Real Estate Crash thread

[Foggy_Goggles]

What the Upper Roaring Fork Valley wants to do with their tax revenue is not my business. But to hold it up as an example how its working seems like a bit of a stretch.

Personally, I don't want to live in subsided housing and I don't want that to be the norm for the community I've lived in for 30 years. I'd like the conversation to consider the alternatives.

Send the bill to the consumer in the form of higher prices. That's what the construction industry does. Invest in infrastructure. Make commuting cool again. Pay teachers and other important civil servants 2x what they make. Let the for profit sector sink or swim.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[dunfree]

Lol. Doubling salary for teachers and civil servants ain’t gonna change shit when they are competing against centimillionaires and billionaires, but you do your deluded brobullshit

[Foggy_Goggles]

K buddy. I'd tell you to shut the fuck up about what you don't know but that not your game.

The point is that many places don't have nor are they attractive to billionaires yet there is not stock of housing for working people to afford.

Everyone is always moving the piñata but nobody is taking a swing.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[dunfree]

K buddy. I'd tell you to shut the fuck up about what you don't know but that not your game.

The point is that many places don't have nor are they attractive to billionaires yet there is not stock of housing for working people to afford.

Everyone is always moving the piñata but nobody is taking a swing.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

Yeah, I know nothing about places where local workers can’t afford to live. Which is why my high school teachers commuted an hour and a half, and local firefighters/emts often lived 2 hrs away.

you’ll still be a dipshit that thinks your problems are unique and keep advocating failed solutions because yer a dipshit. Time to exit this circle jerk

[Foggy_Goggles]

Actually just about the opposite, but you act won't let you ever come close to agreeing with me.

I think the challenges are the opposite of unique. That why I'm involved in rallying against the "let's build a couple hundred really expending subsidized housing units and then go to an early happy hour and give each other high 5 and bang back some pinot gri" attitude.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[alpinevibes]

What the Upper Roaring Fork Valley wants to do with their tax revenue is not my business. But to hold it up as an example how its working seems like a bit of a stretch.

Personally, I don't want to live in subsided housing and I don't want that to be the norm for the community I've lived in for 30 years. I'd like the conversation to consider the alternatives.

Send the bill to the consumer in the form of higher prices. That's what the construction industry does. Invest in infrastructure. Make commuting cool again. Pay teachers and other important civil servants 2x what they make. Let the for profit sector sink or swim.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

Fred, Foggy - the reality here is that there's no possible way to exist long-term here as a working person without subsidized housing (barring family money, obv) or one of the few remaining cheap LTR. That's not to say any of us are entitled to living here or deserve it or deserve to "win" a lottery. And that's not to say any of us should expect to live out our lives here. But: the broader reality is that the economy, community and resort aspects need workers - both hourly and salaried. The economy, community and resort wants/needs workers to live in proximity to their jobs. For it that all to work and for the town/resort to retain its character, feel and attraction to certain constituents (ie not become Mountain Village, Mount CB or Keystone): the community needs to house a noticeable portion of it's own workers.

For the whole thing to work, workers need to buy in and accept the options: if an expensive rental/roommate situation doesn't work or a somewhat-compromised deed restricted housing option doesn't work then I guess you pack up and move. I get that the AltaSnob's of the world will say that everyone should just live 1-2hrs away, where it's cheap, and commute [environmental footprint aside], but neither the employees themselves nor the employers want that. Those living situations and commutes continue to be a major part of the service industry/hourly base in this type of community, but it's not a broad solution for all the needs of the community. Even living 20-45min away isn't a affordable or realistic option, here, for most working people now in 2023.

I'd love to see "essential workers" here be paid more, but around here that's not going to move the needle for housing and remove the solution of "affordable" projects as the means to accomplish it. I work at a school - I'm a bus driver; my wife's a PT: we're right in the middle of this. Again: no one is entitled to anything here, but economy wants things to work a certain way and 40+ years ago, our community voted to start taking a small slice from the [mostly wealthy] free market home sellers and using that money to build housing. I guess that strikes Fred as sOciAliSm, but he himself braggs about scamming rich pricks to pay for his van/weed/sexcapade life. Does anyone here really oppose taking a small fraction from the 1% - Fred certainly doesn't? Thus, are Fred's business practices really any different than a community deciding to tax those same folks to benefit the community at a broader level.

[byates1]

Question for you, can you spot the difference between these two places?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...80700722_zpid/

Yeah, the 84k one is in much better shape.

[Foggy_Goggles]

We are saying the same thing. WP isn't Aspen and Granby isn't Carbondale.

We have an option to do it differently but we just put the blinders on and only consider the Aspen Model.

Everyone is wired differently and entirely to their own opinions. I just try and not paint with a broad brush.

