg?

Just curious, if so maybe you are having disc related back pain. Which if this is the case flexion exercises/positions will aggrivate it. ie. abdominal exercises/cycling, lifting etc......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by girlski

1st Chiro visit and I'm leary

---

Dennis or Timothy??
I'm guessing Timothy since it sounds like you are tripping.

Stop
Wearing
High
Heels

Dont be scared.....a good chiro will be your friend for sure.

I probably wouldnt be skiing without mine (as I cripple myself many weekends). Brittany was scared to go the first time, and now she loves it (especially since she got on my bene's two weeks ago).

The key is to understand what they are adjusting, and what goal you are working towards. They adjust because something is out of alignment, then muscles will tend to want to go back to the position they are used to, so the chiro will want to adjust again. The key is to learn what good alignment feels like, and just go when you know you have gotten out of wack.

(of course do all the yoga, core training, and other stretching too......there is no one silver bullet).

Is there a professional board for chiros in your state?
In Canada, there is a board of chiros that ensures proper education & training of chiros (I know, that doesn't guarantee good service, but it helps...)

Other than that, I have a friend who's back is f'ed due to a decade competing in aerials and the only thing that helps is a visit to a chiro. With that in mind, because of her sports competition background, she has the contact to a chiro that is probably way better than average....

We want the first Chiro TR Girlski!!! Post It.

The back is tricky as many things can contribute to pain but a good phsyio should be able to sort things out. I concur with what L7 said. Anyway, here’s what I’ve learned that worked for me:

The triple combo of sitting all day, biking, and skiing results in very strong and very short quads and hip flexors. This pulls the pelvis downward and removes the lumber curve from the spine, it also tightens the hamstrings. This needs to reversed by doing to following-

A) Lengthen the hip flexors and quads. Stretching, myofascial release (ART and foam rolling are great), and massage are often the best means. Kneeling quad (leg on bench behind) and lunging hip flexor stretches are good. Take a few minutes each hour to stretch.

B) Strengthen the core WITHOUT bending the spine. This basically is a combo of modified ab curls (hand under low back), planks, and birddogs. See here for demonstration- http://www.acefitness.org/pdfs/LowBackStabilization.pdf

C) Become cognizant of posture at ALL times; sitting at work, home on the couch, driving, etc. Maintain lumber curve!

D) Quit doing anything that makes things worse. It may suck to stop doing things you like but your body is giving you warning signs, better to take a break to fix things now rather than being completely out of commission later on.

For further reading see anything by Dr. Stuart McGill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stikki

The back is tricky as many things can contribute to pain but a good phsyio should be able to sort things out. I concur with what L7 said. Anyway, here’s what I’ve learned that worked for me:

The triple combo of sitting all day, biking, and skiing results in very strong and very short quads and hip flexors. This pulls the pelvis downward and removes the lumber curve from the spine, it also tightens the hamstrings. This needs to reversed by doing to following-

A) Lengthen the hip flexors and quads. Stretching, myofascial release (ART and foam rolling are great), and massage are often the best means. Kneeling quad (leg on bench behind) and lunging hip flexor stretches are good. Take a few minutes each hour to stretch.

B) Strengthen the core WITHOUT bending the spine. This basically is a combo of modified ab curls (hand under low back), planks, and birddogs. See here for demonstration- http://www.acefitness.org/pdfs/LowBackStabilization.pdf

C) Become cognizant of posture at ALL times; sitting at work, home on the couch, driving, etc. Maintain lumber curve!

D) Quit doing anything that makes things worse. It may suck to stop doing things you like but your body is giving you warning signs, better to take a break to fix things now rather than being completely out of commission later on.

For further reading see anything by Dr. Stuart McGill.

---

Stikki- lots of good stuff here for sure. I know that I have trained my body to this point and created the situation.

Huck- here is the TR (not pcitures!)

