Athletic performance in your 40s?

[ironhippy]

Your comment is implying I told him to start with 80lb bells. SMH. If he can hold and pick up dumbells with his legs while laying on his stomach, I'm pretty sure he can swing a light kettlebell and work up.

You didn't tell him to work up, but either way, I wouldn't want someone with a slipped disk doing anything with a swinging motion, so I wouldn't assume he can do anything because I don't know what's wrong with him or how wrong it is.

[alias_rice]

There's a pretty decent number of placebo-controlled RCTs showing that hydrolyzed collagen supplementation improves joint pain related to sports and mild to moderate osteoarthritis compared to placebo. There are also some high quality radiolabeling studies showing that collagen peptides are incorporated intact into cartilage and skin which may be directly stimulating connective tissue synthesis.

Hydrolyzed collagen supplementation is also effective at improving skin wrinkles and skin elasticity (in people old enough to have such issues) and outperforms placebo. Some of these studies used 3D photographic techniques and computerized analysis to measure wrinkle count and depth objectively, so they're not just based on subjective visual assessment. This is off-topic from joint pain, but it does seem to support the idea that hydrolyzed collagen supplementation improves connective tissue synthesis throughout the body.

10 g/day seems to be the ideal collagen dose. I also take about 10 g of glycine daily. I've found several papers that suggest that glycine supplementation improves collagen synthesis (links below). Glycine also happens to be very sweet, almost as sweet as sugar, so I dissolve it in a little hot water then mix in lemon/lime juice and seltzer to make super tasty healthy lemonade/limeade. It's pretty cheap, I think my last order worked out to something like $0.25/10 g dose.

https://link.springer.com/article/10...038-009-0100-9
https://link.springer.com/article/10...726-013-1493-1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6153947/



Consider getting into rucking and replacing your walks with rucks.

Interestingly enough I had a friend who started rucking a while ago and swears by it. Probably not a bad way to push into zone 2 cardio when walking the dog.

[EWG]

I'm sure there are a few here with better insight, but found this article in Scientific American interesting:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...burn-calories/




------------

Is there anything I can do to build muscle in the low back besides weighted leg raises? I think I mentioned earlier but I have atrophied muscle in this area from an injury years ago and then compensating with surrounding muscles.

I have been putting a dumbbell between my legs, laying stomach down on a bench and doing raises, but curious if there is something else out there I can do. This muscle deficiency pretty much puts a hold on deadlift and even some other excercises until I get it much bigger and stronger.

Would low weight or bar weight Good Mornings work with your back?

[oldnew_guy]

Your comment is implying I told him to start with 80lb bells. SMH. If he can hold and pick up dumbells with his legs while laying on his stomach, I'm pretty sure he can swing a light kettlebell and work up.

As long as it's been cleared by a physio therapist.

He really needs to figure out what is wrong before you can safely recommend exercises to fix it, you risk causing more damage (especially with your back, especially if you are over 40) otherwise

+100 on seeing a PT.

A good progression to deadlift as I found out recently is cable pull throughs, Romanian deadlifts, then actual deadlifts. Four weeks, twice a week cable pull through. Next four weeks RDLs. Next four weeks - deadlifts. YMMV

SEE THE THERAPIST FIRST. And good luck with recovery.

I posted link to the source up thread somewhere but here it is again : https://youtu.be/ixkQaZXVQjs

This. A good PT. You will have set backs as you push forward. I've been through something similar and having someone smart to help me figure out the puzzle was key.

You need to see a good PT.

Back extensions work well

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I'm an idiot and should have said that I've seen a PT and I'm on the tail end of a multi month program to get to the point where I am. I have a long way to go to get to where I want to be.

I'm looking for some variety and complementary back exercises I can take to my PT for clearance as I build back into weightlifting. I'm cleared to do 100# deadlifts. (I can lift more than this...just not cleared to lift more on my own until I can get these muscles developed. Gah)

[EWG]

You only spent half a day like an 80 year old? Seems pretty good recovery to me.

If you have osteoarthritis there's not much you can do. Age related degenerative changes in the knees or ankles won't simply go away, certainly not when exacerbated by the high activity level previously described. Seems pretty reasonable to feel 80 years old after hauling a pack for those distances. Your certainly probably healthier than 99% of the population who couldn't do that when they were 20.

