Bobby's used car lot and Free Carfax

[riser4]

I would trust it more from Toyota or Honda. I already don't trust Subaru, and along with VW, they have a history of quirky problems. This particular system seems ripe for quirky problems. And yes, it's a question of getting used to it. It definitely hinders the ability to take off rapidly from a stop, such as pulling out of a parking lot, or making a left turn.

[BmillsSkier]

With my new car the ASS isn't that bothersome and actually feels like it acts like a manual as it completely disengages the drive train and you even get a touch of rollback until the braking takes over. Startup is near instant and I think the mild-hybrid comes into play at that moment so there's no lag, but I'll let someone smarter than me tell me if that's how it exactly works.

The system can be a bit aggressive shutting down as you approach a stop but it learns habits and you can prevent or force it to stop by how hard you push on the brake pedal. I'm not too concerned with the starter breaking.

[MontuckyFried]

With my new car the ASS isn't that bothersome and actually feels like it acts like a manual as it completely disengages the drive train and you even get a touch of rollback until the braking takes over. Startup is near instant and I think the mild-hybrid comes into play at that moment so there's no lag, but I'll let someone smarter than me tell me if that's how it exactly works.

The system can be a bit aggressive shutting down as you approach a stop but it learns habits and you can prevent or force it to stop by how hard you push on the brake pedal. I'm not too concerned with the starter breaking.

As with many things, YMMV. I've learned that some manufacturers implement it better than others. Audi probably does it better than just about anyone. The auto-stop start on my rental Chrysler Pacifica on the other hand, is pretty annoying. The experience is jarring and overly aggressive.

My Mercedes has it as well, but I find it less annoying than others due to the brake hold feature. Killer feature btw, and a real spoiler once you get used to it. Very underrated little detail that nobody ever told me about before. Still, I choose to shut off the auto-stop start manually whenever I think about it because I'm really not in the mood for an overpriced, unnecessary, and premature starter repair bill.

[jono]

ASS has been around for a few years now. I wonder how long it took before oil systems started being optimized to reflect the expectation of less time spent at idle?

[MontuckyFried]

Ford claims the F-150 starter is upgraded in the ASS models to account for increased usage, plus the restart is supposed to be lower-impact because the whole process is optimized for efficiency.

It's true that modern starters ARE beefed up. Older starters were traditionally rated for around 50,000 start cycles (I think. Somebody fakt check me on that). Manufacturers have claimed that the newer starters are rated for triple that amount. However, consider this. In the past, we'd start our cars ONCE for your trip, shut it off at the end. That's 1 start cycle per trip. Nowadays, especially if you're in stop/go traffic or dealing with tons of traffic lights, on that one trip your starter motor can go through like a 100 cycles in one go.

So, at least according to my math, they'd have to beef them up for a helluva lot more than triple the cycles to expect the same longevity as the old ones. I haven't had to replace a starter I think EVER on any of my old vehicles, and they're generally pretty damn reliable. I don't expect the starter on my Merc to make it to 1/4 million miles like the one on my Volvo.

Of course all of this depends on driving routines. If you're a highway warrior, then it absolutely does not matter. If you're in Los Angeles or Bay Area, then yeah. That's gonna be murder on your starter.

[MontuckyFried]

I don't do enough longer drives to keep my battery charged enough for the ASS to kick in, so I don't really have much anecdotal evidence, but I'd be shocked if there was widespread early failure on F-150 starters without Internet uproar.

Older starters were supposed to have "life expectancies" of 10-20 years. I don't think AS/S has been out long enough to provide quite enough overwhelming anecdotal evidence just yet, but I predict that storm's coming. Anecdotally, I do have a buddy who's Chevy Malibu has gone through around 3 starters (first one under 50K), but he admits that car's a POS so YMMV. Haha.

[BmillsSkier]

Chevy Malibu

Nuff said.

The other half has had just about every variety of fleet vehicle in her career and outside of a Chrysler Concorde, the Chevy Malibu stands out as the biggest piece of shit in the lot. One was delivered with a dozen or so miles on it fresh from the poop factory had to be exchanged because the noxious offgassing from all the cheap plastic and fabric gave anyone inside a migraine within 10 minutes if the windows weren't rolled down.

The current Volvo XC60 is far and away the best of the fleet bunch (unsurprisingly).

[BmillsSkier]

GT3 sounds good

Wonder if they’re campaigning a factory team in IMSA this year starting with Rolex24? I know they’ve been running Mustangs (and Camaros) in GT4 the past couple years but have stayed away from the big league for one reason or another (at least with the Camaro GM isn’t going to cannibalize its super successful halo programs in Cadillac and Corvette).

I’m all for more GT3 car competition, but would prefer if Ford did it by bringing back the GT instead of a Mustang.

[huckbucket]

With my new car the ASS isn't that bothersome and actually feels like it acts like a manual as it completely disengages the drive train and you even get a touch of rollback until the braking takes over. Startup is near instant and I think the mild-hybrid comes into play at that moment so there's no lag, but I'll let someone smarter than me tell me if that's how it exactly works.

The system can be a bit aggressive shutting down as you approach a stop but it learns habits and you can prevent or force it to stop by how hard you push on the brake pedal. I'm not too concerned with the starter breaking.

That's because it doesn't use a traditional starter. Substituted with something called an integrated starter generator. See here;

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a36331...tem-explained/

Mild hybrid battery manages all that.

[Ted Striker]

^^^ same way a turboprop starts.

