Smart Trainer Advice? (Wahoo?)

[Tech Tonics]

Hey all,

As mentioned in some other threads, my 16yo daughter has been developing an interest in racing. She’s pretty damn fast, so it’s funAF.

I’m trying to help her stay motivated and strong over the cold months. We aren’t much of a Nordork family so it’s hard to stay fit over the winter.

I was looking at the wahoo kickr core, but the Zwift Hub One is cool looking too, and being able to use it with multiple bikes and not needing to worry about the cassettes is a nice touch

Or is there a different trainer I don’t know about? This isn’t my jam (clearly) but I’ll probably use it some this winter too.

Anyone looking to sell their used trainers? Or know of any deals?

Thanks!


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[EWG]

Kickr Core is fairly bombproof and sort of an industry standard. We have two. Highly recommend.

[VTskibum]

^^ Will echo that. I have an Elite Direto I got on pretty good sale when Performance stores were closing, but would have bought a Kickr Core otherwise. The TACX Flux, Direto models, and others at that mid-tier are usually good value. Many friends either have full Kickr or Cores.

The Zwift device could be pretty good as well. So many of the differences between the top level and lowest level are edge use cases. I don't particularly care about my power being 1-2% accurate, nor having it appropriately simulate 30% grades while riding in my basement. YMMV

Also just for fun, you should consider getting some (used/cheap) rollers in addition to smart trainer. Maybe my old school mentality, but I do think it really makes a difference spending time on them to smooth out your pedal stroke.

[Iowagriz]

I'll add to do your research on how you will connect it to the internet. Via tablet, PC or Apple TV, etc..

For example, I knew that I was going to use my unused Apple TV, and it only accepted two Bluetooth inputs (from memory). Most trainers at that time sent separate signals for power, cadence, and heart rate. I found that the Direto bundled power and cadence into one signal, so I went in that direction.

This might be a bunch of old info as I haven't shopped for one in years, but watch out for that.

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[dan_pdx]

DC Rainmaker does extremely in-depth reviews of smart trainers, probably worth taking a look. For years he did an annual smart trainer roundup in the fall, where he gave recommendations at various price points, but I don't see one for 2023.

[igBand]

Just adding my cheap 2 cents...

I've got a 17-year-old and 14-year-old that race bikes. They keep busy racing nordic in the winter, but use the trainer for winter OYO training and to get at least one day/week on the bike. They love it. They tackle the trainer in earnest in mid-march when the ski trails melt out when road and gravel options are limited.

I have a Wahoo Kickr that my bike is on and nerded out on Wahoo vs. Zwift vs. Tacx vs. etc. for the second set-up. I ended up grabbing the Zwift Hub for them last winter and never once regretted it. It's just about perfect for their needs - and hard to beat the price!

[XtrPickels]

These days there's not enough of a difference to justify the higher priced trainers. The entry levels like the Hub and the Core are terrific.

[Tech Tonics]

I guess the question now is core vs hub.

I’m leaning towards the hub because we will be using it with multiple bikes.

Unless I can find a deal on a core I will probably be going that route.


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[VTskibum]

Why would the hub be better than core for multiple bikes? They’re both wheel off so have to have same cassette speed for both bikes on either trainer.


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[Tech Tonics]

Why would the hub be better than core for multiple bikes? They’re both wheel off so have to have same cassette speed for both bikes on either trainer.


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Because our bikes use different cassettes, so we’d have to swap the cassette on the trainer each time we’d switch bikes. Or, we use my bike and she just drops the saddle.

I think not having to worry about switching the cassette would make me more likely to use it

Unless I’m missing something?


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[VTskibum]

No, you’re right, that’s a major advantage over the Core. I was missing that it’s wheel off, but doesn’t have a specific cassette!?! Hadn’t read about it enough or noticed that in pictures.

Carry on…


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[Elkhound Odin]

If you want to consider something a little outside the box, take a look at the Nordtrack S22i studio bike. I've been using this for 2 years instead of an attachable trainer. It's fully compatible with iFit programs. The bike auto adjusts resistance and incline to match the program on the screen. Incline goes from +20% to -10%. Resistance goes plenty high to accommodate any class athlete. There are hundreds of workout to select. From spinning classes to road rides to mountain bike rides. Trainers include pro cyclists like Hincapie, Travis McCabe, and Bobby Julich. https://www.nordictrack.com/exercise...2i-studio-bike
Pros:
- always set-up & ready to go, no fiddling to attach your bike
- lots of workout options to pick from iFit
- auto incline & resistance
- on screen action can is more engaging than staring at a wall or TV show.
Cons:
- it's not your actual road bike (you can change the stock seat to preferred one though)
- it not compact (but has wheels so you can move it)
- it's not linked to Zwift database
- stock wrist heart rate monitor was POS. But bike will record from Garmin watch (or other bluetooth device)

If you have any questions, let me know

edit... you can put any pedals on this. I installed speedplays so both my wife & I can use it.