Go to a chiro that a defense attorney friend of mine recommended. I am careful to explain myself- I am an athelete who has trained my way to this point and my ultimate goal is to alleviate pain and put together a treatment plan to start to prevent this type of pain in the future. I have filled out the patient history form, complete with circling on the diagram where it hurts. There are a lot of circles, including my left upper rib cage that since Sunday (a HUGE digger into a rock pile in my bike) has caused me pain when I turn and breath in. He laughs when he looks ove rhte diagram and says,"looks like a long day." He thinks it is a good idea to refer me to a good physio, and I concur.

The games begin with him poking at all the spots that he suspects are bothering me. It's like being hit with a taser gun each time...I wiggle away from the pressure and make all sorts of stuggling noises. Then he starts contorting me and cracking. Not much success...the rib won't go back in, my neck won't release. My spine is doing this weird curving thing mid back and it won't give either. In come the heat packs and more adjusting. He has me stand up, he has me lay across his legs, he has me lay down...nothing is working. FUCK! At this time he starts talking about it being a 3-4 visit regime and I must make a face because he is like,"What?"

Long story short, I am going to go see someone else with a sports specialization. This guy is going to string me along and though he started off talking about physio, that's not the plan anymore. Everything felt fine till I went to court this afternoon and my neck seized up again, my back is all achy. I feel worse than I did before going to this guy. So I am taking one more night off from working out and debating another massage (or an adjustment) before I leave on my trip. I FUCKING HURT!

I lived with back pain for over 20 years. It affected everything I did. Limited my physical activities and made me an absolute shithead emotionally on the really bad days.

That said, I haven't had any issues in the past year and a half. I attribute this entirely to the pilates/yoga class I've been attending twice a week. I had back pain for the first few months of class, but I kept at it and have had a healthy back ever since. I can't begin to tell you how awesome this is after dealing with it for so long.

I've gone the chiro route, and frankly it doesn't really help. A much better option is to find a good physical therapist with a background in kinesthesiology. The problem with most chiros is that they merely adjust your vertebrae. This does you no good because the problem is generally muscular. So the chiro pops the vertebrae in place, but the bones just move back out of alignment because the inflamed/tight muscles are pulling on them incorrectly. So you have to treat the muscles and the bones will take care of themselves. A good PT will do this. Also, no one is going to cure you in one session. The number of sessions depends on the severity of the problem. A handful of appointments can be reasonable. Really, it shouldn't take much more than that.

This is why pilates has helped me so much. Not only has it strengthened my core, but it's balanced my core also. I also have very tight hamstrings and need to work on stretching them out more. Pilates has helped here, but they're so tight I need to do extra work. My teacher showed me a good stretch that I don't do (Arty = dumbass). I'm to the point that it's holding back my ability in class, but the pain is gone. The stretch is really simple too. Lie with you back on the floor and place your legs flat against a wall. Do this at least once a day, more if you want.

What's really cool is the control I now have over my body. Some mornings I'll wake up after sleeping wrong and have a kink in my back from a tight muscle. All I have to do is concentrate on my breathing, place myself in proper alignment, and relax that part of the body. The pain disappears instantly and doesn't come back. I can't begin to tell you how awesome this is.

So to sum up, here's my advice. See a PT/kinesthesiologist for painful flareups. Dedicate yourself to a yoga and/or pilates regimen to strengthen your core as a preventative measure. This is what I did and 20 years of chronic back pain is gone.

Edit: One caveat. If you have damaged discs or vetebrae, this advice may not apply to you. Most people who suffer from back pain don't have that kind of damage though.

Girlski, don't be leary about a chiro. If you see a good one that you like, stick with him. I have been seeing a chiro about once a week for 3 years now. I have arthritis in my lower back from an injury that happened when during a gymnastics fall off the beam when I was 12. It caused me considerable grief through high school and college, and on... until I started going to the chiro! I used to have my back flare up to the point where I'd get pains shooting down my leg and it was so freaking miserable. I still have pain there occasionally, but it's much less often, and the pain is minor compared to what it used to be. My back used to bother me riding too, but now it usually doesn't.

Give the chiro a couple months to work magic, and I think you will find you'll like it! :)