I'm working on a kitchen remodel for a teacher and a heavy equipment mechanic. These are the type of people i enjoy being around. I got my fingers crossed that in 20 years. the option for the working class isn't subsidized for GTFO.



Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[liv2ski]

I was bored and looked at rental pricing in coastal San Diego today. Holy shit, everything has gone up a bunch since I looked a year ago. How do working people afford $5k-$7k a month for rent. Mind blown.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Yeah, the 84k one is in much better shape.

That's not it and you know it.

People want to live in Bozeman for things they can't get in Jordan. This isn't limited to the BZN, and it's been going on forever. I'd like to live in Malibu, but I can't afford it, so I don't.

The only way this is going to change is when we start taxing the shit out of wealthy people so they can't afford 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th homes in places they like to play a few days a year in. But the economy will change with that, we've built communities that depend on recreation dollars, once that revenue source goes away, a lot of other things are, too. Those boarded up downtowns in "real" Montana happened because the AG and railroad economies stopped being viable 75 years ago.

[Skistack]

The only way this is going to change is when we start taxing the shit out of wealthy people so they can't afford 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th homes in places they like to play a few days a year in. But the economy will change with that, we've built communities that depend on recreation dollars, once that revenue source goes away, a lot of other things are, too. Those boarded up downtowns in "real" Montana happened because the AG and railroad economies stopped being viable 75 years ago.

Impossible to tax the wealthy out of these towns.

Raising funds for workforce housing should be the easy part. If a STR property is being operated as a commercial business tax it as such. Add a property tax premium to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th homes not occupied by a local resident for most of the year. Issue bonds against that stream of income.

The hard part is getting that workforce housing built for all the reasons that have been discussed.

[fastfred]

I was bored and looked at rental pricing in coastal San Diego today. Holy shit, everything has gone up a bunch since I looked a year ago. How do working people afford $5k-$7k a month for rent. Mind blown.

it doesn't work eventually it all crashes down

it's not working but everyone is pretending it does
why do you think this country is full of so many angry people right now


I mean if you have a combined income of over 250k it might work

[yeahman]

I mean if you have a combined income of over 250k it might work

Kids are starting jobs right out of college at higher salaries than I ever made.

[Core Shot]

For resort towns I like the idea of extreme real estate taxation. Around here you get $100k shaved off your tax valuation if you show you live there.

Crank that up to $500k and double the tax rate on the rich second third and fourth homoners and we might get somewhere

[oldnew_guy]

Kids are starting jobs right out of college at higher salaries than I ever made.

Inflation adjusted?

[byates1]

That's not it and you know it.

People want to live in Bozeman for things they can't get in Jordan. This isn't limited to the BZN, and it's been going on forever. I'd like to live in Malibu, but I can't afford it, so I don't.

The only way this is going to change is when we start taxing the shit out of wealthy people so they can't afford 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th homes in places they like to play a few days a year in. But the economy will change with that, we've built communities that depend on recreation dollars, once that revenue source goes away, a lot of other things are, too. Those boarded up downtowns in "real" Montana happened because the AG and railroad economies stopped being viable 75 years ago.

Yeah I know. It's just patently redic someone would pay 570k for that. It's fine. It'll just become Jackson north, in 20 yrs the avg home will be 3/4 M. Cute little bozone. Every single worker will be a 1.5 hr bus ride one way. Like SV. They bus them in from twin.

[fastfred]

LOL

https://www.aspendailynews.com/opini...2bd8652b1.html

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Entitlement, feigned ignorance, whataboutism, elitism, whining, what else am I missing in that article?

[mcphee]

“I solely relied on the word of my landlord, never really read the official requirements, and never called APCHA for clarifications. I’m now suicidal because of a note left on my door. But I look cute in this hat.”

[californiagrown]

Entitlement, feigned ignorance, whataboutism, elitism, whining, what else am I missing in that article?

That hat. That fucking hipster coachella hat.



Edit: ha! mcphee beat me to the hat callout.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I mean obviously she pissed of the wrong people. "Everyone else is breaking the rules, why can't I?"

I had a friend get in on the Aspen affordable housing train in the late 90s. I didn't understand it then.

Nothing will make you question your life choices than having to bounce from the party and miss AM bong rips 'cause you gotta make rent.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[fastfred]

tgr delivers thanks gentlemen
haveing a shitty morning and your comments brighten my day

[fatnslow]

Is this a reskinned article from The Onion or such spoof ? Nobody is so stupid and vapid enough to actually pen this for public consumption. Obviously her highly leveraged education didn't teach common sense.

[AdironRider]

While I could not care less about someone losing their "forever" apartment of only a few months, she at least hits the nail by calling out the bullshit income manipulation every affordable resident I know of has done.

But yeah, the hat. Hard to sympathize.

[Danno]

A forever home is a 2 br rental unit? And based on that article, her income when she moved in was $37K. In Aspen. WTF does she do for a living, part time instagram influencer?