Wasatch 23/24 Stoke Thread: Red Snake Coverage coming at you live from tgapp's fartba

[sfotex]

Most people keep the triggers stashed except when skiing to avoid a possible accidental deployment. I'm not saying that's safe practice, but it's how they are commonly used.



Case in point, Craig Patterson: https://ascentbackcountry.com/avalan...rson-incident/

UDOT avy forecaster, literally took one extra step too far on what is considered a very safe ascent route and was killed by an 8" deep, 40 ft wide slide.

And he deployed his airbag...

[MagnificentUnicorn]

^^^ Excellent points.

And someone could ski BC for 40+ years without a scratch and still make a single and what turns out to be poor choice and is forever known as another experienced skier who died in an avalanche.

For sure it’s a dangerous game. That’s why it takes discipline to stay vigilant and conservative when making decisions. I’m not saying that I would never fuck up but we need to constantly question our decisions and motivation in avalanche terrain.

I’ve been reading about Munter reduction and it’s a really simple way of mitigating risk.


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[goldenboy]

One of my thoughts when I read the initial report was "well I usually carry an airbag" Then I thought about it longer and harder, and that mission fit the profile of a trip I would -possibly- leave my bag at home in favor of a lighter setup.

I agree with you though, I was somewhat taken aback coming from Colorado where most of my touring partners carried bags, folks in the Wasatch seem to be at less than 50% adoption rate. Seems airbags are more prevalent among the less hardcore crowd, for lack of a better term. But when you get back in the big terrain very few people are wearing them.

I even went so far as to offer my regular touring partners a sweetheart deal on my old airbag, but they were completely disinterested. I've spent some time musing on the topic on the skin track and only thing I can figure is price and weight. Although I do have to be a bit more tactical with space in my airbag too, which is annoying on technical missions.

Yeah, I was listening to the podcast that phall linked and I had to check the release date, thinking it was maybe a 10+ year old re-release when they talk about ~30-40% adoption. I have a hard time thinking of anyone who doesn't ski with one in winter. Which is interesting given the mid winter CO skiing is typically in terrain where airbags are less useful. Looking only at the photos, I'd agree with altacoup that both these slides look very survivable with an airbag. My trigger is usually stowed on ascents but it's also quite rare that I ascend avalanche terrain. I'll take any route around, even if it's longer. Even later in the year, I don't like being exposed to objective dangers like rockfall in a couloir for hours if I have another safer option.

I've also been surprised in some of my travels at the lack of adoption in some areas with radios. I'm pretty much at the point of calling it beacon, probe, shovel, radio as non-negotiable. As Covert said in his old Slide podcast episodes, radios are the one piece of avalanche gear that can prevent an avalanche from even occurring.

[D-Roc]

So you only use your weak insurance policy in exactly the situations where you claim it leads to a heuristic trap?

Not sure where you are going with this one - I use it when my I cannot adequately assess the factors of the day or a problem is 'widespread'. If that's the case - typically Ill stay home or hit SB

Let me be clear, I own one, I do use it but seldom. I'm just stating I use in certain scenarios.

[D-Roc]

Anyways, per sfotex's request and I owe him a few... Heres some stoke.

(took a long internet / social media break over the winter - I strongly encourage it)

Saturday went up and skied the most contrived ski line in the Wasatch - definitely interesting to say the least. An adventure in its own right. That and the 2 thunderstorms, wind, and getting pelted with graupel throughout periods of sun

Pulled and reset a few pins on her, so feel good about some of them haha -



Inching closer to finishing the Chuting Gallery although I'm having a hard time mustering the thought of the Pfieff NE couloir haha.

[connersw]

I have an airbag, I almost never bring it out - the only time it comes out is if I my skills, sense, homework, and terrain knowledge cannot give me a reasonable understanding of what lies below.

An airbag is a weak insurance policy and think it breeds a bravado - "i got an airbag" and would lead the skier to overlook a concern where they would otherwise think twice.

As a math person, the statistics speak for themselves in this article, worth a review:
https://wms.org/magazine/magazine/12...trauma%20alone.

I guess I don't understand your logic here as a "math person." The linked article shows a fairly significant survival rate for air bag carriers in both studies. How does that persuade you to not carry one?

I get the air bag bravado thing, but the same could be said for carrying a beacon or even wearing a helmet. Absolutely, education, terrain assessment, etc come first, but if there is a device that can statistically reduce fatalities, why should it be vilified? Is it really to keep your assessment more on point or do you just not want the weight?

And to be clear, I'm just trying to understand your general thought process here because it seems contradictory; not a personal critique or an assessment of the Big Willow accident.