With the 2nd gen Prius, Toyota proved start/stop is a non-issue. Taxi companies routinely put 300-400k miles on them without failures.

[MontuckyFried]

^^^ same way a turboprop starts.

With the 2nd gen Prius, Toyota proved start/stop is a non-issue. Taxi companies routinely put 300-400k miles on them without failures.

Yes but the Prius is a hybrid which uses the battery to get rolling and then the momentum is enough to get the engine smoothly rolling. Kind of like on old manual transmission cars how you can shut off the ignition and turn it back on without cranking the starter. A seamless transition. NORMAL, every day, non-hybrid/mild-hybrid cars do a LOT more work.

The system on the Audi seems to be the right compromise since that system actually works well. I've heard good things about the newer Volvos as well. I'm sure all the higher end brands are good at it. Chrysler and Chevy AS/S systems are teh suckage tho. Not a fan.

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[El Chupacabra]

Yes but the Prius is a hybrid which uses the battery to get rolling and then the momentum is enough to get the engine smoothly rolling.

That's not how it works. The Toyota hybrids use a sort of starter, but not in a traditional sense - Google and see.

If a Prius needs to start off the line at a speed higher than pure battery can provide, the engine will start, but not as a result of the battery moving the vehicle forward.

[BmillsSkier]

If a Prius needs to start off the line at a speed higher than pure battery can provide, the engine will start, but not as a result of the battery moving the vehicle forward.

After which it will be automatically directed to the far left passing lane of whatever roadway it is on where it will proceed to amble along at 10-15 mph less than the posted speed limit with no intention to move out of the way.

[riser4]

After which it will be automatically directed to the far left passing lane of whatever roadway it is on where it will proceed to amble along at 10-15 mph less than the posted speed limit with no intention to move out of the way.

Troot.

[Mustonen]

I actually like the auto start/stop in my Audi and in my wife’s VW. Nice to sit at the stoplight in silence. I let go of the brake and she lights up like she should. If I don’t want it to shut off I feather the brake when it first starts to shut off.

Zero complaints about that system, except sometimes it doesn’t shut off when I want it to.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

I mean, it's a couple buttons more when I start up the milf mobile - push start, push off ASS, push off ECO, push off traction control, select the sirius station, push the garage door opener, and away we go.

I get more irritated with the lane assist "nudge". They can fuck right off with that shit.

[riser4]

Oh, Dog I fucking hate active lane assist. I almost ended up in the ditch the first time it came on during winter conditions. I didn't know it did that and I was fighting it. And then once the road was totally covered with snow, it lit up like a Christmas tree telling me it wasn't working. I swear it wanted me to stop the car since it figured that it wasn't safe to drive without it. Turning it off lights up a bunch of lights and it keeps displaying a pop up at inconvenient times telling me it's off. Ya, I know it's off. I'm not willingly turning it back on either.

[Mustonen]

Gotta say I do really like how Audi presents all that stuff. I can turn on lane assist on long drives with clear highways and it keeps me off the rumblestrips, but it never really gets in the way and the car DGAF whether I have it on or not. Turning off stability control is just a click of a button. ASS is the same, though like I said above I actually like that.

What the hell are you driving, Riser? Sounds like a Subaru.

[riser4]

Gotta say I do really like how Audi presents all that stuff. I can turn on lane assist on long drives with clear highways and it keeps me off the rumblestrips, but it never really gets in the way and the car DGAF whether I have it on or not. Turning off stability control is just a click of a button. ASS is the same, though like I said above I actually like that.

What the hell are you driving, Riser? Sounds like a Subaru.

Bingo!

[Ted Striker]

Oh, Dog I fucking hate active lane assist.

Literally the first thing I turn off.

[Ted Striker]

NORMAL, every day, non-hybrid/mild-hybrid cars do a LOT more work.

Non-hybrid ICE engines always do more work. The rest is just a matter of engineering/materials spec.

Yes but the Prius is a hybrid which uses the battery to get rolling and then the momentum is enough to get the engine smoothly rolling.

tl;dr the 2nd gen Prius engine does start under load


Expanded version:
The second gen Prius has no direct connection between the engine and wheels. Without electricity, the ICE cannot move the car.

The drivetrain consists of two motor/generators: MG 2 which is a drive motor connected to the wheels, and MG 1 which is connected to the gas engine via a planetary gear set and clutch/flywheel. The ratio between the two MGs is about 2.5 to 1.

When the car is on, and the traction battery has a sufficient state of charge, if the driver commands a subtle acceleration, MG 2 will provide the power to the wheels directly. MG 1 will freewheel backwards, and the engine won't spin.

When the car hits about 35 mph, MG 1 is close to its rev limit, so a charge is applied to electromagnetically slow it, which in turn starts the ICE. So it doesn't have the luxury of idling, and goes straight to work.

Similarly, when the car is at a standstill and the driver floors it, the power demand is higher than MG 2 can provide without over revving MG1, so battery power is applied to MG 1 to prevent backspin, and the ICE starts under full power.

[huckbucket]

There are cars where active lane assist is on by default? VAG doesn't do that.

[Ted Striker]

BMW

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

I've had Caddy rentals that had the lane assist on as default. Maybe there was a way to shut it off in settings but I never have time to figure out anything more than the setting up bluetooth.

[jm2e]

Mild Hybrid has to be the CFL of car evolution. I see zero reason for them to exist outside of a marketing campaign.


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