[singlesline]

If you want to consider something a little outside the box, take a look at the Nordtrack S22i studio bike. I've been using this for 2 years instead of an attachable trainer. It's fully compatible with iFit programs. The bike auto adjusts resistance and incline to match the program on the screen. Incline goes from +20% to -10%. Resistance goes plenty high to accommodate any class athlete. There are hundreds of workout to select. From spinning classes to road rides to mountain bike rides. Trainers include pro cyclists like Hincapie, Travis McCabe, and Bobby Julich. https://www.nordictrack.com/exercise...2i-studio-bike
Pros:
- always set-up & ready to go, no fiddling to attach your bike
- lots of workout options to pick from iFit
- auto incline & resistance
- on screen action can is more engaging than staring at a wall or TV show.
Cons:
- it's not your actual road bike (you can change the stock seat to preferred one though)
- it not compact (but has wheels so you can move it)
- it's not linked to Zwift database
- stock wrist heart rate monitor was POS. But bike will record from Garmin watch (or other bluetooth device)

If you have any questions, let me know

edit... you can put any pedals on this. I installed speedplays so both my wife & I can use it.

It is a real bummer that some of these more affordable standalone bikes don't have the ability to connect to Zwift or TrainerRoad...especially since I believe the Nordictrack iFit screen thing is literally running Android under the hood.

I know there are people who are trying to hack them, but either they have nothing working or it is complex and hard to make work.

The Kickr/Wattbike/Tacx type standalone bikes are $$$$ and some don't even have screens and stuff built in. Ive seen these Nordictrack bikes on sale for <$1500, and used ones probably pop up for peanuts.

Would have loved a standalone--can share with my wife, can more easily make fit tweaks (bit factor IMHO--riding position that works on my gravel bike that spends a lot of saddle time climbing might not be ideal for comfortably spinning on a trainer that sits flat)...but I'm not paying $3k+ for an exercise bike. You could buy a nice trainer and a dedicated trainer bike for less...

[smartyiak]

I have a Kickr (which I really like...I refer to it as "the best cycling purchase I've ever made...not favorite, but: best)...but it was also $$$$$.

If I was looking now, I'd seriously consider:

https://bikecloset.com/product/elite...with-cassette/

[beaterdit]

I guess the question now is core vs hub.

I’m leaning towards the hub because we will be using it with multiple bikes.

Unless I can find a deal on a core I will probably be going that route.


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I've got a KICKR that I like a lot but the no cassette feature looks really nice. The cassette that came with my KICKR is garbage and didn't match the gears I have on the bike or, more importantly, shift well. To save having to adjust my derailleur every time I put the bike on the trainer and vice versa, I had to buy an Ultegra cassette for the trainer. Not the end of the world but still. Multiply the issue by a couple or more bikes and that's a real hassle.

[bennymac]

It is a real bummer that some of these more affordable standalone bikes don't have the ability to connect to Zwift or TrainerRoad...especially since I believe the Nordictrack iFit screen thing is literally running Android under the hood.

I know there are people who are trying to hack them, but either they have nothing working or it is complex and hard to make work.

The Kickr/Wattbike/Tacx type standalone bikes are $$$$ and some don't even have screens and stuff built in. Ive seen these Nordictrack bikes on sale for <$1500, and used ones probably pop up for peanuts.

Would have loved a standalone--can share with my wife, can more easily make fit tweaks (bit factor IMHO--riding position that works on my gravel bike that spends a lot of saddle time climbing might not be ideal for comfortably spinning on a trainer that sits flat)...but I'm not paying $3k+ for an exercise bike. You could buy a nice trainer and a dedicated trainer bike for less...

A spin bike with $500 Garmin power pedals will connect it to zwift - major downside is that the resistance doesn’t change automatically to mimic the grade. The “output” needed to climb a hill is still the same - but it is a bit easier as you don’t have to shift to adapt to grade changes.

[Dee Hubbs]

A spin bike with $500 Garmin power pedals will connect it to zwift - major downside is that the resistance doesn’t change automatically to mimic the grade. The “output” needed to climb a hill is still the same - but it is a bit easier as you don’t have to shift to adapt to grade changes.