[tgapp]

not from the wasatch, but this thread could use some more stoke - vibes to all affected in the LP tragedy

had a great time chasing corn with Fleaches, I'll cross post some of these pics in the appropriate regional thread

ticked a few classics, crossed a few streams, chilled in a hotspring, all together very well worth the short drive from Utardia

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[fleaches]

Couple of action shots of tgapp

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[byates1]

Stanburys?^

[Benneke10]

Stanburys?^

Looks like Bloody in the eastern Sierra. Kinda like a smaller, less cool version of the Stansburies

[byates1]

Yeah bloody. The east side is tits . Stansburies also tits. Tits everywhere. We are lucky.

[D-Roc]

Looks like Pinner on Laurel and Bloody Coulior on Bloody

[tgapp]

Looks like Pinner on Laurel and Bloody Coulior on Bloody

God I wish we got pinner, unfortunately the trailhead wasn't open unfortunately.

Not trying to put their zone on blast but Bloody is well enough known that posting about it isn't going to change any of the traffic there.

Really cool zone, just wanted to bring some stoke to my favorite thread here since fatalities are the ultimate anti stoke - D-roc, well done!!

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[D-Roc]

I guess I don't understand your logic here as a "math person." The linked article shows a fairly significant survival rate for air bag carriers in both studies. How does that persuade you to not carry one?

I get the air bag bravado thing, but the same could be said for carrying a beacon or even wearing a helmet. Absolutely, education, terrain assessment, etc come first, but if there is a device that can statistically reduce fatalities, why should it be vilified? Is it really to keep your assessment more on point or do you just not want the weight?

And to be clear, I'm just trying to understand your general thought process here because it seems contradictory; not a personal critique or an assessment of the Big Willow accident.

I just re read my post and did not articulate my point well at all. Restart and my apologies

To your statement above, I think an airbag is a weak insurance policy against bravado, it doesn't replace good decision making, that was the point I was trying to make (post responsibly and not stoned fyi) - I have seen and heard folks at the top of lines 'you should go first you have the airbag' as if its sending a guinea pig down in order to guarantee safe passage to the others in their group.

I am for the use of safety equipment and I don't mind the weight - I systemically carry a 30m rad line for bollard rappels, slope cuts, hip belays to test and evaluate slopes (another reason I prefer top down if I can)

Airbags are a tool and you need to use the right tool for the job. They don't outsmart a deep PWL as an example. Overall they help reduce trauma when deployed in time in objective hazard terrain (bag dependent), generate a larger surface area to probe strike, give enhanced visibility to rescuers during event (pin point), can enhance air pocket reserves, and increase flotation. Definitely pro airbag, I choose the tool based on what I need. Not going to use it during a diurnal snowpack mission for instance.

TGapp = nice pics, love that zone especially the heated bathroom at the playground near the hotsprings lol

[telefreewasatch]

The other routes are less direct, less convenient, and less scenic, so it becomes the default in "stable" conditions.

Little Willow is in trim for the first time in 50 yrs? now. More direct than Big, safe, same approach, quite scenic.
Just sayin.
Anyone wants to, pm me and I'll meet ya in the valley where I can show ya the route from...

[singlecross]

I have seen and heard folks at the top of lines 'you should go first you have the airbag'…

Wait, an airbag as a way to get first tracks? Sign me up!

[Boissal]

Not trying to put their zone on blast but Bloody is well enough known that posting about it isn't going to change any of the traffic there.

One of the most recognizable lines on the E side and one of the 50 classics, I think you're safe.
Looked pretty ripe up there!

[jsnowut]

Anybody need or want a Snowbird Freeloader Pass for their kid (18 and under) - LMK details in the next few days. Cheers!

[soul_skier]

God I wish we got pinner, unfortunately the trailhead wasn't open unfortunately.

Not trying to put their zone on blast but Bloody is well enough known that posting about it isn't going to change any of the traffic there.

Really cool zone, just wanted to bring some stoke to my favorite thread here since fatalities are the ultimate anti stoke - D-roc, well done!!

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As a California skier who shows up in UT to ski pow mid-winter, seems fair for the UT crew to get after it on the east-side in the spring. Besides, the barrier to entry for all the fun stuff out there is high enough that it'll never get too crowded. Glad you all got some fun turns!

[D-Roc]

As a California skier who shows up in UT to ski pow mid-winter, seems fair for the UT crew to get after it on the east-side in the spring. Besides, the barrier to entry for all the fun stuff out there is high enough that it'll never get too crowded. Glad you all got some fun turns!

Yea I've attempted Giant Steps 3 times? Never seen anyone at the trailhead lol

[wra]

A little corn in the morning.



A little rain in the afternoon.



Must be spring.