There is 3.5 billion spent annually on glucosamine/chondroitin supplements with marginal/questionable efficacy, but who knows, maybe the placebo effect would help you.

I use gluco/chond tabs. They worked for me when I started them. Absolutely no question in my mind. I reviewed the studies and I’m thinking the way to explain the results is that they work on some very specific issues but not great generally. Or maybe for some people with chondromalacia. All I know is that when I started taking them I was much younger and had progressed to the point where I couldn’t kneel without quite a bit of pain, and two weeks afterwards I could. I think is was increased fluid in the joint from the chondroitin. That allowed me to start PT and then lift - which I’ve done ever since. Not sure I still need the supplements but I still take them a few days per week.

Fwiw. Ymmv.

[californiagrown]

Interestingly enough I had a friend who started rucking a while ago and swears by it. Probably not a bad way to push into zone 2 cardio when walking the dog.

Rucking: lets load the spine, hips, knees and ankles for long periods of time, while fatigued, in an uncontrolled/unstable manner and see what happens!

IMO, if you have joint issues, rucking would be near the bottom of the list. If you absolutley must do it, it would probably be best to do the old fill the pack with watter bottles and go ruck up something, dump the water at the top, and walk back down unloaded. Or load up HEAVY and limit the work to distances where you can still focus on and actively cushion each step with some "bounce" (Ill sometimes throw on an 80lb vest and take my dog for a loop around the hilly neighborhood that is about 4/5ths of a mile, its a heavy enough load and short enough distance that it forces me to stay tight with all muscles engaged the whole time- basically turning it into a form of loaded carry instead of rucking). Nothing beats the everloving shit out of your joints like walking downhill, with a loaded pack, while fatigued.

[Dantheman]

Peak loads walking are 2.5x-3x BW. Peak loads running are ~8x BW. A moderately heavy ruck at 25% of BW only increases peak load to from 3x BW to 3.75x BW. On a 160 lb person that's a peak load of 600 lbs vs 480 lbs for unloaded walking, compared to 1,300 lbs for unloaded running. Also, let's recall that alias just did a backpack trip that finished with a 20-mile 5k vert day.

[californiagrown]

Peak loads walking are 2.5x-3x BW. Peak loads running are ~8x BW. A moderately heavy ruck at 25% of BW only increases peak load to from 3x BW to 3.75x BW. On a 160 lb person that's a peak load of 600 lbs vs 480 lbs for unloaded walking, compared to 1,300 lbs for unloaded running. Also, let's recall that alias just did a backpack trip that finished with a 20-mile 5k vert day.

Id guess that walking downhill bumps that multiplier up quite a bit (I would assume folks on a ski forum would likely ruck in hilly/mountainous terrain), and is also heavily dependent on how quickly a person walks/rucks (i would again assume that a guy putting in 20mile 5k days backpacking moves pretty fast). But regardless, increasing joint loading by 25% at each foot strike on someone for long periods of time, in an unstable manner, while fatigued is not something that should be recommended to a person with a fused ankle complaining about joint pain, IMO.

Agreed though. Guy is doing really well if he is able to put in big days like that on a bum ankle and is only out of commission for a day afterwards.

[carlh]

I started throwing ~20lbs in my day pack hiking with my son and it is noticeable in working some extra stability especially in my glutes. Seems like an easy way to increase the training value of walking you are doing anyway.
I also finally bought a lifting setup and am doing squats, deadlifts, bent rows, bench and pull ups 1x per week and need to optimize my lifts but I can tell this was long overdue.

[Mofro261]

I'm an idiot and should have said that I've seen a PT and I'm on the tail end of a multi month program to get to the point where I am. I have a long way to go to get to where I want to be.

I'm looking for some variety and complementary back exercises I can take to my PT for clearance as I build back into weightlifting. I'm cleared to do 100# deadlifts. (I can lift more than this...just not cleared to lift more on my own until I can get these muscles developed. Gah)

Depending on where you are at in the recovery, unweighted exercises I do that help strengthen back stabilizers are clam shells, fire hydrants, and bird dogs. Also rec using these as recovery sets in in-between lifts.

Weighted exercises like suit case carries, pullof press, standing oblique crunches, should target your OL as well.

Not a PT and but I am either doing prehab or rehab continually it would seem over the last 25 yrs.