This defeats the whole purpose of a smart trainer and the Zwift program.
The ability for Zwift to control the trainer, add resistance, or set the power output in ERG mode is the major feature of the current technology. Other wise you should just buy an old used $100 spin bike and watch a Richard Simmons video.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

It is a real bummer that some of these more affordable standalone bikes don't have the ability to connect to Zwift or TrainerRoad...especially since I believe the Nordictrack iFit screen thing is literally running Android under the hood.

I know there are people who are trying to hack them, but either they have nothing working or it is complex and hard to make work.

The Kickr/Wattbike/Tacx type standalone bikes are $$$$ and some don't even have screens and stuff built in. Ive seen these Nordictrack bikes on sale for <$1500, and used ones probably pop up for peanuts.

Would have loved a standalone--can share with my wife, can more easily make fit tweaks (bit factor IMHO--riding position that works on my gravel bike that spends a lot of saddle time climbing might not be ideal for comfortably spinning on a trainer that sits flat)...but I'm not paying $3k+ for an exercise bike. You could buy a nice trainer and a dedicated trainer bike for less...

You can get the SB20 for the same price. Seems like it's been on sale around that price for a long time now. I think last year it was even less and came with a free year of Zwift. That said, the internet rumor mill is that Stages as a company is on life support. So buyer beware.

[Dee Hubbs]

You can get the SB20 for the same price. Seems like it's been on sale around that price for a long time now. I think last year it was even less and came with a free year of Zwift. That said, the internet rumor mill is that Stages as a company is on life support. So buyer beware.

4 months ago the internet rumor was that Wahoo was on it last legs......

[bennymac]

This defeats the whole purpose of a smart trainer and the Zwift program.
The ability for Zwift to control the trainer, add resistance, or set the power output in ERG mode is the major feature of the current technology. Other wise you should just buy an old used $100 spin bike and watch a Richard Simmons video.

I already said it comes with a major downside.

I disagree that it defeats the “whole” purpose of zwift.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

4 months ago the internet rumor was that Wahoo was on it last legs......

True. But reports have been that Stages warranty/customer service assistance has been extremely difficult to get as a result of whatever's going on there.

I already said it comes with a major downside.

I disagree that it defeats the “whole” purpose of zwift.

With no gradient changes and no ERG mode, I'm a also bit confused about what the point of Zwift would be. I guess you could still do group rides?

[VTskibum]

Agree w others? W/o smart resistance Zwift is pretty useless. Trainerroad or following prescribed workouts would still be viable though


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[bennymac]

You can still race - the pedals send power and cadence to zwift just like a smart trainer would. You can do workouts - you just have to adjust the tension to get the power in the targeted zone. You can still ride up the Alpe and see how fast you can do it in. You can do group rides as well. Not saying this is ideal - I made that clear repeatedly- but if someone has a spin bike or even a peleton bike this is a way to do it.

Even “less ideal” than that set up = there are lots of people out there Zwifting on “dumb” trainers who don’t even have power being measured - Zwift has an algorithm to guess their power. There are enoigh people out there doing that - to the level that some Zwift races don’t allow these users into their events because this is not a great way to measure the riders true performance. To be clear I’m not saying this setup is ideal - just that there are enough people doing this that restrictions had to be developed.

[farmguy]

I just bought the Zwift and added my old steel framed biked to it for a dedicated trainer set up. Love it. I use a Garmin head unit and I use FasCat training program. The biggest thing I had to get used to was never shifting the bike, its single speed heaven. Garmin and trainer work together and set power to the workout of the day. I use the trainer now more than ever,

[beaterdit]

Timely thread, thinking of grabbing a trainer. I never thought I'd want one so never payed any attention to them - looking at them now the technology looks pretty impressive and Zwift looks pretty damn fun.

I see 11 speed cassettes seem to be the standard. Can I simply swap my Giant Contend AR's 8 speed cassette onto the trainer? Are there any other compatibility issues to consider?

EDIT also, can I assume the tech has improved considerably in the last several years? Noticed on a local buy and sell there's a used Kickr V1 from 2016 for 400CAD. I generally don't mind used but that's pretty old.

V2 rolled out in ‘16 so that one may be older. Looks like V2 got quieter.

I have a 2017 V3 that I bought on closeout in 2019. It’s a sweet machine. It’s pretty loud but not as loud as my old mag trainer or rollers. Looks like V4 got quieter still and also a bigger flywheel. If I was in the market now I’d look for aV4+.

I found this guide to the different generations.