If you don't already, I'd recommend mixing in some yoga/pilates as well, it all helps.

[Dantheman]

Id guess that walking downhill bumps that multiplier up quite a bit (I would assume folks on a ski forum would likely ruck in hilly/mountainous terrain), and is also heavily dependent on how quickly a person walks/rucks (i would again assume that a guy putting in 20mile 5k days backpacking moves pretty fast).

Walking down stairs ups the peak load from 3x to about 4x. It's more, but still far below running loads. I haven't seen data on how much pace affects peak load, but adding weight also inherently slows you down.

But regardless, increasing joint loading by 25% at each foot strike on someone for long periods of time, in an unstable manner, while fatigued is not something that should be recommended to a person with a fused ankle complaining about joint pain, IMO.

In a vacuum, sure. For this specific individual with the specific information they provided about their situation I think it's entirely appropriate. Also, I said he should consider replacing his walks with rucks. I didn't tell him to go on 8 hr rucks up mountain peaks.

[Foggy_Goggles]

So rucking is backpacking, without going anywhere? Do you have to set up the tent in the backyard or it that optional?

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[bennymac]

As long as you tell people you went for a ruck and pretend they should already know what you mean then the tent set up is optional. A roof top tent makes for a good recovery space after though.

[californiagrown]

So rucking is backpacking, without going anywhere? Do you have to set up the tent in the backyard or it that optional?

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

Doesnt matter how small the backpack is, you can call it rucking. Which does beg the question, does a loaded fanny pack count as rucking?

[joetron]

As long as you tell people you went for a ruck and pretend they should already know what you mean then the tent set up is optional. A roof top tent makes for a good recovery space after though.

Gold


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[Dantheman]

As long as you tell people you went for a ruck and pretend they should already know what you mean then the tent set up is optional. A roof top tent makes for a good recovery space after though.

Gold

[Foggy_Goggles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLy2rYHwUqY&t=93s

I broke my collarbone 8ish weeks ago so I've been focused on PT and "doing what I can" while letting the bone heal. It feels real good to do some planks and down dogs.

As we get older, being health before you get injured really shows it benefits. So keep at it ya'll. Skiing is on the horizon. Don't make it too complicated. Feeling good make you feel good.

[Dantheman]

There's always a "do what you can" option. Even if you're bedridden just doing lots of flexing can be incredibly beneficial.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Agreed. And in my situation it has been a shit ton more than I expected. No bike riding, no heavy lifting (20lbs. work or exercise) but other than that it's been going great. I posted that video as I just got back to the full weight bearing poses and it feels awesome.

[goldenboy]

I couldn't do a single thing in that video Foggy
Maybe after I trade in these OEM hips

[Foggy_Goggles]

I couldn't do a single thing in that video Foggy
Maybe after I trade in these OEM hips

I don't like hearing that. My Eagle Legs is still pretty janky even after years. I hope you don't have to get hip replacement although a hear it works pretty good.

[goldenboy]

I don't like hearing that. My Eagle Legs is still pretty janky even after years. I hope you don't have to get hip replacement although a hear it works pretty good.

Oh yeah. this has been the summer of visiting hips docs to decide which one to do it. It's probably time when the first thing one of them says when looking at the MRI is "impressive", meaning how the heck are you walking, let alone skiing and biking at a high level.

On the bright side I'm doing so much PT core work that I'm crazy fast this summer on the bike. And that will carry through after I do the THR next May/June.

[phatty]

I've been following this thread for a long time as I'm a solid 48. I work out 4-6 times per week and love hiking/trail running. I do some cycling, but trails are where I prefer to spend my time.

This Tuesday I had a massive heart attack (near 100% blockage of my right coronary artery) while running and was fortunate to have been on the roads near home so people saw me collapse and were able to call 911 and get me help. It was a fluke thing (plaque ruptured and body caused a clot forming the blockage) but just goes to show that it doesn't always matter what you do. All my friends are starting to freak out because if it can happen to me, health and exercise are not going to save them.

For me, I'll be back running again in a month or so and plan to get back to where I was, though I won't push things too fast. I still got a lot of days on the trails ahead of me and kids I need to see grow up. Hug your families and friends and make sure to tell them you love them.

[Dantheman]

Holy shit, so glad to hear you're not dead!

[Viva]

God Damn, patty! Take care and follow a safe-and-sane re over program.

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